what really happened to steve francis?

[Huskies1947]

Karma...

[bringinhinkie]

Well he kinda sucks when he isn't dominating the ball... He can't play a role.... simple as that.

dingdingding

usually what happens to shootfirst pgs or combo guards

obviously marburys stats declined too when he wasnt able to dominate the ball but he has better pg skills than stevie so he still is an effective player even playing out of "starbury " mode..

some guys can adjust, some cant

[Jemini80]

Karma...

(picture)

Kobe seems to be doing fine...do the Hornets not have the Karma power?

[T-dot Raps]

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Kobe seems to be doing fine...do the Hornets not have the Karma power?

The man was accused of rape.

[bringinhinkie]

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The man was accused of rape.

lol he has a point

[Doctor MJ]

believe it or not, steve francis was a very, very good player. he was super athletic, and he could take you out 9-10 times in an isolation situation.
he had a fair number of points, rebounds, and assists in his first couple of years with houston.
it all started after he got traded. from being allstar swapped for t-mac, to being the biggest bench warmer in the NBA.

i can understand a player being older, and losing some game, but come on....he was a top 3 pick in the draft, and he PROVED he belonged in the NBA...he was an allstar starter, hes had career games, and now hes suddenly just done.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO STEVE FRANCIS?

ps- i dont remember him going thru any MAJOR injuries either.

I'd say what it comes down to is that only the absolute elite get teams built around them all through their career, and a near superstar who can't play complimentary ball to a great talent is less valuable than an average player who can. Francis wasn't good enough to lead a team anywhere as the team's star, and he's never been able to fit in when asked to take on a lesser role.

[Blake_Savage]

i heard he was a big time xtc head, for real, and that **** messes up your head

[Anticon]

Think of all of the 90s guys who have been dismissed as good players:

Francis
Marbury
Walker
Glenn Robinson
Derrick Coleman

These guys were for the most part apparitions who chucked a lot and dominated the ball, but they passed for stars in the 90s.

It isn't just Francis, people were somehow more accepting of these types of players. People are a lot more hesitant to hand the keys to a franchise to pseudo-superstars these days.

[Doctor MJ]

Think of all of the 90s guys who have been dismissed as good players:

Francis
Marbury
Walker
Glenn Robinson
Derrick Coleman

These guys were for the most part apparitions who chucked a lot and dominated the ball, but they passed for stars in the 90s.

It isn't just Francis, people were somehow more accepting of these types of players. People are a lot more hesitant to hand the keys to a franchise to pseudo-superstars these days.

Francis was still a rookie in 2000. Marbury's peak was in the 2000's. Walker and Robinson's best team success during their peak came as sidekicks.

I would say you're looking for patterns where there are none, but there was indeed a pattern. From a decade, '86 to '95, the drafts were on the whole very disappointing, this led to the league getting weaker, which resulted in lesser players becoming stars. At the same time, the popularity of the league was peaking due to Jordan, which led to the stars of the time getting more exposure than the comparable (but more talented stars of today).

[Anticon]

-

I would say you're looking for patterns where there are none, but there was indeed a pattern. From a decade, '86 to '95, the drafts were on the whole very disappointing, this led to the league getting weaker, which resulted in lesser players becoming stars. At the same time, the popularity of the league was peaking due to Jordan, which led to the stars of the time getting more exposure than the comparable (but more talented stars of today).

Agreed.

[Jemini80]

drafts were weak?

Rodman
Reggie Miller
Dell Curry
Scottie Pippen
David Robinson
Mark Jackson
Mitch Richmond
Rik Smits
Vlade Divac
Shawn Kemp
Tim Hardaway
Mookie Blaylock
Glen Rice
Gary Payton
Tony Kukoc
Larry Johnson
Mutumbo
Steve Smith
Shaq
Alonzo
Doug Christie
Sprewell
PJ Brown
Webber
Penny
Monster Mash
Vin Baker
Allan Houston
Sam Cassell
Van Exel
jason Kidd
Grant hill
Juwan Howard
Eddie Jones
Joe Smith
Mcdyess
stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace
KG
Damon Stoudamire
Theo Ratliff
Michael Finley
Kurt Thomas


they may not be superstars, but these are all the very good players in those drafts, I wouldn't call these drafts weak. Just that they were filled with people who actually knew how to play basketball, instead of athletes with no bball iq like modern drafts.

[UDRIH14]

francis and top3 doesnt belong in the same sentence

this is the dude that didnt wanan play for the team he got drafted at 3rd, and ended up getting traded on draft day

[DelaneyRudd]

drafts were weak?

