Our shooting guard for the next 5 years

[UptownPhilly]

Does anyone else feel like there really hasnt been much in terms of good solid sgs in recent drafts...i mean i can think of 3 maybe 4 pretty good ones in iggy, kevin martin, montae (2nd rnd pick), and maybe ben gordon

Not sure if they're playing the 2 guard now, but Brandon Roy and Randy Foye.

[SendEm]

Monta is a superior offensive player than Iggy. Montae is one of the absolute best finishers that I have ever seen in my whole entire life. He is extraordinarily gifted around the basket and he STILL has room to improve. Monta could average 22+ ppg if he played for the Sixers RIGHT NOW. Monta is about 25 times better than Lou Williams and we all see the opportunities that Lou Will receives in this offense which is a fast break offense just like Golden State's. Put Monta in the same backcourt with Andre Miller in this same offense and we will make noise in the East for the next few years ESPECIALLY if we get a PF.

Monta may only be 6'3 but he plays like he's 6'7" on offense and I have NEVER seen him be treated like a midget by taller guards when he's playing defense. Nelly doesn't require any of the Warriors to even play defense until situations like the game being tight in the 4th quarter.

Monta has no comparison in the history of the NBA. He is a special player and he is writing his own chapter right now, all he has to do is continue to get better and develop more consistency on his outside shot as his athleticism decreases over his career.

Monta Ellis is shooting .532% from the field this season while averaging 19.1 ppg 1.84 turnovers 3.6 assists 1.3 steals 4.4 rebounds
in 36 minutes per game
Iguodala is shooting .450% 19.5 ppg 2.91 turnovers 2.1 steals 4.6 assists 5.7 rebounds in 39 minutes per game

Monta is the better player he shoots over .500% WTF!!!!!!!!

Igu

[SendEm]

Does anyone else feel like there really hasnt been much in terms of good solid sgs in recent drafts...i mean i can think of 3 maybe 4 pretty good ones in iggy, kevin martin, montae (2nd rnd pick), and maybe ben gordon

It depends on what you call "recent drafts." 5 years is recent to me. Here's a list of players that can play the SG position without the BS talk of "He's not a classic SG"
Dwayne Wade
Leandro Barbosa
Josh Howard
Lebron James
Ben Gordan
Iggy
Kevin Martin
Monta Ellis
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
Kevin Durant

That's plenty of SG's to go along with the players that were already in the NBA prior to the last 5 seasons.

[philbe311]

Iguodala... Mainly for defensive reasons...

[Sandalf42]

This isn't even close. Igoudola. Ellis is playing in a system that bloats numbers, does give you NEARLY as much as Igoudola, and he might cost more money than Igoudola.

Not even close

[Skates]

Monta may only be 6'3 but he plays like he's 6'7" on offense and I have NEVER seen him be treated like a midget by taller guards when he's playing defense. Nelly doesn't require any of the Warriors to even play defense until situations like the game being tight in the 4th quarter.

That's the point isn't it. He plays on a team where defense is not required. I don't want a team that "makes noise" like Golden State makes noise. They snuck into the playoffs last year and beat the Mavs based on matchups, they ahd beaten the Mavs all year long. They are never a threat to win a title or even go deep into the playoffs. The Warriors are a gimmick team like the Denver Nuggets of old.

I like Ellis, he is a remarkably efficient offensive player, but it is a lot easier to play offense when you are not expending a lot of energy on the defensive end. The Warriors score 110 ppg and give up 108 ppg. The Sixers give up 95 ppg. The Sixers are trying to be a running team, but they play scrambling all-out, if sometimes ineffective, defense that leads to offense, while GS simply tries to outscore you. Ellis is a very good player, but he's not some once in a life-time kind of player. I'll take Iggy any day, although Ellis is a more than decent alternative.

[SendEm]

-= original quote snipped =-



That's the point isn't it. He plays on a team where defense is not required. I don't want a team that "makes noise" like Golden State makes noise. They snuck into the playoffs last year and beat the Mavs based on matchups, they ahd beaten the Mavs all year long. They are never a threat to win a title or even go deep into the playoffs. The Warriors are a gimmick team like the Denver Nuggets of old.

