OT: Seattle's Rebuilding Process

[LUKE23]

I mentioned this in another thread, but thought I would get some discussion on a new one. Everyone know's Seattle is in danger of relocating, but does anyone else agree they have done a great job of changing the future of their franchise in one season?

Through their moves, they are now sitting with a Durant/Green duo, very promising, along with six first round picks in the next three years, thirteen picks overall in the next three years. On top of that, they have shedded their only remaining bad contracts (no one on team makes over $6.5M a year, and they are sitting at a boatload of cap room after next season), and their pick this year has a good chance to be in the top five.

Outside of the team relocating, I would kill to be in Seattle's position. Two nice young players, a ton of picks to make moves, and no contracts to burden them in the future.

[ReasonablySober]

If they draft well and don't blow money in free agency just for the sake of spending it, they should be set-up well.

[barbados73]

Can we have the Sonics move to Milwaukee so the Bucks can move?? That would be nice.

[msiris]

I mentioned this in another thread, but thought I would get some discussion on a new one. Everyone know's Seattle is in danger of relocating, but does anyone else agree they have done a great job of changing the future of their franchise in one season?

Through their moves, they are now sitting with a Durant/Green duo, very promising, along with six first round picks in the next three years, thirteen picks overall in the next three years. On top of that, they have shedded their only remaining bad contracts (no one on team makes over $6.5M a year, and they are sitting at a boatload of cap room after next season), and their pick this year has a good chance to be in the top five.

Outside of the team relocating, I would kill to be in Seattle's position. Two nice young players, a ton of picks to make moves, and no contracts to burden them in the future.

Herbie stand up and take notice.

[LUKE23]

You could parallel Milwaukee's situation with Seattle as well. Two promising young players (Yi/Bogut), an overpaid SG (Wally and Redd). Outside of the fact that Simmons/Gadzuric's deals are worse than any Seattle got rid of, I still think the Bucks could have done something similar. Redd has more trade value than Wally, IMO.

But instead, we just keep all of our crap.

[showtimesam]

If I'm the GM of the bucks, I'm blowing things up to do something similar, although maybe getting more players rather than picks.

I'll be very open to dealing mo and/or redd, especially to any teams willing to take on Bobby/Gadz.

I'll take young guys, draft picks, or team players that can D it up.

I'd also look to trade CV for Kyle Lowry (if Mo's dealt and the bucks don't feel they have a pg they'd like more in the draft)

Basically, I want whoever our new GM is to blow things up, and build this team RIGHT around Bogut and Yi.

I'm willing to be patient and wait a year or two while the team develops, although In the East I think the bucks could rebuild things very quickly.

[LUKE23]

If I'm the GM of the bucks, I'm blowing things up to do something similar, although maybe getting more players rather than picks.

I'll be very open to dealing mo and/or redd, especially to any teams willing to take on Bobby/Gadz.

I'll take young guys, draft picks, or team players that can D it up.

If Mo's dealt, I'd also look to trade CV for Kyle Lowry, if Mo's dealt and the bucks don't feel they have a pg they'd like more in the draft.

Basically, I want whoever our new GM is to blow things up, and build this team RIGHT around Bogut and Yi.

I'm willing to be patient and wait a year or two while the team develops, although In the East I think the bucks could rebuild things very quickly.

Couldn't agree more. I think Kohl's biggest problem is that he's unwilling to blow it up and experience those "down" seasons where the team has no hope to contend. Problem is, the team doesn't have any hope to contend now AND it's burdened with garbage contracts.

At this point, whether it guarantees success or not, building around Yi/Bogut is the way to go. Go young, draft well, and don't give out any garbage deals (Simmons, Gadz).

But I know I'm only dreaming, so I digress...

[showtimesam]

Yeah I hope it isn't a dream, I guess we'll see.

The thing I'm surprised is, I'd think Kohl would love cut to all this salary that he has tied up in garbage even if it meant he had to get rid of the backcourt he loves so much.

Basically, he can easily get the wins ( or lack there of) they're getting now, build a solid core of smart young talent, and save money all at once. Hopefully he'll wise up and blow things up over the summer.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

The only thing required for Seattle's rebuild to go smoothly was for them to commit to a strategy, and they did. Somebody over there said "we're building around Durant," and then all the other moves were easy decisions.

The difference over here is that our plan is "We're building around Redd and Mo, while developing Bogut and making sure Yi gets his minutes, and we're also going to make sure CV is an untouchable piece of our core, blah blah blah."

I've been asking for one full year now for the Bucks to pick a plan. If you build around Redd, you need to give him all-stars to play with. Not guys who will be all-stars in four or five years. If you build aroudn Bogut/Yi, you need to clear away the guys who will prevent them from getting touches, and start hoarding lotto picks.

A tough choice needs to be made just once, and then all the subsequent moves are no-brainers.

[showtimesam]

One thing I don't get...
If Kohl is going to fire LH, why not just do it now?

