Sixers @ Magic 2/22/08

[THFM]

Last night, we missed Reggie interior defense and rebouding. If Reggie was there we would have gotten way more offensive rebounds and the Magic wouldn't have gotten so many themselves.

[SendEm]

Every perimeter player in the NBA can guard Iggy. His offense never places anyone at a disadvantage.

Iggy's on ball defense has been just decent at best this season. He's by no means the stopper or very good defender he has been promoted as being in past seasons. Even in past seasons his defensive abilities were spoken about in the context of "potential." He was never an outstanding defender, just someone with all of the tools to be.

Well this is his fourth season and he still isn't an outstanding defensive player...It's time to officially readdress Iggy's defensive abilities as good at best on the ball, but excellent with gambling and playing the passing lanes. He can not be counted on to keep any good perimeter players under their average but he will do a good enough job to keep them at their average.

[Mik317]

Every perimeter player in the NBA can guard Iggy. His offense never places anyone at a disadvantage.

Iggy's on ball defense has been just decent at best this season. He's by no means the stopper or very good defender he has been promoted as being in past seasons. Even in past seasons his defensive abilities were spoken about in the context of "potential." He was never an outstanding defender, just someone with all of the tools to be.

Well this is his fourth season and he still isn't an outstanding defensive player...It's time to officially readdress Iggy's defensive abilities as good at best on the ball, but excellent with gambling and playing the passing lanes. He can not be counted on to keep any good perimeter players under their average but he will do a good enough job to keep them at their average.

Why can't he just be a really good d efender? You do realize that at best there are like 4 great defenders in this league? and even they get lit up. Raja Bell got pwned by Kobe ( and Shaq) yesterday, is he too a bad defender? Not to compare Iggy to Kobe but Kbobe himself said because he had to score like 40 for his team to win he couldn't play great defense any more but this year becuase he has other guys that can score/ or make it easier for him to score, he can save some energy for defense.

of course Kobe waaaay better than Iggy on defense BUT it's still a good point. SendEm not to call you out or anything but you do realize it's unfair to expect Iggy to be perfect at everything? The fact that he plays good defense and scores 20+ pts and stil distribute the ball is opretty damn impressive. I mean Lebron, himself is a pretty bad defender does that mean he too sucks? I just think you guy expectation set yourself up for disssapointment.

[MicrOLak3R]

It seemed like Raja did so well against Because Marions help defense so damn good. As for AI well he's a great 3rd option.

[STChaser]

I wasn't thrilled with Iguodala's defense last night either. It's embarrassing what Hedu does to him. But what struck me more was the fact that Sam has no shot against some of these bigger frontcourt players in the league such as Bynum and Howard. Fortunately, there aren't a whole lot of them but this team NEEDS a 5 or 4 with much more weight. Sam has no shot against the players who use their girth to unlodge him. I don't think this team will ever have a legit shot until we address this issue.

STChaser

[SendEm]

I wasn't thrilled with Iguodala's defense last night either. It's embarrassing what Hedu does to him. But what struck me more was the fact that Sam has no shot against some of these bigger frontcourt players in the league such as Bynum and Howard. Fortunately, there aren't a whole lot of them but this team NEEDS a 5 or 4 with much more weight. Sam has no shot against the players who use their girth to unlodge him. I don't think this team will ever have a legit shot until we address this issue.

STChaser

What you say about Dalembert is very true, although Dalembert can have his really good days defensively against those kinds of players. thought that Dalembert did a really good job against Howard in the previous meeting. But I take all of that and add it into consideration when it comes to what think of all the players on our team and what they are worth in terms of long term financial commitments.
1.The Sixers do not have a solid "foundation" type franchise player to build a CHIP team upon.
2.Andre Miller is too advanced in his career to continue to be the caliber of player that can contribute at this same level when the Sixers will have the correct kind of talent to contend. Additionally I haven't forgotten that Andre Miller is the kind of player that has traditionally been exposed in the playoffs for his inability to stretch the defense with his perimeter jump shot therefor ruining his teams chance of legitimately competing because his defender sags off of him leaving him wide open to hit jump shots from range.
3. As I look around the Sixers the only player besides Andre Miller, Dalembert and Iguodala that I see with legitimate NBA ability is Thad Young. If the Sixers only have 4 players with NBA caliber ability: 1 is far advanced in his career and his contract only has a season left, another is already signed to a long term deal, 1 is on his rookie contract and still developing and another is trying to be overpaid as the "star" of the team when in reality he is just another player. Where is the incentive to overpay Iguodala? We have a team with no real talent where its best player is a veteran PG with only one season left on his deal and it's second best player is a good player that is trying to be paid like a star because he recognizes that the team doesn't have surplus and could be willing to overpay to be supplied.