I like Ellis, he is a remarkably efficient offensive player, but it is a lot easier to play offense when you are not expending a lot of energy on the defensive end. The Warriors score 110 ppg and give up 108 ppg. The Sixers give up 95 ppg. The Sixers are trying to be a running team, but they play scrambling all-out, if sometimes ineffective, defense that leads to offense, while GS simply tries to outscore you. Ellis is a very good player, but he's not some once in a life-time kind of player. I'll take Iggy any day, although Ellis is a more than decent alternative.

Iggy is not a defensive stopper by any means.
We all have witnessed Iguodala being abused by other perimeter players while he was playing his VERY overrated defense on them.
Any contribution that Iggy makes on defense is TRUMPED by Monta shooting .532% from the field. Monta is special, Iggy is not. Like I said before if Monta were swapped for Iggy, Monta would average 22+ points here. Iggy would struggle in Golden State because he can't shoot the 3 point shot and he is terrible with penetrating to the basket in the half court. He would struggle just like Pietrus. Monta carves through the opposition's defense like a hot knife through butter in the half court, that's why they got rid of Jason Richardson.

In a couple of seasons everyone in this thread talking about Iggy being better than Monta will look like complete morons.

[Mik317]

Hey Looks guys it's SendEM! Hey why is it that you never show up in the game threads when Iggy plays great.......eh?


Iggy is now averaging 20 pts a game and is shootinf 45% from the field. and if you think Monta ellis is a better defender than Iggy your just silly. Monta is a better scorer than iggy, yes he is. BUT he doesn't bring the other things that Iggy brings.

[dbodner]

-= original quote snipped =-



Not because he doesn't have a reliable 3pt shot but because he doesn't really have ANY reliable shot. He is best suited to be a slasher ... but the problem with that is he does not have a reliable finish. His only real offensive strength is finishing on the fastbreak. He just doesn't fit my image of a shooting guard and I think the Sixers may be able to get something they need more than a shooting guard.

However, I would not wish to replace him with Monta Ellis.

Iguodala has an eFG% of 42.1% on jumpshots. Monta Ellis 42.7%. I fail to see how that's a problem for Iguodala but not for Ellis.

BTW, your favorite SG willie green has an eFG% of 41% on jumpshots. Brandon Roy, who is a very good SG, is at 43%. Iggy's shot HAS become much more reliable this year (last year his eFG% was 37%). There are certainly SG's who have had their teams succeed with less efficient jumpers (neither Wade or LeBron are cracking 40% eFG% this year on jumpers, I don't see their fans bemoaning the lack of a traditional SG).

[freshie2]

DBOD...don't go throwing facts into this discussion.

[SendEm]

Monta is an extremely mentally tough player. He plays with an attitude and recklessness that many of the greats play with. Iguodala is a fairly soft player. Iggy is not trying to drive to the hole and hit the hardwood EVER. Monta will drive to the hole and break his neck to get the basket. His finishing ability around the basket is amongst the greats of all time. He doesn't have height to fall back on, just pure skill and athleticism. If Monta can somehow come into next season with a prime time 3 point jump shot he will be putting up 40 point games every week. There is NOTHING that Iggy can do in order to make himself a dominant perimeter player. Monta is already dominating and will only increase that ability as the years pass.

.532% WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[freshie2]

Monta is an extremely mentally tough player. He plays with an attitude and recklessness that many of the greats play with. Iguodala is a fairly soft player. Iggy is not trying to drive to the hole and hit the hardwood EVER. Monta will drive to the hole and break his neck to get the basket. His finishing ability around the basket is amongst the greats of all time. He doesn't have height to fall back on, just pure skill and athleticism. If Monta can somehow come into next season with a prime time 3 point jump shot he will be putting up 40 point games every week. There is NOTHING that Iggy can do in order to make himself a dominant perimeter player. Monta is already dominating and will only increase that ability as the years pass.

.532% WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So then Ellis is Iverson with a better shot and a few more inches? So then, after a few seasons, Ellis compares very favorably, and apparently better, than Iverson?

Still doesn't change my vote...my preference in building a team is versatile swing players who have the height to create mismatches. Anyone who paid attention over the past decade should have realized that one of the biggest issues with Iverson was his inability to consistently get a quality shot at the end of the game. Longer players (ie Prince) gave him fits, particularly at the end of games, and he never was a huge player in crunch time during the playoffs. Great numbers during the regular season, and even during the playoffs, except during crunch time when the defense is tougher, fouls are called less frequently, and having that height advantage is critical.