I guess there could be someone currently unavailable that he's targeting, but it would make sense to let the GM evaluate the current players the rest of the season, meet with them, and get a feel for what he wants to do over the offseason.

[LUKE23]

The only thing required for Seattle's rebuild to go smoothly was for them to commit to a strategy, and they did. Somebody over there said "we're building around Durant," and then all the other moves were easy decisions.

The difference over here is that our plan is "We're building around Redd and Mo, while developing Bogut and making sure Yi gets his minutes, and we're also going to make sure CV is an untouchable piece of our core, blah blah blah."

I've been asking for one full year now for the Bucks to pick a plan. If you build around Redd, you need to give him all-stars to play with. Not guys who will be all-stars in four or five years. If you build aroudn Bogut/Yi, you need to clear away the guys who will prevent them from getting touches, and start hoarding lotto picks.

A tough choice needs to be made just once, and then all the subsequent moves are no-brainers.

Agreed, and I think landing more all-stars to play with Redd is way more unlikely that being able to land expirings/picks for Redd and other guys other than Yi/Bogut. I'm amazed that anyone in the organization thinks this current core of guys can contend, but that appears to be the case.

It's the worst situation to be in. No hope of ever being more than a .500 team and mired with long-term contracts. It needs to be scrapped, ASAP.

[LUKE23]

One thing I don't get...
If Kohl is going to fire LH, why not just do it now?

I guess there could be someone currently unavailable that he's targeting, but it would make sense to let the GM evaluate the current players the rest of the season, meet with them, and get a feel for what he wants to do over the offseason.

He should have done it well before the trading deadline if he knew he was going to block all moves. It got to the point where Kohl probably would have rejected any trade yesterday, just because he doesn't want Harris making any moves.

But Kohl and thinking ahead just do not go together.

[showtimesam]

-= original quote snipped =-



He should have done it well before the trading deadline if he knew he was going to block all moves. It got to the point where Kohl probably would have rejected any trade yesterday, just because he doesn't want Harris making any moves.

But Kohl and thinking ahead just do not go together.

Yeah this year has gone to waste. If Kohl had made the move on a GM (or extended Harris) over the offseason, they could have started correcting their mistakes now.

This deadline was a golden opportunity with so many teams in a scramble to add talent and some other teams with lots of expirings (miami, orlando).

Hopefully Redd, Mo, Gadz, Simmons and company finish the season very strong and help out their trade value so the bucks can have a productive offseason.

[DPGBucks]

I would love if the Bucks were in their position.
If the Sonics play their cards right they should be with the Blazers at the top of the West in the near future. Especially if they can nab up Rose, Jordan or possibly Thabeet this year. They're sitting pretty.

[InsideOut]

They are going about it the right way. Either be great or suck because hanging around .500 will get you nowhere. That is why I'll never understand teams making moves like bringing in a veteran to try and win 35 games and get the 8th seed.

I heard a stat on ESPN radio the other day that I thought was very interesting. After a great team flames out (think Bulls or Portland) it takes an average of EIGHT years before they can be considered a great team again. So think back to when the Bucks were last considered a great team (2000-01). Unfortunately this doesn't take into account Kohl being our owner so it could be more like EIGHTEEN years. It really is sad to think about that in over 20 years Kohl has managed to create one great team for a single season. The only thing that keeps him from owning the biggest loser over the past 20 season is the fact he took over a great team. Without that early team inflating his overall winning percentage he'd look like one of the biggest losers EVER.

[mnstinks]

Bogut/Yi seem to be as promising as Durant/Green.

Time will tell how they both build around them.

[MajorDad]

I like the seattle plan. at least they have a plan. i'd be curious to see their attendance figures of this year verses those when they had Allen and lewis. Are people coming out to see Durant and company knowing they will probably lose? I know one of the things Kohl fears about blowing up the team and starting from scratch is that the fans would no longer come to watch a young rebuilding team. But i think the opposite would be true. I think more fans would come out to see a rebuilding bucks team than the current one.

I was hoping the bucks would have been able to draft Durant or oden last year. however, I feared they would treat Durant or oden much the same way they treat YI and treated bogut his first two years. if yo u have a top 3 pick in a draft, you have to start centering your team around that player. They have to become the new #1 option. Milwaukee treats their young players like after thoughts.

I hate to say it but the Bucks are run very much like congress is. Seniority is given far too much importance over actual talent. it's time the Bucks started to cultivating the talent rather than giving more opportunities to mediocre veterans.

The Bucks are almost like having Strom Thurmond at PG and he just ain't going to change his ways for a young whipper snapper first term senator named Obama. it don't matter how muc h talent he's got. he's still a first termer. he should just sit back and watch while us veterans take over and play the game the way we think best.