I would let Iguodala walk for a penny more than Josh Howard.

What I'm saying is that the Sixers might be better off starting completely fresh with Thad as a building block and building through the draft that way. I don't want this same team moving forward next year and beyond with Iguodala making $11.5 million being outplayed every night by the other team's best perimeter player who 3/4 of the time will be getting paid less. Having his contract the books will set a BAD precedent for resigning our young players and ANY of our players in the future.

[Mik317]

-= original quote snipped =-



What you say about Dalembert is very true, although Dalembert can have his really good days defensively against those kinds of players. thought that Dalembert did a really good job against Howard in the previous meeting. But I take all of that and add it into consideration when it comes to what think of all the players on our team and what they are worth in terms of long term financial commitments.
1.The Sixers do not have a solid "foundation" type franchise player to build a CHIP team upon.
2.Andre Miller is too advanced in his career to continue to be the caliber of player that can contribute at this same level when the Sixers will have the correct kind of talent to contend. Additionally I haven't forgotten that Andre Miller is the kind of player that has traditionally been exposed in the playoffs for his inability to stretch the defense with his perimeter jump shot therefor ruining his teams chance of legitimately competing because his defender sags off of him leaving him wide open to hit jump shots from range.
3. As I look around the Sixers the only player besides Andre Miller, Dalembert and Iguodala that I see with legitimate NBA ability is Thad Young. If the Sixers only have 4 players with NBA caliber ability: 1 is far advanced in his career and his contract only has a season left, another is already signed to a long term deal, 1 is on his rookie contract and still developing and another is trying to be overpaid as the "star" of the team when in reality he is just another player. Where is the incentive to overpay Iguodala? We have a team with no real talent where its best player is a veteran PG with only one season left on his deal and it's second best player is a good player that is trying to be paid like a star because he recognizes that the team doesn't have surplus and could be willing to overpay to be supplied.

I would let Iguodala walk for a penny more than Josh Howard.

What I'm saying is that the Sixers might be better off starting completely fresh with Thad as a building block and building through the draft that way. I don't want this same team moving forward next year and beyond with Iguodala making $11.5 million being outplayed every night by the other team's best perimeter player who 3/4 of the time will be getting paid less. Having his contract the books will set a BAD precedent for resigning our young players and ANY of our players in the future.

1. Iggy not going to get 11.5 mil, so drop it. We've been over this. 10mil is probally to amount you would pay for a guy of his talent. thus it's not over-payed.

2. To start over with Thad is un reasonable at this point. the amnagement is already losing sooo much mone, to blow up the team and get worse would be financial suicide.

3. Iggy doesn't get outplayed every night. It's funny that you

4. you also seem to forget that we had a franchise player for oh say 10 year in Iverson............did we get any CHIPS? no.............you know why?
it was because A.I had no help. Iggy at his current level is a piece worth having, for when we get that franchise guy again.


no one is saying we should over pay Iggy. No one is saying he is a superstar. only you are. but you can't read this can you? someone please quote this.

[underpressure]

Even if we re-sign Iguodala for 11.5 mio a year his contract would be at least bearable in contrast to Dalembert's one who OWES the Sixers the same amount of money and whose impact is not that big.

[SendEm]

Even if we re-sign Iguodala for 11.5 mio a year his contract would be at least bearable in contrast to Dalembert's one who OWES the Sixers the same amount of money and whose impact is not that big.

