"Official" I hate Otis thread

magicfan4life05 · Post #261 » by **magicfan4life05** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:28 pm

i think what happened was he asked management for permission and they said only if it will significantly improve you this, can you guarantee that...and otis probably said he doesnt know BUT it will improve us so then the higher ups said no...

aleZ · Post #262 » by **aleZ** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:53 pm

I can see Otis laughing hard at this thread.

And Pat, too

CourtsideTV · Post #263 » by **CourtsideTV** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:35 pm

Magicfan94 · Post #264 » by **Magicfan94** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:12 pm

Cammo101 wrote:People keep talking about Otis blowing this huge chance to improve, but who was out there to get? We are now hearing that Brad, Andre, and Mike Miller were not really on the market. Same goes with Haslem. The biggest name moved was Drew Gooden (unless you count Ben terrible contract Wallace). So again I ask, who exactly is it we were supposed to get that was going to suddenly make us title contenders? If you don't have an answer, then you have no right to be giving Otis crap.

My point exactly.

There really wasn't much out there. And every trade deadline we get to the same point. People overvaluing expiring contracts, there aren't as many deals or demand for such deals as people think.

The teams that mades moves were either

1) Old and needed pieces, in which case they risked their future(Dallas, Phoenix)

2) Contenders that vets who want a ring would go to (Lakers, Spurs)

3) Teams willing to risk their future ala Miami Heat and take on massive contracts of aging veterens (Cavs)

There wasn't much out there. At least nothing that wouldn't have cost us Turk or 2 future 1st rounders.

You don't make a trade for the mere sake of making one if the market is thin and you've gotten by pretty well with what you have, why trade just to trade? We did that 3 years ago to get Doug Christie and it screwed the team up.

I trust Otis and where he is going. The team has improved DRASTICALLY the last three years under his watch. Just because he elects not to pull a deal doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

Optimus_Steel · Post #265 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:27 pm

CourtsideTV wrote:(picture)

LOL i love that.

Cammo101 · Post #266 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:22 pm

mattyBoi wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Great points

IMO i see us filling the SG spot with the MLE.

I see us drafting a PG

And i also see us trying to pick up a big guy with the Vets min. Theo Ratliff?

As far as trades during the offseason...I really dont think so.

I don't really see a PG where we are picking. I think Otis is fine with our PG's and will draft a SG or big man and sign with the MLE whichever of those 2 he does not draft. Childress and DJ White for example.

Post #267 » by **craig01** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Damn, 23 pages.

theTHIEF · Post #268 » by **theTHIEF** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:21 pm

alright, i'm reluctant to post this...for the sole purpose i feel that it may force the board to overload and further bash Otis...even though I'm cool with not taking this deal if the facts are correct...

supposedly Portland offered Przybilla/Blake for Garrity/Arroyo/Bogans or JJ and a 1st rounder...

spinedoc · Post #269 » by **spinedoc** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:25 pm

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I gt your point, but who exactly are these players you wanted? There were very few actual players on the market today, if Haslem, Miller, Miller, and Miller (awesome) were all really not on the market, then who is this player everyone wanted? There was no one out there outside of the names I mentioned worth getting IMO.

I guess we will never know the answer to that, but let me turn it around on you a little. Do you honestly feel that we couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an upgrade at our three weakest positions of pf, sg, and pg? I'm not in the camp of pf or bust. I at least wanted to upgrade a starting position, any of those three would have been ok by me. I can give you a ton of names that I like and that have been rumored to be leaving this year, but I doubt that helps in the pursuasion.

Using assets when they are at your disposal is the primary issue here, even if it was for Ben Wallace and something nice that they were obviously wanting to include to help fill another hole would have been acceptable. That isn't my first choice btw, just a name of someone who has in fact been traded. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have gotten something out there that would have worked well for us.

knappy · Post #270 » by **knappy** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:30 pm

Cammo101 wrote:People keep talking about Otis blowing this huge chance to improve, but who was out there to get? We are now hearing that Brad, Andre, and Mike Miller were not really on the market. Same goes with Haslem. The biggest name moved was Drew Gooden (unless you count Ben terrible contract Wallace). So again I ask, who exactly is it we were supposed to get that was going to suddenly make us title contenders? If you don't have an answer, then you have no right to be giving Otis crap.

Wilcox was out there and could have been picked up and it puts us in contention with Dwight. I hate to say it but a guy like Wilcox would have given us a chance to compete with any other team in the league - with BCook or Rashard trying to stop another team defensively - we exit in the 2nd round of the playoffs as Howard has no help.

mhectorgato · Post #271 » by **mhectorgato** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:34 pm

spinedoc wrote:I guess we will never know the answer to that, but let me turn it around on you a little. Do you honestly feel that we couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an upgrade at our three weakest positions of pf, sg, and pg? I'm not in the camp of pf or bust. I at least wanted to upgrade a starting position, any of those three would have been ok by me. I can give you a ton of names that I like and that have been rumored to be leaving this year, but I doubt that helps in the pursuasion.

Using assets when they are at your disposal is the primary issue here, even if it was for Ben Wallace and something nice that they were obviously wanting to include to help fill another hole would have been acceptable. That isn't my first choice btw, just a name of someone who has in fact been traded. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have gotten something out there that would have worked well for us.

Agreed.