Ellis may be fantastic, but Iguodala has improved his shot this season, and is a gym rat that still has upside. Personally, in this comparison, I'll stick with Iguodala as a SG/swing player. If Ellis can balance the scoring and distributing better than Iverson did, then he may be one terrific PG...if he's smart, he'll pattern his game more like Isaiah and less like Iverson.

[Skates]

Monta is an extremely mentally tough player. He plays with an attitude and recklessness that many of the greats play with. Iguodala is a fairly soft player. Iggy is not trying to drive to the hole and hit the hardwood EVER. Monta will drive to the hole and break his neck to get the basket. His finishing ability around the basket is amongst the greats of all time. He doesn't have height to fall back on, just pure skill and athleticism. If Monta can somehow come into next season with a prime time 3 point jump shot he will be putting up 40 point games every week. There is NOTHING that Iggy can do in order to make himself a dominant perimeter player. Monta is already dominating and will only increase that ability as the years pass.

.532% WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure Ellis will get a max contract from GS if he's that good. He sure makes a young Iverson sound second rate by comparison. Truthfully, if I wanted a "truer" offensive SG to replace Iguodala, at this point I would pass Ellis right by and pick Brandon Roy, except that his injuries scare me, or Kevin Martin, who can bury the three. Yes, Iggy and Martin shoot a lower percentage, but neither is the third offensive option on their teams like Ellis is. Right now they both have to carry their teams offensively and also play defense at the same time.

[SendEm]

Iverson and Monta have very little in common to the TRAINED eye. They both approach the game of basketball differently. Iverson needs to dominate the ball and get his touches while Monta is a finisher. Just like there wasn't a true comparison for Iverson when he came into the league there also isn't a comparison for Monta. Monta is special, Iggy is not.

Lastly you NBA forum participators exist in some fantasy world where every player at the guard position that is is under 6'5" gets posted up by bigger guards. In reality there probably hasn't been a game won in the history of the NBA by a shooting guard posting up the shorter players in the backcourt of the opposing teams. I'm exaggerating a little bit but when you look at the games that have been won in that fashion the short defender was smaller than Monta. Ben Gordan is a smaller player than Monta, Kirk Hinrich plays smaller and softer than Monta, Iverson is smaller than Monta. I don't think that Billups and Hamilton would embarrass Monta like they did to the Chicago backcourt. Monta would also be a problem to guard himself he is shooting .532% FROM THE FIELD!

The really smart people like myself realize that the NBA is a perimeter oriented league. Teams nowadays barely even have 2 players on their entire roster who have any kind of back to the basket game. Some teams have entire rosters with no players with post-up abilities and some teams best post up player is a 6 foot guard (GS,Sixers). the SG and PG position are NOT the C and PF position where height is critical.

[Samson]

[quote="SendEm"]Montae is one of the absolute best finishers that I have ever seen in my whole entire life.


Monta has no comparison in the history of the NBA.

Here's the deal: I am not around very often anymore but I am going to try to be here, more often, and increasingly in the future.

I don't know you so I don't exactly have the 411. And I do not wish to argue with you or be rude. I believe some of the older peeps on this board would agree I simply have a reputation for calling it like I see it...that's all.

Those were probably the worst things I've ever seen in my life.

You guys know whats coming......It's been a while.......





Worst. Stupid Sentences. Ever.




Either you are very young and haven't seen much basketball, ignorant, or just plain Forrest Gump up in this beeatch...


But seriously, broham, did you just talk about positive NBA history and some young punk crossover gunner named Monta Ellis?

Worst. Stupid Sentences. Ever.[/i]

[Skates]

Having a 6' tall guy as your best post-up player isn't a trend, it means you don't have a very good team. The Sixers don;t have a very good team with Andre Miller as their best post player. You are right that wery few teams have real back to the basket threats anymore, yet GM's look for guys with height and length when looking for good defenders.Hmmm, could it be that shooting a jump shot over a guy like Jameer Nelson is very easy for someone who is taller than him. Sammy is very tall, but Reggie Evans is better at playing big post-up guys because bulk is important when playing down low. But to guard someone face up, having a heigth and reach advantage as well as superior lateral quickness is essential.

