What the future holds for the Kings...

[backer55]

As long as we're talking the future, are we stuck with Mikie Moore? He's without a doubt our weak link. Heck, id rather see Kenny out there. At least he could catch the ball most of the time and he was pretty good at snagging rebounds.

I realize that we have players in waiting but Moore is lacking, and i'm wanting to see more of him ...on the bench.

[Ballings7]

OJ Mayo's not really a PG. He's more of an SG and definitely score-first. We need a guy at PG who has facilitating as a strength of his game. Maybe he could develop into a balanced offensive PG like Billups, Deron, though. Rather than a Terry, Bibby, Iverson score-first guy.

[deNIEd]

I'd like to see the Kings keep Ron for the next three years or so. That way, he'll be a huge expiring the year after Kenny/Brad/SAR expire. Lakers got Pau Gasol for expirings and a few late firsts. I could see a similar situation soon with another superstar.

BUT, until then, time to let Ron and all of his flexing craziness loose onto the NBA, with Martin as his sidekick and eventually Hawes as a rich mans' Brad Miller in the post. Say we get OJ Mayo in this year's draft...

Mayo/Beno
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Garcia
Mikki/Shelden
Miller/Hawes

That could make the playoffs IMO.

Again, you can't count on the fact that there is a big star that will be traded for expirings? When was the last time that happened? Pre-Gasol and Bibby.

However, Mayo/Martin/Artest/Mikki/Miller getting into the playoffs, as in next year? Are you crazy? Miller and Mikki won't be getting any better, they may not decrease but won't be getting better...so they are a wash. Martin won't be significantly better, so he will be a wash, same with Artest. And Bibby is much better than a rookie Mayo.

I'm beginning to feel, it's either Artest or Martin, and we can't keep both.
Looking at the next few offseasons, the chances of us signing a bigname PF while keeping Artest and Martin is pretty much zero. In '10, if we just keep Martin/Salmons/Garcia/Artest/Hawes/Williams/Douby/1st round draft picks, we are at 53 mil. Assuming Petrie won't sign anyone to more than a 3 year deal from now on, and we don't sign any of our 2nd round picks, AND douby/hawes/Williams aren't extended. Meeting all these circumstances is highly unlikely, so there goes FA as an option.

Trade - If we keep those core players, we can't trade for any big name free agent without sacrificing all our talent. I don't care about Gasol, becuase chances of that happening are slim to none, so we can't count on it.

Draft - Artest alone will keep us from drafting a Horford/Oden/Beasley/Howard type player, and Petrie has not shown he can find the hidden bigman gem in any draft.

However, if Artest is extended or s&t'd or Martin is traded, both will be able to bring us a quality bigman prospect.

[KingInExile]

As long as we're talking the future, are we stuck with Mikie Moore? He's without a doubt our weak link. Heck, id rather see Kenny out there. At least he could catch the ball most of the time and he was pretty good at snagging rebounds.

I realize that we have players in waiting but Moore is lacking, and i'm wanting to see more of him ...on the bench.

We can cut him after next year because his contract is not guaranteed for the 3rd season.

[backer55]

Thanks KIE,

you know, i do like the guy, but just not as a first string guy for us. He does have a good strong work ethic. What he does, he does consistantly.

[SacKingZZZ]

The idea is to eventually get a franchise player to build around. Ron, I think, can be built around temporarily until the 2010 season when we will have near max money to throw around.

But then we aren't really re-building at all. And basically wasting valuable minutes that could be given to the talent we may actually be keeping. In the meantime we might be good enough to challenge for the 13th/14th pick every year. Doesn't sound all that great to me.

[Smills91]

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But then we aren't really re-building at all. And basically wasting valuable minutes that could be given to the talent we may actually be keeping. In the meantime we might be good enough to challenge for the 13th/14th pick every year. Doesn't sound all that great to me.

