"Official" I hate Otis thread

[damo[23]]

so if we try to improve in the future, will our only tradeable assets be hedo that has any value?

Depends on who we pick up on FA, who we resign, if we make any small trades, big trades, what we get with the MLE, what contracts these people are on etc...

[lovehoops01]

I don't know why you're all so surprised. He had been telling you all along that there probably wasn't going to be a deal that he could work out.

This is an example where the cart drives the horse. You guys expected a trade -- even though all the execs and most of the national media were telling you it was unlikely -- but little Internet rumors and hopes have you believing a deal was going to get done so you're more disappointed than you would have been otherwise.

It would have been really nice to get a power forward and the Magic will need one. But he apparently hasn't worked for enough other teams to get the "insiders'' deals that the Lakers, Spurs and Celtics got. The three-way between the Cavs, Bulls and Sonics was interesting. Cleveland is the only team that stands a chance at getting better this season because of it.

[richboy]

so if we try to improve in the future, will our only tradeable assets be hedo that has any value?

Yeah the only way this team improves now is through a Hedo trade most likely. Getting a steal in the draft or finding a steal in free agency with the MLE.

[laVal03]

I think even something as small as a Primo Brezec for Bogans would have worked.....salaries about identical so it doesn't handcuff us but at least we get a big body and free up time for Otis' coveted JJ

not sure if Detroit would have done it b/c bogans isnt expiring(well could be if he opts out) but he is better than juan dixon imo

don't think detroit really did it b/c juan is expiring anyway, figured they would take a shot since they have no time for primo

oh well its over time to get past it just thinking there were other ways to get a big body besides handcuffing us financially

[theTHIEF]

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Why are you defeding Otis - you know it was totally ignorant not to make a move with expirings and keeping Garrity, Arroyo, etc. - you know those players are no good.

A deal could have been done dumping those two and including a first round pick or JJ or both.

A true PF would have put us in contention - you are too smart not to know that and you know the expirings are now worthless to us - you have a pretty high bball IQ - why are you defending Otis?

im not necessarily defending Otis, i'm just smart enough to know how the majority of this stuff works, and i have the ability to look at things from nearly all angles. which is why you rarely see me overreact, like a lot of people on here...

Otis (and nearly all other GM's on here) gets way too much negative attention. Frankly the guy doesn't deserve it. He hasnt done much to warrant the amount of hate in my book, with only 2 real seasons under his belt, there havent been that many things to complain about...last season we had a plan to land a big free agent, little did we know that we did literally nothing last season so we could sign Rashard to the giant deal, so that makes senses...

my disappointment this year is that we arent going to be doing that this off season, we may make a trade, but it wont be for someone big time, so a small-medium deal today could have yielding us a piece or two, which no matter what Otis says would have helped us in the playoffs and could help us in the off season as long as the contracts were not astronomical...

Thomas would not have been the ideal piece, i dont care what ANY of you on this message board say, Thomas would not get it done...yes, he would be a great addition this year, and he's expiring...so i could have gone either way...but seriously, DO YOU SEE HOW MUCH THE SPURS HAD TO PAY TO GET HIM? he's not worth that much to us...so quit being so damn blinded with hate that you dont take the time to sit down and understand things...

The Spurs will benefit from this because they are going to the WCF and probably the finals, and he will help bring in the veteran help they need for such a thing...plus Thomas wanted to play for them...

and as for all the other things mentioned, no one knows what was available, what actually had legs and what teams would actually give us for our players, whatever it was Otis was shopping...

I am upset a little though, because I know that several deals were out there which would have seen us drop Arroyo and Garrity for another rotation player and we didnt take them, for whatever reason...and it's sad...loyalty is a mother f***er...

[mattyBoi]

No offense thief you seem like a cool guy and ive for the most part usually agree with what you say but your last paragraph says it all.

And that paragraph should be the eye opener.

We didnt make the deals...Not because they werent there...But instead because of money.

And this is partly otis's fault for handicapping the team with rashards contract and jameers deal as well as some other moves...And also partly ownerships fault for not doing whatever it takes to win.

And all of this accumalated should make a magic fan very unhappy and at the very least, should make them question Otis's "master plan"

Im pretty much on the same page as you on everything else though.

[theTHIEF]

but you dont know for what reasons we didnt make deals...i mean, take that Brad Miller deal for example...the talent would have been great if it was Garcia and Miller as we thought (which is laughable to me now, im not going to call anyone out, or say that the person i know, might know more, which is sad because my person knows very little, and they said that they didnt think it was close to being possible...anyway)... could you imagine being stuck in a roster stalemate? right now we might be riding the razor blade financially, but we arent dead in the water yet...dont get me wrong, the impulse buyer in me says "DO THAT DEAL OTIS!" but the logical, college educated basketball guy in me knows that it wasnt the best move...

when I heard that we could have made a huge shakeup possibly involving Artest, I was like wow, Hedo and crap for Artest, I'd do that more over than the Miller/Garcia deal...regardless of being able to resign Artest or not, just for the sheer talent swap...

but, there are reasons why things are done and not done...last year there were tons of complaints, and Otis did have a plan and we have a 34-22 record...hopefully we have a good plan for June...because come June I will come unglued if dont make solid moves and if we dont draft a REAL prospect...

my eyes are wide open, which is why I am a little frustrated this year, and why I wasnt lat year...I think that I would have still liked to take on a not so great contract, gone over the cap and just settled for adding an MLE guy...but, we'll have to wait and see what happens...