Rodman
Reggie Miller
Dell Curry
Scottie Pippen
David Robinson
Mark Jackson
Mitch Richmond
Rik Smits
Vlade Divac
Shawn Kemp
Tim Hardaway
Mookie Blaylock
Glen Rice
Gary Payton
Tony Kukoc
Larry Johnson
Mutumbo
Steve Smith
Shaq
Alonzo
Doug Christie
Sprewell
PJ Brown
Webber
Penny
Monster Mash
Vin Baker
Allan Houston
Sam Cassell
Van Exel
jason Kidd
Grant hill
Juwan Howard
Eddie Jones
Joe Smith
Mcdyess
stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace
KG
Damon Stoudamire
Theo Ratliff
Michael Finley
Kurt Thomas


they may not be superstars, but these are all the very good players in those drafts, I wouldn't call these drafts weak. Just that they were filled with people who actually knew how to play basketball, instead of athletes with no bball iq like modern drafts.

Yeah, looks pretty weak to me, and the strength is all at the top.

[Jemini80]

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Yeah, looks pretty weak to me, and the strength is all at the top.

how old are you? How does that look weak, those are all high quality players. Besides the year with Lebron and Carmelo, all the drafts have been top heavy and lacking two way talent that older drafts would produce.


using the criteria i used for 86-95, 96-05 has

Iverson
Camby
Ray Allen
Kobe
Nash
Jermaine O'neal
Big Z
Duncan
Billups
Tmac
Bibby
Jamison
Carter
DIrk
Pierce
Bonzi
Al harrington
Brand
Baron
Odom
RIp
Andre miller
Marion
Maggette
Artest
AK47
Kmart
Mike Miller
Redd
Chandler
Gasol
Richardson
Joe Johnson
jefferson
Gerald Wallace
Arenas
Tony Parkr
Yao
Amare
Caron
Prince
Lebron
Melo
Wade
Bosh
Kaman
Hinrich
David West
Josh Howard
Howard
Iggy
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Felton
Bynum


most of the guys towards the bottom of this lists aren't even locks for great careers because they are so young.

this probably has more names you recognize, but the list is also top heavy, and the depth is also stronger in the 86-95 one. Not to mention the fact that you casually leave out the drafts of the couple years before with Ewing, Hakeem, MJ, Mullin, Oakley, Malone, Dumars, Barkley, Stockton, etc...

the 96-05 drafts are either huge hits like the 03 draft with Bron & Co, or absolute duds.

to say the drafts had more talented players in 96-05, is pure ignorance to the players of the past. I mean people seem to forget how amazing Glen Rice was, and how much more he would dominate if he played now in a game completely built for offensive players. He would be at a Carmelo like level of offensive dominance. People forget that Rice would go head to head in playoff series against Jordan.

[Nate505]

believe it or not, steve francis was a very, very good player. he was super athletic, and he could take you out 9-10 times in an isolation situation.
he had a fair number of points, rebounds, and assists in his first couple of years with houston.
it all started after he got traded. from being allstar swapped for t-mac, to being the biggest bench warmer in the NBA.

i can understand a player being older, and losing some game, but come on....he was a top 3 pick in the draft, and he PROVED he belonged in the NBA...he was an allstar starter, hes had career games, and now hes suddenly just done.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO STEVE FRANCIS?

ps- i dont remember him going thru any MAJOR injuries either.

What happened? He's one of the dumbest people to ever lace them up, at least in terms of basketball smarts (although I doubt the guy is a Rhodes Scholar either). When his athleticism left him, he didn't have the benefit of learning from experience to fall back on like most NBA players do (or at least the one's that do possess basketball IQ). Therefore, he turned into a pile of suck.

[Tha Trillest Candidate]

quad muscle came off the bone so he's riding the pine till next year and knee tendinitis also... and yes he is a big pill popper or was one at least i've remembered seeing him dancing on tables in a club in vip taking his shirt off and doing some real quasi-homo ****... after seeing that i never used a fake ID again

[Doctor MJ]

this probably has more names you recognize, but the list is also top heavy, and the depth is also stronger in the 86-95 one. Not to mention the fact that you casually leave out the drafts of the couple years before with Ewing, Hakeem, MJ, Mullin, Oakley, Malone, Dumars, Barkley, Stockton, etc...

Leaving them off could be said to be the entire point dude (though since I pick a decade long span, accusations of cherry picking seem bizarre regardless). Consider that when I say the league got weaker due to the 86-95 drafts, I must be implying that the league was stronger when based around pre-86 drafts.

Bottom line: It wasn't a statement about now being better than the past, but simply pointing out a relative lull in between peaks.

One thing I will say though as you're mentioning such a long list of players: By no means did I mean to imply that the 50th best player from one era was way worse than the 50th best from another. The meat of the league doesn't vary that drastically.