Petrie rebuilding UNDER the guys we currently have. It's unorthodox, but I think it's acutally MORE effective. I don't think a franchise needs to experience the bottom druthers of the league to bounce back. The Lakers have implemented this strategy for decades now. I mean how many years have they had lotto picks? Just a handful, and they've been late lotto picks.

[SacKingZZZ]

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Petrie rebuilding UNDER the guys we currently have. It's unorthodox, but I think it's acutally MORE effective. I don't think a franchise needs to experience the bottom druthers of the league to bounce back. The Lakers have implemented this strategy for decades now. I mean how many years have they had lotto picks? Just a handful, and they've been late lotto picks.

Ok I can go along with that and if you haven't looked around we have been in about the worst place you possibly can be as a team for the last 4-5 years. There is no bottom like being sandwiched in between mediocre and suck and taking a nice looong filthy slide downward.

Maybe that was Geoff's plan all along, less pain but far more of it.

Bright side is we may at least be on the back half if Geoff wakes up and smells the coffee.

[Cruel_Ruin]

Again, you can't count on the fact that there is a big star that will be traded for expirings? When was the last time that happened? Pre-Gasol and Bibby.

However, Mayo/Martin/Artest/Mikki/Miller getting into the playoffs, as in next year? Are you crazy? Miller and Mikki won't be getting any better, they may not decrease but won't be getting better...so they are a wash. Martin won't be significantly better, so he will be a wash, same with Artest. And Bibby is much better than a rookie Mayo.

I'm beginning to feel, it's either Artest or Martin, and we can't keep both.
Looking at the next few offseasons, the chances of us signing a bigname PF while keeping Artest and Martin is pretty much zero. In '10, if we just keep Martin/Salmons/Garcia/Artest/Hawes/Williams/Douby/1st round draft picks, we are at 53 mil. Assuming Petrie won't sign anyone to more than a 3 year deal from now on, and we don't sign any of our 2nd round picks, AND douby/hawes/Williams aren't extended. Meeting all these circumstances is highly unlikely, so there goes FA as an option.

Trade - If we keep those core players, we can't trade for any big name free agent without sacrificing all our talent. I don't care about Gasol, becuase chances of that happening are slim to none, so we can't count on it.

Draft - Artest alone will keep us from drafting a Horford/Oden/Beasley/Howard type player, and Petrie has not shown he can find the hidden bigman gem in any draft.

However, if Artest is extended or s&t'd or Martin is traded, both will be able to bring us a quality bigman prospect.

You're thinking way down the road, I'm talking just for the short term, as in the next few years. You keep saying the draft, but who in the draft will be better than Ron Artest? One, maybe two players for sure. And those two WILL be gone in the first few picks, which would take extraordinary luck to get.

What I'm saying is keep Ron around for the near future (2-3 years). See what we have with him around. Instead of sitting in the lottery for these next two years by trading all of our talent away, we could see what we have for the short term, and develop younger talent (Spencer, 09/10 draft picks) behind what we have now.

By the time Kenny/Brad/SAR/Mikki all expire, we will:
1) Know exactly where we stand with Hawes
2) Know how good Martin can become

That, IMO, is when we should try our luck in the lottery, because that's when we will have capspace.

[Smills91]

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Ok I can go along with that and if you haven't looked around we have been in about the worst place you possibly can be as a team for the last 4-5 years. There is no bottom like being sandwiched in between mediocre and suck and taking a nice looong filthy slide downward.

Maybe that was Geoff's plan all along, less pain but far more of it.

Bright side is we may at least be on the back half if Geoff wakes up and smells the coffee.

We've missed the playoffs exactly ONE season. I think it's premature to say we've been in the worst place possible for 4-5 years.

[pillwenney]

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Petrie rebuilding UNDER the guys we currently have. It's unorthodox, but I think it's acutally MORE effective. I don't think a franchise needs to experience the bottom druthers of the league to bounce back. The Lakers have implemented this strategy for decades now. I mean how many years have they had lotto picks? Just a handful, and they've been late lotto picks.