You see that method of thinking right there is the reason NOT to sign Iguodala for $11.5 per season like he was reportedly offered over the summer. What's to stop the next level guy from saying "If Iggy is worth $11.5 I'm atleast worth $8" and so on and so forth. Dalembert is overpaid BUT he is a big man. Their just aren't many 7 foot pro basketball players in the world who can legitimately start and compete in the NBA. 6'6" wing players are EVERYWHERE therefore decreasing Iggy's value.

But like I said earlier the same method od thinking that you are utilizing is the reason why I would not want Iggy signed for that amout because it then will throw your teams pay scale far out of wack as soon as a player comes along contributing close to what Iggy is contributing which is not hard to do. If a player is up for contract on the Sixers that is averaging 16 points and an okay amount of assists/rebounds for their position, we would then have a SERIOUS PROBLEM being that Iggy only averages 19 points making $11.5 per season...

That kind of foolishness is what happened to the Warriors with Mike Dunleavy and everyone on that team looking to get overpaid because of what he received. All of those players got traded away to destroy that culture.

[underpressure]

I seriously don't give a **** if there are many 7 footers or not. Even for big man standards, Dalembert is grossly overpaid. I would take a cheaper big man with arguably less skills at any time. You cannot solely overpay a big man just for the sake of having one. If there is no serious option the team has to invest wiser at other positions. Dalembert's sign has been and will be a joke.

As far as Iguodala is concerned I do agree that we sould not overpay him. If we can somehow stick at that proposed deal in the last offseason, the player and the organization have to be happy.

[SendEm]

I seriously don't give a **** if there are many 7 footers or not. Even for big man standards, Dalembert is grossly overpaid. I would take a cheaper big man with arguably less skills at any time. You cannot solely overpay a big man just for the sake of having one. If there is no serious option the team has to invest wiser at other positions. Dalembert's sign has been and will be a joke.

As far as Iguodala is concerned I do agree that we sould not overpay him. If we can somehow stick at that proposed deal in the last offseason, the player and the organization have to be happy.

Dalembert is by no means grossly overpaid for a big man, especially one that provides interior defense and can be penciled in for top 10 in the league in block shots EVERY year. It will be IMPOSSIBLE for you to prove that he is grossly overpaid ESPECIALLY when you throw out all players that are still on their first NBA contract. IMPOSSIBLE.

[underpressure]

Check out the stats before you claim that he has been in the top 10 every year. His defense has been lately a joke and quite frankly he is a bad team defender. As far as his offense is concerning he is a black hole in the offense. He tries to do fancy passes which he is not capable of and he cannot create his own shot. Actually, why I am justifying myself for my statements? Watch the games and you see what Dalembert's brings to the table. Lately, he has been TRASH.

[tk76]

Depending on who you call a center, Sam is about the 15th highest paid center in the league- which is about right for his production. He is also about in line with most of the other centers that get paid within 2M of him.

This is from a prev post:
There are 10 C (or F/C like Bosh,Duncan and Sheed) that make 13M+ (11 if you include Howard, who's extensions starts next year)

Sam makes 10.3M this year- about 14th for centers and 55th highest overall in the NBA. Here are the 12 centers who make in the ballpark of Sam (+/- 2M): I will )*the bargains

Lafrenz 12.3M
Ilgaskas 10.8M
Dampier 10.6M
*Camby 9M
Nene 8.8M
Troy Murphy 9.2M
*Kaman 8.6M
Kwame Brown 9.1M
Chandler 10.1M
Curry 9M
Brad Miller 10.5M
Okur 8.5M

I look at this list and feel that Sam is getting about market value for a second level center. He is overpaid- because the league overpays centers. There are centers making 6M+ who don't even play regularly (Jerome James and Blount come to mind.)

Obviously there are centers who are better or nearly as good as Sam and make less money- mostly players who don't start or are still on their rookie contracts.

[SendEm]

Check out the stats before you claim that he has been in the top 10 every year. His defense has been lately a joke and quite frankly he is a bad team defender. As far as his offense is concerning he is a black hole in the offense. He tries to do fancy passes which he is not capable of and he cannot create his own shot. Actually, why I am justifying myself for my statements? Watch the games and you see what Dalembert's brings to the table. Lately, he has been TRASH.

