Ban Howard Mass: The new draft thread

[revprodeji]

btw, good update read on Jordan.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NCA ... -Part-Two/

[deeney0]

Any supporters of Rose over Beasley @ 1 want to back up their position without using a need-based or character-based argument?

[revprodeji]

COuld you define the potential arguments they should use?

Also need is a serious issue every year and honestly, if Beasley can play "with" Al I think he provides a need. Having a pure pg is nice but many teams do it without a pure stud pg (by my count there are only 5 stud pg's in the league kidd-diddy-paul-D.Will-t.parker) but having a true #1 scorer and another athlete like Beasley would provide a serious need.

Being that we have 2 early 2nd this year we can pick up a 7ft that drops. (ala thompson from above) which shores up a need.

Character is a very, very valid argument. It is just a matter of being able to accept that gamble. I made the decision about 2 weeks ago that the gamble is worth it.

[drummerrob26]

I agree with your thoughts on the minutes. Should have taken that in to account more. Beasley is going to be a beast in the NBA and I agree that he would be the right pick. Problem I am seeing is that if you are going by projections it seems we need the #1 pick to get beasley and I would say that given our draft past thats tough since we have never moved up before. Jordan is a guy I really am not comfortable with taking unless everyone fell asleep and there he was in the 2nd round. Major issue for me seems to be his lack of improvement which I have heard time and time again as well as his lack of effort it seems. I definitely think center is our biggest need which is the problem since there is no Greg Oden in this draft that everyone seems to agree is going to make an easier jump to the NBA. Brook Lopez seems to be a pick I could defnitely live early on with but is he really a guy you would take as the #2 pick? I dont think so unfortunately

[revprodeji]

I think you could justify a lopez pick if he continues his play. He is only 19 years old. So he has "potential" and he is a 7ft athletic player.

Personally, if we get the #2 i could see us trading down. Just to get value. I could see a

Jaric+pick for Marshal+pick+phx pick. Or something like that. Or if they have such a big rose crush we could do

Jaric+pick for Marshall+Green+pick (exchange the phx pick for Green) Which would allow us to draft lopez or Hibbert and move with a line up of

Lopez/Al/Green/Brewer/Foye

Me likes.

But Beasley is the goal right now.

[drummerrob26]

I agree there is no question that if we are able to obtain the number one pick Beasley is the answer for sure. I also agree trading down would be a great idea, especially if we are able to get rid of jaric in the process and get Lopez. That is something I would really like. If we do get the number one pick and take beasley then I think we have to either trade up or in that 2nd round take a nice project center.

[deeney0]

COuld you define the potential arguments they should use?

That Rose is the better player? With 9 players 25 or under on the roster right now, potentially 4 firsts and two seconds over the next two years, the Wolves are poised to have 15 players under 26 on their roster after the 2009 draft. Obviously moves will be made. In my mind, that's a recipe to go best player available in the draft and let things sort themselves out. I have yet to hear a compelling argument that Rose is more of an impact player than Beasley.

[the_bruce]

Rose has an upside that may translate better into playing in the NBA on day 1, his quickness probably can't be matched by many even in the NBA. Whereas beaslys game can be stopped by just having him guarded by bigger or quicker players, and defensive schemes.

Ill be interested in seeing the predraft measurments for everyone

[revprodeji]

Ill be interested in seeing the predraft measurments for everyone

QFT


btw,
The defensive scheme/stop idea could be for both players. If you put a bigger+faster guy and specifically set a scheme to stop anyone you can.Whether it is beasley or Rose. I personally think Beasley has more chance of being a #1 scoring option.

[horaceworthy]

COuld you define the potential arguments they should use?

Also need is a serious issue every year and honestly, if Beasley can play "with" Al I think he provides a need. Having a pure pg is nice but many teams do it without a pure stud pg (by my count there are only 5 stud pg's in the league kidd-diddy-paul-D.Will-t.parker) but having a true #1 scorer and another athlete like Beasley would provide a serious need.

Being that we have 2 early 2nd this year we can pick up a 7ft that drops. (ala thompson from above) which shores up a need.

Character is a very, very valid argument. It is just a matter of being able to accept that gamble. I made the decision about 2 weeks ago that the gamble is worth it.

No Nash or Billups among the stud PG's? Forderon is even a possibility for a mention, but the success of PG's under Sam Mitchell (Alston and Mike James had career years or near it, Ford and Calderon have both greatly improved) makes that questionable.

You're right in that need can be a serious issue, but when teams overdraft for need, that represents a serious problem (which is the trap if you look too much at need). People also have different ideas of what the team needs. For example, some think that our major need is a 5, some think that our major need is talent, some think our major need is a true PG.

Character can also be a valid argument, but it's very tough to quantify from the position most of us sit in when it comes to draft prospects. We're going by second, third, or fourth hand information for the most part, and we don't know how reliable it is.