One of the main reasons from my defense of the Ra$hard over paying was that we had a narrow window of opportunity. Yes we overpaid, but we'd not have the cap space in the future with - at the minimum - Dwight's max extension kicking in. So Oti$ did what he felt he needed to get the best available FA.

Did Otis do what he needed to to advantage of this opportunity?

When is the next time we'll have an opportunity like this?

What do we effectively have available to us to improve the team in the near future?

knappy · Post #272 » by **knappy** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:35 pm

aleZ wrote:I can see Otis laughing hard at this thread.

And Pat, too

I don't think Otis is laughing at all - I think he is seriously concerned and I think there will be articles where Otis will try and defend himself - he takes his job seriously and he wants to be smart with what he does, but he blew some deals before - that happens - you can't do everything right, but letting these expiring contracts expire and not getting a PF - that you could have gotten is inexcusable - he really screwed up.

He is still 10 times better than BHill, make that 5 times better - he used to be 100 - but his stock is dropping as fast as Pat Garritys stock - he really screwed up big time not making a move here and moving Garrity, Arroyo and a pick or JJ for Wilcox.

JJ could be good, but I'll never know with him sitting on the bench and I'd rather have a starting PF then possibly the best shooter ever glued to the bench.

knappy · Post #273 » by **knappy** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:37 pm

thEthIEf wrote:alright, i'm reluctant to post this...for the sole purpose i feel that it may force the board to overload and further bash Otis...even though I'm cool with not taking this deal if the facts are correct...

supposedly Portland offered Przybilla/Blake for Garrity/Arroyo/Bogans or JJ and a 1st rounder...

Can you defend not making that move in anyway?

mhectorgato · Post #274 » by **mhectorgato** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:39 pm

knappy wrote:Can you defend not making that move in anyway?

thEthIEf wrote:even though I'm cool with not taking this deal if the facts are correct...

theTHIEF · Post #275 » by **theTHIEF** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:43 pm

Przybilla is overpaid and locked up for 3 more seasons after this one. in 2011 your payroll would be roughly $54m between 4 players (Shard, Howard, Nelson and Przybilla)...He would have helped though, I agree and he is young enough I agree. Blake was supposedly put into the deal because Otis was worried about money in the off season etc. etc. I think Jack was also being talked about prior to Blake but the $$$ had Otis nervous. They were originally asking for Hedo and then switched to expirings and were basically going to dump Pryz and Blake to make room, they are very antsy to get a PG or PF in the draft this year...

based on what i was told...which could or could not be gospel...but is probably as close to true as i could get...

mhectorgato · Post #276 » by **mhectorgato** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:51 pm

thEthIEf wrote:Przybilla is overpaid and locked up for 3 more seasons after this one. in 2011 your payroll would be roughly $54m between 4 players (Shard, Howard, Nelson and Przybilla)...He would have helped though, I agree and he is young enough I agree. Blake was supposedly put into the deal because Otis was worried about money in the off season etc. etc. I think Jack was also being talked about prior to Blake but the $$$ had Otis nervous. They were originally asking for Hedo and then switched to expirings and were basically going to dump Pryz and Blake to make room, they are very antsy to get a PG or PF in the draft this year...

based on what i was told...which could or could not be gospel...but is probably as close to true as i could get...

According to Hoopshype Joel is making MLE money.

$5,762,575
$6,310,150
$6,857,725
$7,405,300 (player opt).

(LOL Francis is still listed at MAX money)

aleZ · Post #277 » by **aleZ** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:03 pm

knappy wrote:JJ could be good, but I'll never know with him sitting on the bench and I'd rather have a starting PF then possibly the best shooter ever glued to the bench.

Kinda OT but the JJ situation is getting ridiculous: either Stan and Otis are butting heads over this, or JJ truly sucks, so why they didn't trade him? Damn, it's one of those typical Magic mysteries, something nobody can really explain. It's not like he's got Wade or J.Rich ahead of him :dontknow:

Optimus_Steel · Post #278 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:07 pm

aleZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Kinda OT but the JJ situation is getting ridiculous: either Stan and Otis are butting heads over this, or JJ truly sucks, so why they didn't trade him? Damn, it's one of those typical Magic mysteries, something nobody can really explain. It's not like he's got Wade or J.Rich ahead of him

Or Keith Bogans.

Cammo101 · Post #279 » by **Cammo101** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:28 pm

spinedoc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I guess we will never know the answer to that, but let me turn it around on you a little. Do you honestly feel that we couldn't have gotten anyone that would have been an upgrade at our three weakest positions of pf, sg, and pg? I'm not in the camp of pf or bust. I at least wanted to upgrade a starting position, any of those three would have been ok by me. I can give you a ton of names that I like and that have been rumored to be leaving this year, but I doubt that helps in the pursuasion.

Using assets when they are at your disposal is the primary issue here, even if it was for Ben Wallace and something nice that they were obviously wanting to include to help fill another hole would have been acceptable. That isn't my first choice btw, just a name of someone who has in fact been traded. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have gotten something out there that would have worked well for us.

I think there will be better options in the off season to fill these holes. So, IMO, the only reason to make a trade is if we feel it would make us a title contender.

mhectorgato · Post #280 » by **mhectorgato** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:34 pm

Cammo101 wrote:I think there will be better options in the off season to fill these holes. So, IMO, the only reason to make a trade is if we feel it would make us a title contender.

Which Magic player are we going to trade? JJ? Hedo? A S&T with our expired contracts?

How many options can be utilized with just the MLE?