I think Kohl has a plan to rebuild the Bucks. Kohl is not a stupid person. but I believe that plan is not going to start until this Summer. or at least I should say, I hope it starts this Summer. Kohl needs to start at the top with his house cleaning including himself. If he doesn't have confidence in harris, he needs to find somebody such as Larry Brown or Doug Collins or Riley or Kuptchek or Wayne Embry or Nelson or Parcels who knows how to run and build an NBA franchise. Kohl needs to find a new GM that will be able to take over and not need to go to Kohl and ask for permission. Kohl needs to set a budget and then give his GM free reign to manage that budget and the bucks personnel. Kohl needs to take a back seat.

A GM should als o have a vision of how the bucks will play and who should be the star. that's the GM's job, not the coach's job. The coach then implements that plan. if the coach has a different plan, then you get a new coach to implement the GM's plan. This pla n then goes down to the players. they either buy into the system, or they are sent packing. the same applies to the talent level of the players. Once a style of play is determined, you acquire players that can excell at that style of play. You can't win with a fast break style if you have a bunch of slow boats. You can't win in a half court attack if you have poor shooters. You need defensive oriented players as well. so on and so on.

You need to have a system, and players to be able to accomplish it. TO me, that's the GM's job. Wit h the bucks, it doesn't appear as if harris has made it clear wha t type of a system the bucks should be. it also appears as if Larry K wants to run a different type of offense than Kohl wants, and larry's players want to run a different type of style than larry wants. nobody is on the same page.

To me, I believe the reason san Antonio is so successful is not because their talent level is that much better than the rest of the league. the y win because their GM has a plan and system, their coach bought into that system and implements it, and the GM has acquired players that are well suited to implement that system. guys like Bowen and Howry excell as Spurs because they know what their role is. I believe kurt Thomas will also excell.


The Bucks have a lot of talent. but they don't have a plan, vision or system in place to utilize that talent. I'm sad to say I believe that is a GM's job. A GM should do more than just draft and trade players.

I hated Ted thomson's idea of zone blocking. But he stuck with it and acquired players who could zone block. He also brought in a coach to run a certain style of offense. When the players and favre started to buy into that system, they started to win.

it's obvious melvin likes a team that can hit. his teams in texas could laways hit and the brewers are becoming a long ball hitting machine. While the brewers may not have made the play-offs, it's very clear they are what melvin has designed them to be. And the brewers' owner has allowed melvin to build the brewers in the image he wants. We know it was Mr A who wooed and courted Suppan, but it was melvin who wanted him. it's almost like Mr A is working for melvin. it's like, tell me what you want, and I'll do my best to get it for you.

I'm sad to say I don't see that type of relationship between Kohl and harris. Harris is a smart exec. But he has never been on the same page with his coaches or his owner. that has to change. is it harris' fault? His coaches fault? or Kohl's'?

[shaolin34]

i agree that the seattle rebuilding plan is the right way to do things. i think everyone here is in agreement that we're either not making the playoffs, or squeaking in and getting bounced in the first round. if we need to suck for a couple of years in order to be great then so be it. capspace is important to the rebuilding process, but when you have capspace to use is very important as well. if i could, i would try to move redd, gadz, mo, and bell for picks and contracts that expire after the 2009/2010 season, so they can expire with simmons' 10+ mil. the point is i want as much capspace as possible for that offseason. here is a list of notable free agents after the 2009/10 season (some have player options for 2010/11 that will most likely not be excercised):

Lebron James
Dwayne Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Tyson Chandler
Amare Stoudamire
Ray Allen
Ben Wallace
Rip Hamilton
Jermaine O'neal
Joe Johnson
Tracy McGrady
Mike Miller
Manu Ginobli
Marcus Camby
Carlos Boozer
Mehmet Okur
Al Harrington
Michael Redd

that's an insanely deep free agent class, and i want as much capspace for the bucks to sign at least one of these guys. if we draft well and bogut/yi continue to develop, adding a difference maker in free agency can hopefully put us into contention.

[stevescheffler06]

I'm going to be honest with you. As a Sonics fan, it's difficult to get too excited about any moves they made. The cynic in me doesn't just see a rebuilding effort, but an effort to further alienate the team from the city by trading away nearly every asset that can actually play this season.

I agree though, that Presti is doing an inspired job of putting the Sonics in a position to be good for years to come.

On a similar note, as I've seen a couple on this thread mention the parallels between the two teams, I want to issue this warning.

The Bucks are only a sale (to outside investors) away from being the Sonics. For that reason, be aware that when you ask for Herb to sell the team (as we Sonics fans said about Howard Schultz), the new owners might not want the same things as you. We never thought a homegrown guy like Schultz would backdoor us like that.

Trust me, you don't want to see this team sold at their rock bottom. You could end up like me, screaming to anyone who'll listen to help save your team, and all you'll get is "Who cares? The team sucks anyway!"

[Badgerlander]

Seatle got the 5th pick in the draft this year for Ray Allen, so we should be able to do even better for Redd this year, right? Anyone? Yeah, I didn't think so...