For instance, everything I read of Larry Fitzgerald these days talks about what a great guy and how hard of a worker he is. I went to high school with him, played on the same football team, and that definitely wasn't the case. He could be a nice guy when he wanted to, but that wasn't often the case. He slacked off in school and practice, to the point where he had to go to prep school for a year to get eligible for college. It's quite possible that he's changed and matured, but the Larry Fitzgerald I've read about is definitely not the Larry Fitzgerald I knew.

Specifically in the case of Beasley, he's mostly just shown immaturity, not that he's a sloth or a hurricane of negativity. It's funny when people bring up the getting kicked out of Oak Hill as his huge negative, but I don't see Ty Lawson getting the character red flag stuck on him, and he was the guy Beasley was having the tagging competition with (he was just more subtle about what he tagged). There's definitely some negative stuff out there about him, but we don't know how accurate it is, or howhe interacts with his teammates, how coachable he is, etc. Unless somebody has an actual police record (which Beasley doesn't), or has shown something exceptional in that area, it's very, very tough to assess the character of a draft prospect.

[the_bruce]

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btw,
The defensive scheme/stop idea could be for both players. If you put a bigger+faster guy and specifically set a scheme to stop anyone you can.Whether it is beasley or Rose. I personally think Beasley has more chance of being a #1 scoring option.

True I just think its harder to stop a lightning quick guard. Beasly doesn't appear to have a quick first step ala Melo. He can't overpower NBA forwards like he does in college(or at least as much), and although he's probably a superior athlete in terms of quickness when compared to NBA players it will mean less against NBA level athletes. That being said I'd still take Beasly because he seems more polished\ready and unique. I think the comparison that Ive seen throw around of Coleman is spot on for Beasly. If his high end is Coleman(or better)??? All coleman ever did was show up and dominate, he had a great career but could have been so much more imo. You have to pick him #1.

[hotshotschamp]

This draft we are gonna get a good player.

There is one superstar in it forsure ....Beasley ( you see what he's doing tonight )

Also guys like Rose, Bayless, Lopez.......we are pretty much guaranteed one of them. They all could really help our team.

I would Loveeeee to somehow get chris douglas roberts too if we can trade some picks or a player for a 10-15th pick. He's wicked.

[wolves_fan_82au]

Any supporters of Rose over Beasley @ 1 want to back up their position without using a need-based or character-based argument?

U cant play small forward avg 1 apg

[CB4MiamiHeat]

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U cant play small forward avg 1 apg

thats because he doesnt play SF.

and still guys like Granger, Gay, Jefferson are low assists SFs. Plenty more.

[wolves_fan_82au]

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thats because he doesnt play SF.

so why does everyone think he can play there for the wolves????????

[CB4MiamiHeat]

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so why does everyone think he can play there for the wolves????????

Offensively he can, cause he can shoot from outside, and he can take it in himself with his ballhandling and fits well with Jefferson getting his points inside.

The question if he can play SF is on defense, some say no but i actually think he can...from what ive heard i was expecting him to be bad like Budinger or Carmelo . but he can move his feet very well and has a long reach, he can alter shots against the athletic SFs.

[drummerrob26]

I would have to say wow in terms of the games that Rose and Beasley had today. I didnt actually watch the Kansas State game but I did watch the Memphis game and the only reason Memphis was even in the game was because Rose put the team on his back doing everything from tipping rebounds to clutch shots/assists. In terms of need there is no doubt that Beasley makes more sense for us. Plus, he is just playing great even setting the double double record now for division I. I have to say though, Rose would look sweet in a wolves jersey if we didnt have telfair. Those 2 play a very similar fast paced game. I will pose this question now, going on previous drafts whether we have the worst record or not we dont get that first pick. If this holds true again this year and we have the 2nd pick in the draft do you still draft need such as a Brook Lopez or do you draft on talent and draft rose?

[AQuintus]

I would say that with top picks, you should always go for talent over need. Otherwise you end up with a Bogut when you could have a Paul/Williams.

Edit: I watched the Memphis Tennessee game, too, and I was amazed how Rose literally played himself to exhaustion trying to win that one. Seriously, for anyone who missed the game, there was a stretch where it looked like he was at the point of collapsing and he still gave 110 percent.

[deeney0]

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U cant play small forward avg 1 apg

He's not going to average 1 apg in the NBA. He's not asked to make passes at Kansas St.

f this holds true again this year and we have the 2nd pick in the draft do you still draft need such as a Brook Lopez or do you draft on talent and draft rose?

Gotta take talent. Passing Rose of Lopez would be a monumental error.

[hotshotschamp]

people are underrating Lopez ....i've seen him a couple times this year he's a GREAT player!

I think Beasley is the star of the draft...however...

I think Rose/Lopez/Bayless are all in the next tier

Followed by guys like mayo, donte greene, hibbert and such.

Lopez is a great player who would look great next to Jefferson. Lopez is nba ready too, and would be a force off the bat.

I wouldn't be sad if he's our guy come draft day, although i'm praying for beasley on a hourly basis.