[theTHIEF]

also...if there was anything going on with Settle outside of the Thomas thing, the Sonics passed on it once they found out they could deal Wally and West for better expirings...so that is most likely going to be the reason why there were no Wilcox deals...they got the money the needed and were able to keep a valuable big man...

[DontPushMe]

Im dissapointed, but not suprised. If we had a good gm something would have been done, but we dont, we have a mumbling moron running our team. I said it earlier, he should have been fired at 3:01 when the deadline passed with no moves. He completely blew a chance to improve our team, the man clearly lacks the vision necessary to build a championship team.

[theTHIEF]

what "chance" was that?

[Shishnizzle]

I'm not that upset that we did'nt do anything. If it were up to me and it was about money and we had the opportunity to land Wilcox. I would have been fine with doing that and not using the mle in the summer, but it depends on what they wanted in any of these deals. Nobody here really knows exactly what these other teams we were working with was asking. You can look at what the Spurs gave up for Thomas and then you have an idea what they wanted for Wilcox. I would'nt have had a problem with loosing our draft pick because it's not like it's going to be a top 25 pick. Also I like JJ but he is'nt playing so I would'nt have had a problem loosing him. Out of our expirings I would'nt have wanted to loose Dooling or evans and I would have been fine with taking on one of thier point guards, so if all of those conditions were met then we made a mistake. If the deal would have went down like that we would'nt have been able to use the mle because of luxery tax and we would'nt have had a draft pick that was worth anythin, but Tony would be coming back healthy. We would be resigning Mo and Dooling and maybe Fran comes over and the team would have been set. I would have been happy with that. Now we have all the same conditions but we use the Mle and I'm not sure we can add a player of Wilcox's caliber, we have a draft pick that probally won't contribute for a couple years if at all, and JJ is still riding the pine. Unless for some unknown reason Otis feels it's better to pull the trigger on a deal in the summer.

[mattyBoi]

Yeh i agree we really didnt know EVERYTHING that was going on but at least we do know that it was in some way, over money.

The ultimatum im seeing right now, that is being presented to Otis is...Go over the cap and forget about using the MLE...Or let the contracts expire and use the MLE.

Which option will be better? Time will tell.

What i do blame otis for however is getting us into this position in the first place.

I dont blame him for not making a move...That obviously lays on the ownership.

[lovehoops01]

Yeh i agree we really didnt know EVERYTHING that was going on but at least we do know that it was in some way, over money.

The ultimatum im seeing right now, that is being presented to Otis is...Go over the cap and forget about using the MLE...Or let the contracts expire and use the MLE.

Which option will be better? Time will tell.

What i do blame otis for however is getting us into this position in the first place.

I dont blame him for not making a move...That obviously lays on the ownership.

The only way he can use the MLE is to be over the cap. The team doesn't get the MLE if it isn't over the cap. They will be over the cap even once the contracts expire.

[Cammo101]

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My beef isn't that we didn't get our coveted big man, I can't speak for the others, its that we didn't improve the starting roster. I was always in favor of getting a decent sg because its easier to obtain, but I would have been happy still to get a starting pf just the same. The point for me is that we failed to use our assets when they were at their maximum value, when we need at least two more starters. Seeing some of the deals this year, I believe we could have gotten something that would have improved our team. Being infatuated with a fourth string sg is not a good enough reason to not do a deal imo. I'm not calling for Otis' head however, but I still believe it was a bungle.

I gt your point, but who exactly are these players you wanted? There were very few actual players on the market today, if Haslem, Miller, Miller, and Miller (awesome) were all really not on the market, then who is this player everyone wanted? There was no one out there outside of the names I mentioned worth getting IMO.

[Cammo101]

People keep talking about Otis blowing this huge chance to improve, but who was out there to get? We are now hearing that Brad, Andre, and Mike Miller were not really on the market. Same goes with Haslem. The biggest name moved was Drew Gooden (unless you count Ben terrible contract Wallace). So again I ask, who exactly is it we were supposed to get that was going to suddenly make us title contenders? If you don't have an answer, then you have no right to be giving Otis crap.

[drsd]

Wow. We're still here!

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[Furinkazan]

(picture)

Wow. We're still here!

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........at the end of the bench

[Bensational]

i think everyone is well within their right to feel a little annoyed that we've just lost out on assets. we held on to them for too long. but, i don't think they were ever going to bring us a big name player, so i'm not overly worried.

my concern now lies in how do we best address our needs this offseason? as surflawyer posted in another thread, we'll have:

Nelson, Dooling
Bogans, JJ, ________
Hedo, ________
Lewis, Battie, Gortat
Howard, Foyle

3 areas that need to be addressed: PF, SG, PG. one MLE. one draft pick. limited assets that are tradeable. and most importantly, will Otis have the balls to part with someone if the chance comes around??

[mattyBoi]

i think everyone is well within their right to feel a little annoyed that we've just lost out on assets. we held on to them for too long. but, i don't think they were ever going to bring us a big name player, so i'm not overly worried.

my concern now lies in how do we best address our needs this offseason? as surflawyer posted in another thread, we'll have:

Nelson, Dooling
Bogans, JJ, ________
Hedo, ________
Lewis, Battie, Gortat
Howard, Foyle

3 areas that need to be addressed: PF, SG, PG. one MLE. one draft pick. limited assets that are tradeable. and most importantly, will Otis have the balls to part with someone if the chance comes around??

Great points

IMO i see us filling the SG spot with the MLE.

I see us drafting a PG

And i also see us trying to pick up a big guy with the Vets min. Theo Ratliff?

As far as trades during the offseason...I really dont think so.

[mhectorgato]

(picture)

Wow. We're still here!

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Nicely done.