To be fair, it is a different situation when you already have a superstar to build around. When they traded Shaq, they were able to rebuild around Kobe. We have nobody to really rebuild around because we don't have a superstar.

On the other hand, there is the model of an 04 Pistons-type team. If Geoff really flexes his drafting muscles the next few years, and we can get several 2nd tier stars, then we could build a really nice team without getting a high pick (and perhaps be in a situation to trade one for a big time superstar, but if not, we could stick with the "a lot of really good players" model).

[SacKingZZZ]

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We've missed the playoffs exactly ONE season. I think it's premature to say we've been in the worst place possible for 4-5 years.

Getting WORSE year after year on a slow decline is pretty bad if you ask me. Missing the playoffs? Who cares. Year after year we have gotten worse and worse, the only thing we have done is lucked into some serious talent with crappy picks.

[Smills91]

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Getting WORSE year after year on a slow decline is pretty bad if you ask me. Missing the playoffs? Who cares. Year after year we have gotten worse and worse, the only thing we have done is lucked into some serious talent with crappy picks.

I can count on one hand the number of BAD moves Petrie has made his decade + time here as GM. The fact is, winning comes in cycles. C-Webb's injury had more to do with expediting and exposing this franchise more than anyone knows. It compounded the large deals because we were in WIN NOW mode, which is fine, we would have been top class NBA talents for at least 2-3 more seasons(if not more) and then the big contracts would or could have been moved or expired by the downward cycle and Petrie could have re-loaded. It set us back. But the fact that we've only missed the playoffs once and we have a 25 year old 25 PPG guy in Martin, one of the most advanced skilled centers at the age of 19. IMO The best two way, all-around player in the game(Ron Artest) this side of Kevin Garnett on our roster speaks volumes as to where Petrie is taking us despite those 'win-now' contracts.
Call me an optimist or whatever, but I still think we have a shot at the playoffs this year, there's still TWO months left to play and we're only 6-7 games back in the loss column. THe West is gonna beat each other up and a few teams are gonna slide. IF we handle our business, we can do this still. And the team has shown the capability of doing this, especially when healthy. This team is going UPWARD, the low point was LAST season. And having 2 bad seasons before you bounce back is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, that's marvelous work by the frontoffice to anticipate a premature decline due to a superstar's injury.

[SacKingZZZ]

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I can count on one hand the number of BAD moves Petrie has made his decade + time here as GM. The fact is, winning comes in cycles. C-Webb's injury had more to do with expediting and exposing this franchise more than anyone knows. It compounded the large deals because we were in WIN NOW mode, which is fine, we would have been top class NBA talents for at least 2-3 more seasons(if not more) and then the big contracts would or could have been moved or expired by the downward cycle and Petrie could have re-loaded. It set us back. But the fact that we've only missed the playoffs once and we have a 25 year old 25 PPG guy in Martin, one of the most advanced skilled centers at the age of 19. IMO The best two way, all-around player in the game(Ron Artest) this side of Kevin Garnett on our roster speaks volumes as to where Petrie is taking us despite those 'win-now' contracts.
Call me an optimist or whatever, but I still think we have a shot at the playoffs this year, there's still TWO months left to play and we're only 6-7 games back in the loss column. THe West is gonna beat each other up and a few teams are gonna slide. IF we handle our business, we can do this still. And the team has shown the capability of doing this, especially when healthy. This team is going UPWARD, the low point was LAST season. And having 2 bad seasons before you bounce back is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, that's marvelous work by the frontoffice to anticipate a premature decline due to a superstar's injury.

We'll see. It's still technically possible, only if teams do slide. Oh and we win just about 80% of the games left. We have some pretty tough games too, 18 of the last 28 which I believe are against teams with a better record than us. If they can pull this one off then great!

And I think that last part doesn't ring quite as true as it once did. Hindsight is 20/20 and if winning was what we were looking for that team looked to be one that was going to coast on it's way to 50 W's. Instead we wasted time with the idea that Peja/Miller/Bibby was going to get it done for us. Then it was Artest/Miller/Bibby. Now Artest/Miller/Martin. We shall see. But unlike then, we now have some nice young talent getting their balls crunched in the gears of mediocrity.