"Lately?" You probably were one of the fans swinging from Dalembert's unit back when he was having his hot streak. You can't claim to know basketball if you can't recognize that over an 82 game season players do have periods when they are not doing so well. The great players can bring it every night consistently and right now we aren't talking about a great player... You still haven't shown were Dalembert is "grossly overpaid." It's obvious that you realized how foolish that statement was so you are back peddling faster than Deion Sanders in his prime...

[76erinSJ]

I like the Primetime Ref Sendem, Go Cowboys!. Sammy is alil overpaid for what he brings but without him our team sucks. Put a star PF next to him and we are set.

[underpressure]

-= original quote snipped =-



"Lately?" You probably were one of the fans swinging from Dalembert's unit back when he was having his hot streak. You can't claim to know basketball if you can't recognize that over an 82 game season players do have periods when they are not doing so well. The great players can bring it every night consistently and right now we aren't talking about a great player... You still haven't shown were Dalembert is "grossly overpaid." It's obvious that you realized how foolish that statement was so you are back peddling faster than Deion Sanders in his prime...

I never JUMPED on the Dalembert bandwaggon and I was always advocating a trade since we grossly overpaid him. I back up my statement based on his impact on that team and lack of skillset and improvement. He makes the most money on this weak team but his impact is 3rd at best. He has not done any major improvement to warrant that salary. If we add another player in that offseason and Thad evolves into a better player, he might be the fifth banana on this team! And that is just ridiculous considering that we will likely play solely for the playoffs and not for any championship yet. I do not really understand your love festival with Dalembert. And it is reality satire if you claim that I have no understanding of basketball while you whine about Iguodala the whole day and putting him on the same scale like Ricky Davis or so. People who live in glass houses should not throw with stones...

[SendEm]

-= original quote snipped =-


I never JUMPED on the Dalembert bandwaggon and I was always advocating a trade since we grossly overpaid him. I back up my statement based on his impact on that team and lack of skillset and improvement. He makes the most money on this weak team but his impact is 3rd at best. He has not done any major improvement to warrant that salary. If we add another player in that offseason and Thad evolves into a better player, he might be the fifth banana on this team! And that is just ridiculous considering that we will likely play solely for the playoffs and not for any championship yet. I do not really understand your love festival with Dalembert. And it is reality satire if you claim that I have no understanding of basketball while you whine about Iguodala the whole day and putting him on the same scale like Ricky Davis or so. People who live in glass houses should not throw with stones...

Like I said, you DON'T know much about basketball and you solidified my assessment with your quoted post above. You said that Dalembert at best has the 3rd biggest impact on this team. Well what happens to the Sixers defense every time Dalembert goes to the bench? That's right it is non existent. Teams live at the rim on the Sixers when he is on the bench. He blocks, alters, and deters whenever he is in the game. That right there is not "3rd impact" on this team and NOT "soon to be 5th impact after the summer" as you said in your post above.

If you would have said that Dalembert is the 3rd best player on this team then you wouldn't be wrong. But Dalembert's impact on the floor only takes a backseat to Andre Miller's.

[SouthJersey]

For those who think Dalembert isnt a valuable member, who do you think is a better option to start at center and average a double double? Jason Smith?

And BTW, Dalembert is not Overpaid. He may have got overpaid, but he has actually lived up to salary unlike many, many big men.

[underpressure]

I am not questioning Dalembert's role in THIS team. He is valuable because he intimidates the other guys from driving to the basket. That is all known. He would be a good asset IF we did not overpay him. You cannot give a big man solely for that skill and some man-to-man defense 10 to 12 million a year. You can get that from i.e. Diop for cheaper money.

And seriouly, putting Dalembert's impact over Iguodala's is beyond me.

[tk76]

Don't compare a SF's salary with a centers. There are probably 100X as many people in this world who can play SF at a professional level when compared to Centers. Supply and demand.

The worst starting SF in the league is still a good player, while about half of the teams in the NBA start centers who have serious flaws.