Since let out of the cage

[Nowak008]

Mo:

22.5 PTS
47 FG%
100 FT%
38 3FG%
5 RBs
5.5 AST
2.75 TO

Redd:

28 PTS
51FG%
80FT%
37.5 3FG%
3.25 RBs
2.25 AST
2.75 TO

Team record: 3-1

I have been wanting to make this team uptempo all year, and now that they have the offense doesn't look terrible. You can't win with just guards scoring all the points, there has to be some balance.

However most of the elite teams right now score most of their points on the perimeter and have a post presence.

Pistons- Billups/Hamilton/Sheed
Boston- Ray/Peirce/KG
Spurs- Ginobli/Paker/Duncun
Hornets- Paul/Peja/West
Lakers- Kobe/Gasol
Mavs- Howard/Terry/Dirk
Jazz- D Will/Korver/Boozer

We have 2 elite scores on the perimeter and Bogut can get healthy and return to January form we will have something. Obviously we have a long way to go from a talent perspective compared to those teams, however having 2 good perimeters scoring options is vital and we have that.

[beyond_the_arc]

Take a look at those god-awful Assist to TO ratios, this is nothing more than a mirage.

[DH34Phan]

So we should or shouldn't build around Bogut?

[Nowak008]

So we should or shouldn't build around Bogut?

This thread isn't really about him. It's more about how the best teams have 2 legit perimeter scores along with an inside presence.

[Bucks_Revenge]

also in the last 4 games.....


Bogut:

13.25 ppg
11.75 rpg
1 bpg
.75 spg

in that span also....along with our back court doing all the scoring we still have a legit inside presence.

[trwi7]

also in the last 4 games.....


Bogut:

13.25 ppg
11.75 rpg
1 bpg
.75 spg

in that span also....along with our back court doing all the scoring we still have a legit inside presence.

Not really since Bogut is only shooting 37.3% in the past four games.

[Bucks_Revenge]

-= original quote snipped =-



Not really since Bogut is only shooting 37.3% in the past four games.

yea i saw that I tried to ignore that awful fact ...thanks allot twi7.

that can be the cause of playing against

Sheed + pistons co.
Camby
Ben Wallace

Not the easiest centers to go up against, he should have a better shooting day against the Nets, but then he has to go up against Kurt Thomas and Duncan not the best 6 game span for Bogut for match-ups anyway.

[Fort Minor]

We shouldn't be comparing Mo/Redd to most of those guard combos. Each one of those ocmbinations have at least a) one guy that can play good defense and b) is near or is considered to be an "elite playmaker." Including Dallas, since you decided to leave off Kidd.

I agree with those who say this offense is the best for the current time, but we shouldn't let its early success make us believe Mo/Redd are comparable to any of those far more successful guard combos. They're not. And this style of play hasn't led us (or any other team, really) anywhere noteworthy over the past 6 years.

For this to truly work in the future without the team being mediocre, one of Mo or Redd must become a "good" defender and one of them must also at least get near the level of "elite playmaker."

But for now it works. And if the organization wants to go itno "win now" mode, go for it.

[BuckFan25226]

Nowak, actually you have to throw in the NOH game at the BC. That was the game right after the behind closed door meeting happened in which Coach K said something to the effect of "Fine, we'll do it your way, we need to win now". Forget Mo and Redd for a second.....


In the last 5 games as a team they are averaging 106ppg, are 3-2 against very quality opponents..

So we should or shouldn't build around Bogut?

No, we shouldn't build around Bogut. We shouldn't build around anyone on this team. Bogut would be a solid piece, but you build around LeBron James, Tim Duncan, KG, Dwight Howard. Bogut isn't anywhere near those players and never will be.

I also loved how the Bucks were still getting ripped because they scored a lot against Denver, as if that was just an aberration. Forget Denver, we're still at 103.8 ppg as a team against 3 very good defensive teams in NOH(5th), Detroit x 2(1st), Cleveland(11th).

Take a look at those god-awful Assist to TO ratios, this is nothing more than a mirage.

Please tell me what his A/TO ratio matters when the past 5 games he's putting up..

21ppg
6.2apg
4.8rpg
2.8TO's
49%FG
41%3P

Unfortunately we now see the style of ball this squad should have been playing all year. We don't have good enough big men to warrant a slow it down, grind it out type of game. Who knows what will happen from here on out, we might just go back into the crapper and start losing games at a rapid pace again. But at least we see what happens when this team is given the green light to get up and go.

[raferfenix]

The Mo/Redd tandem is one of the very worst defensive duos in the league. Having perimeter scoring is very important, but I just don't see our team ever getting very far with the lazy chuck brother backcourt.

[Debit One]

The Mo/Redd tandem is one of the very worst defensive duos in the league. Having perimeter scoring is very important, but I just don't see our team ever getting very far with the lazy chuck brother backcourt.

This is precisely the problem that I have with the Chuckapalooza Brothers. Acquiescing to their wishes regarding offensive strategy will win a couple of additional games in the short-term, but I think that it guarantees us mediocrity in the long-term. In other words, it is doomed to be prone to inconsistency.

Consistent teams have inside scoring and play good defense.

[fam3381]

Bogut's still getting touches even with Mo/Redd scoring, so I have no complaints about balance....it's just up to Bogut to actually do something when he does get the ball down low. Redd's numbers especially won't be maintained (51% shooting), but Bogut also won't be shooting 37% normally.