I am still waiting for Petrie to "expedite the process" as he once put it. The pieces shrouded in uncertainty should be the first order of business.

[deNIEd]

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I can count on one hand the number of BAD moves Petrie has made his decade + time here as GM. The fact is, winning comes in cycles.

Trading Webber for that **** package
Signing Shareef
Signing Moore
Letting Bonzi walk
Signing Ostertag
Signing all those crappy PF/C's Wood, Taylor, etc.
Not drafting Boozer or Arenas
Not trading Bibby eariler, trading Bibby eariler would probably bump us up 1-2 spots in the draft.
....


You're absolutely correct, winning comes in cycles.
The next cycle is Portland/Atlanta/Orlando/NO, etc these young teams.
And the fact is, every single one of those teams, are better rebuilt than we are, and if do not get on this cycle to compete with them....then we miss ANOTHER cycle. and another 10 years of mediocrity

[deNIEd]

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Petrie rebuilding UNDER the guys we currently have. It's unorthodox, but I think it's acutally MORE effective. I don't think a franchise needs to experience the bottom druthers of the league to bounce back. The Lakers have implemented this strategy for decades now. I mean how many years have they had lotto picks? Just a handful, and they've been late lotto picks.

You can't compare us to LA, not entirely.

One, they have Kobe. A top 3 player in the league without doubt.
Two, their in LA. A place players dream/want to play for, unlike sacramento.
Three, their lotto pick, seems like he will be one of the top bigman in the league in 2-3 years, if we drafted Oden or Horford, then yes, you can rebuild with the guys we currently have.

[sackings916]

2 things that will be crucial to the Kings taking it to the next level is A) Getting a high level, penetrating PG. Beno is a solid player but because of the make up of the team I think we need a Paul/Williams level PG and B) Getting a defensive/rebounding presence in the paint who also is not a liability offensively(basically a star PF). We have a few years to get these players, as our younger players develop at the same time. I think our bench is looking good now and future, with Beno,Douby,Garcia and Williams being the main parts.

[deNIEd]

2 things that will be crucial to the Kings taking it to the next level is A) Getting a high level, penetrating PG. Beno is a solid player but because of the make up of the team I think we need a Paul/Williams level PG and B) Getting a defensive/rebounding presence in the paint who also is not a liability offensively(basically a star PF). We have a few years to get these players, as our younger players develop at the same time. I think our bench is looking good now and future, with Beno,Douby,Garcia and Williams being the main parts.

And how do we get these two players? Either draft, trade or free agency. If we keep artest, then we won't have hte option of free agency. We already have a limited amount of talent, so trading for them wouldn't make our team better (ie Mavs, trade 4-5 solid players for 1?) or draft...

[sackings916]

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And how do we get these two players? Either draft, trade or free agency. If we keep artest, then we won't have hte option of free agency. We already have a limited amount of talent, so trading for them wouldn't make our team better (ie Mavs, trade 4-5 solid players for 1?) or draft...

Resigning Artest doesn't necessarily mean we can't get a FA. We could easily move Miller for expirings and a pick, next year Thomas will have a year less on his contract, so moving him might be a bit easier especially if we are sending a Salmons or Garcia along with him. I think next season is Moore's last year of guaranteed salary, and SAR+Salmons come off the books in 2010. We should have the cap space for a FA by 2010 if not sooner.

[Smills91]

In my mind, Petrie's DRAFTING a PG. Between the Pick/Beno being re-signed for the MLE, I see the PG positions as SET for the next 4-5 years. Petrie's draft record + the # of quality PG's in this draft + the 10-20 range in which we'll draft = a VERY good PG for the future for the Kings.

As for the rebounding Big that's either gonna have to A) Come via trade, B) Come in the 2009 Draft or C) Shelden Williams figuring out the league and panning out.

If any of those happen, the future looks bright for Sacramento IMO.