Melo/Bosh or Arenas/Amare

[EdMar_Davis]

I take Arenas and Amare mostly because Amare even though i think he is overrated is VASTLY SUPERIOR to Bosh who puts up empty stats and is just so freaking soft.

Bosh and Melo have no D, atleast Amare has help defense.

i'd take Melo and Amare if that was an option, but Amare is the best all-around basketball player on this list sadly. Since he has a whole offensive game and half a defensive one, which is a lot more defense than anyone else in this comparison.

WTF are you talking about? Amare isn;t better then Bosh buddy. What's an empty stat anyways? that doesn;t even make sense. CB has a better offensive game then Amare, better robounder, better defender and probably passer. Only thing he's got on Bosh is dunking. Chris Bosh is also waaaay better then Amare in 1 on 1 places, almost all of Bosh's plays come from him getting his own shot's. He can take any defender 1 on 1 on O, he can shoot it all the way to the 3 line and can drive it in on anyone.

Most of Amare's points come from Nash getting him dunks that anyone could make. Amare is good, but Bosh is better then him or atleast on par with him.

[tsherkin]

Most of Amare's points come from Nash getting him dunks that anyone could make. Amare is good, but Bosh is better then him or atleast on par with him.

Actually, if we're going to trouble ourselves with facts...

Just over half of Amare's shot attempts are jumpers, only 6% less than Bosh and he shoots an eFG 6.5% better than Bosh on those attempts.

Yes, it's true, he has a much higher percentage of assisted baskets but there's a reason Bosh has so much success in isos and that's on account of the spacing Toronto enjoys and the threat that the wing pick-and-roll presents, drawing so much attention away from Bosh on overload plays.

Also, let's not forget that Amare does have the skills to be the kind of player he is; it isn't as easy as it sounds, moving without the ball in the pick-and-roll set and then finishing. Or moving in transition, or moving without the ball for catch-and-shoot jumpers, those are all skills.

And he still does have a brutal first step and good range on his jumper, which does help him in isolation plays.

Bosh is a much better passer by volume, sure, but he's also put in positions to pass more often than is Amare. He's a comparable rebounder, but they do compare pretty well on offense.

[Tommy Gun]

Bosh gives up an opponent per of 15 versus Amare's 22.
The Raps D is 0.6 points better per 48 minutes with Bosh on the court than off while Phoenix is 4.4 points worse with Amare on the court.
Bosh is clearly better defensively than Amare who is probably the worst defending big I have seen all year. Bosh dropped 42 in 32 minutes on him like it was nothing.

[tsherkin]

Bosh gives up an opponent per of 15 versus Amare's 22.
The Raps D is 0.6 points better per 48 minutes with Bosh on the court than off while Phoenix is 4.4 points worse with Amare on the court.
Bosh is clearly better defensively than Amare who is probably the worst defending big I have seen all year. Bosh dropped 42 in 32 minutes on him like it was nothing.

Opp PER not so much with the useful, but the defense comment is generally true for Bosh unless you're talking about physical guys like Dwight.

It's hard to make this argument after watching what 'sheed did to Amare earlier today.

[EdMar_Davis]

[quote="tsherkin"][/quote]


I'm not saying he's not a good player or that he cant get his own shot's. I'm saying that Bosh is a better player in almost any part of the game then Amare, cept for dunking. Also, you could say that the Suns system opens up the floor for Amare muuch more then Toronto's for Bosh. He plays with one of the greatest pg's to ever play the game, the games I've seen of the Suns, Nash get's sooo much open looks for players it's crazy. If you watch the Raptors and see what Bosh does, you would know for sure that Bosh is better.

[tsherkin]

-= original quote snipped =-




I'm not saying he's not a good player or that he cant get his own shot's. I'm saying that Bosh is a better player in almost any part of the game then Amare, cept for dunking.

Which is wrong, because it's clear that Amare is at least as good a mid-range shooter and rebounder.

Also, you could say that the Suns system opens up the floor for Amare muuch more then Toronto's for Bosh. He plays with one of the greatest pg's to ever play the game, the games I've seen of the Suns, Nash get's sooo much open looks for players it's crazy. If you watch the Raptors and see what Bosh does, you would know for sure that Bosh is better.

No, no I disagree. The Raptors run a much tighter offensive set than do the Suns, who rely more on Nash's momentary creativity, the transition game and the two-man game between Nash and Stoudemire. The Raptors have noticeably superior off-ball movement from their 3rd, 4th and 5th players and similarly much greater involvement, which means that those other three guys are drawing more attention and consequently opening up the floor more effectively.

Remember, Toronto's 7th in the league in offensive efficiency and we don't have a two-time MVP running the point or a massively dominant interior finisher and didn't have Shawn Marion for the bulk of the season. The Raptors do their work with patient ball movement and excellent usage of screens and off-ball action in an offense that is a LOT more effective when our starters aren't on the floor because we don't rely on our stars to initiate the offense; much of the time, Bosh is actually so effective because he's picking his nose on the weak-side elbow while Calderon and someone else run a wing pick-and-roll (Bargs, Rasho, etc). The Raps overload and then swing it to Bosh, who's all alone in single coverage on the wing and then he isos and scores.

I don't consider that to be less open than Amare on the types of shots he gets because it plays directly to Bosh's strengths (first step and jumper) the same way that being the on-ball screener does for Amare in Phoenix.

EDIT: I should add, the difference between Phoenix and Toronto is 1.7 points per 100 possessions (110.0 to 108.3), which is marginal; the Raptors are an outstanding offensive team and aren't recognized for our offensive proficiency with enough fanfare.