[Pressey]

I think Mo is one of the biggest problems with this team. Yes he can score, when his jump shot is on, but he is not a point guard. It is the same problem we debated before the Bucks resigned him. Mo is a combo guard who would probably be one of the best 6th men in the league but he is not a championship caliber point guard. He plays terrible defense, has poor decision making and playmaking abilities and is a shoot first player. It also appears, from the various stories, etc, that he is starting to become an issue in the locker room. He has gotten into a few altercations with guys on the team,and pulled the "sit down and shut up you are still on your rookie contract" move with Bogut in one of the team meetings.

I keep going back to the same points, that this team was successful when we:

A) Had a proven coach and GM in Karl and Grunfeld (yes, the talent was different but that team was constructed the same Bucks way-reliant on outside shooting and terrible defense.

B) Had a legitmate point guard in TJ Ford. That team in Porter's first year was not as talented as this team but players knew their roles, they had an identity.

Some of the lack of team continuity and identity can be attributed to Coach K and his system, but your point guard needs to run the system and get everyone involved. Mo doesn't do that. He is a shooting guard stuck in a point guard's body. They have 3 in a row, which is great, but they also can drop the next 4. They are too reliant on quick shots and outside shooting.

[showtimesam]

So far the uptempo offense has shown a little more balance then before.

Mo did a pretty nice job finding bogut and dez, and overall it seemed lik all 5 guys were involved.

I'm fine going up tempo the rest of the season and seeing how it works. As long as Mo and Redd keep bogut and the other guys involved (especially when shots aren't falling) it could get the bucks in the playoffs this year.

I for one still want this team to win games, and make a playoff push.

[BuckFan25226]

The Mo/Redd tandem is one of the very worst defensive duos in the league. Having perimeter scoring is very important, but I just don't see our team ever getting very far with the lazy chuck brother backcourt.

Great, nobody, and I mean nobody here is going to debate anything you just said. That topic has been beaten to death here. But we're talking about this year, right now, this team. This is the team we have, so let's at least allow the team to do what it does best.

This is precisely the problem that I have with the Chuckapalooza Brothers. Acquiescing to their wishes regarding offensive strategy will win a couple of additional games in the short-term, but I think that it guarantees us mediocrity in the long-term. In other words, it is doomed to be prone to inconsistency.

Again, nobody is debating that. But "Chuckapalooza" and "The Chuck Brother" offense gives us the best chance to win right now.

Consistent teams have inside scoring and play good defense.

And the sun is hot. Here is the problem, we don't have anyone that is good enough at scoring inside to run an offense around. Bogut is not near as good a passer on the low block as he is on the high block facing up. And still, in his third year, his back to the basket game is much to be desired. I'm all for blowing it up and finding players who will play defense, as well as a proven low post threat next to Bogut. But right now we don't have that.

[unklchuk]

If someone had said Mo was going to free himself from having to think a lot and just play, I would have expected a boring, limited offense.

The opposite has been the case. Yes, he's on a hot streak, but "just playing" probably stimulated that streak.

Seems like a case of Player Knows Best. Not in the sense of what the team needs at PG to contend, but in the sense of Coach K having to learn what he can and cannot ask of his players.

[Nowak008]

The Mo/Redd tandem is one of the very worst defensive duos in the league. Having perimeter scoring is very important, but I just don't see our team ever getting very far with the lazy chuck brother backcourt.

Lazy? That's just garbage.


They might be the be one of the worst defensive duos in the league, but they might be the best pure scoring back court in the league.

A) Had a proven coach and GM in Karl and Grunfeld (yes, the talent was different but that team was constructed the same Bucks way-reliant on outside shooting and terrible defense.

What does this have to do with anything?

B) Had a legitmate point guard in TJ Ford. That team in Porter's first year was not as talented as this team but players knew their roles, they had an identity.

So Mo can't be a championship PG, but TJ can? OK.

Some of the lack of team continuity and identity can be attributed to Coach K and his system, but your point guard needs to run the system and get everyone involved. Mo doesn't do that. He is a shooting guard stuck in a point guard's body. They have 3 in a row, which is great, but they also can drop the next 4. They are too reliant on quick shots and outside shooting.

Did you read this thread or decide to rehash everything that is always talked about on this board?

[Stopshere2]

Seems like a case of Player Knows Best. Not in the sense of what the team needs at PG to contend, but in the sense of Coach K having to learn what he can and cannot ask of his players.

Agreed and it is simply a case of smart teams don't ask their players to do things they cannot do.

The Bucks may be becomng smarter regardless of whether that will make them good enough to reach the finals or make some waves if they get there.

[Mags FTW]

Let's face it, the Bucks have entered Golden State-mode. They'll score. They'll entertain. They'll fight for one of the final playoff seeds. But they don't have the defense or post play to be serious contenders.

[ReasonablySober]

Let's face it, the Bucks have entered Golden State-mode. They'll score. They'll entertain. They'll fight for one of the final playoff seeds. But they don't have the superstar needed to be serious contenders.

Fixed.

That's the bottom line, isn't it?

Yes, everyone wants that well rounded team that plays D and owns the paint, but in reality, what you need is a MVP level talent. Now, most guys of that caliber play defense and many play the PF or C position. Unless we're talking about Steve Nash, they also demand their teammates give effort on defense as well.

But a team with good post play and solid defenders isn't enough when you're up against the Duncan's and Garnett's and Lebron's of the league.