I thought it was kind of funny that you were going on about Monta Ellis as if he was some sort of major super-star, but now I realize that you believe it. For a comparison, even at less than 6' tall Iverson would have absolutely blown Ellis away at the same age. Ellis is going to be a star, but he's no superstar. When people start talking about the geat young players in the league Ellis is not even in the same conversation as guys like LeBron, Carmelo, D-Wade, etc. He's a second tier guy, hell I'd love to have him along with Iggy, but being a 20 ppg scorer, even a very efficient one, on Don Nelson's offense first, last and always team does not make you an unprecedented talent. Iverson was and is an unprecedented talent, Monta Ellis, not so much.

[Mik317]

[quote="Samson"][/quote]

dude holy ****..................I know you haven't been around alot but I'll be the one to fill you in......

SendEm HATES Iggy with a passion. Either Iggy blew him off during a autograph session or Iggy killed his dog. whatever it is he hates Iggy. SendEm once said that we could get anyplayer off the street and that they would give us what Iggy gives us. In the future don't bother arguing with him as he will only put forth more crap and evntually ignore you when you say something he can't refute meaning now he can make the board a **** of " Iggy sux bauhs" posts. so welcome back and unfortunatley get used to the stupidity.

[SendEm]

Having a 6' tall guy as your best post-up player isn't a trend, it means you don't have a very good team. The Sixers don;t have a very good team with Andre Miller as their best post player. You are right that wery few teams have real back to the basket threats anymore, yet GM's look for guys with height and length when looking for good defenders.Hmmm, could it be that shooting a jump shot over a guy like Jameer Nelson is very easy for someone who is taller than him. Sammy is very tall, but Reggie Evans is better at playing big post-up guys because bulk is important when playing down low. But to guard someone face up, having a heigth and reach advantage as well as superior lateral quickness is essential.

I thought it was kind of funny that you were going on about Monta Ellis as if he was some sort of major super-star, but now I realize that you believe it. For a comparison, even at less than 6' tall Iverson would have absolutely blown Ellis away at the same age. Ellis is going to be a star, but he's no superstar. When people start talking about the geat young players in the league Ellis is not even in the same conversation as guys like LeBron, Carmelo, D-Wade, etc. He's a second tier guy, hell I'd love to have him along with Iggy, but being a 20 ppg scorer, even a very efficient one, on Don Nelson's offense first, last and always team does not make you an unprecedented talent. Iverson was and is an unprecedented talent, Monta Ellis, not so much.

The Iverson/Ellis comparisons persist in this thread

Iggy, Monta, and Iverson are three completely different kinds of players but I wouldn't expect you off brand forum posters to have the trained eye to recognize that.

Monta= 1.finisher 2.mid range shooter
Iverson=1.scorer 2.playmaker
Iggy= Utility perimeter player who brings versatility to the table

I will say again that Monta Ellis hasn't a player that has ever played in the NBA that can be compared to him. This can also be said about plenty of the players currently playing in the NBA. The basketball skills of human beings can be as unique as facial features. The NBA has never had a Monta Ellis before. He's not amongst the elite of NBA players nor is Iggy. But Monta shooting .532% from the field places him in a special category. Iggy is just another good NBA player nothing special.

Many of you messageboard weirdos would be slobbing on Monta's knob if he averaged 26ppg and shot .410% from the field. You all need to STOP PLAYING FANTASY BASKETBALL AND RECOGNIZE THAT A HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE COUNTS IN THE REAL WORLD AND HELPS TEAMS WIN GAMES.

You fantasy basketball players out yourselves every time that you comment on basketball right along with the Iggy loyalists. Monta is shooting .532% from the field and somehow Don Nelson gets the credit for that? If his system were simply the cause the entire NBA would run his system.
No it's Monta's TALENT...

[chrice]

Mentally tough...yea right. I'd like to see Monta put up the same production on this team, without the same help he has in GS to spread the floor. Winning games is about differentials. You need to score and prevent scoring, the person who can do the best of both combined is the more productive player. Both are going to get about the same number of points a night, but whose more likely to get lit up? Good thing Monta has his 3 guys who take care of the tough assignments for him.

[SendEm]

If Iggy could actually play "very good" defense (excellent being the best) then people in this thread could add that in his plus column. But in reality Iggy only plays "good" AT BEST defense. SG's and SF have absolutely no problem against the Sixers with putting up numbers on Iggy's defense. Most of the time Iggy doesn't even guard the best player on the court as he has been billed to do as part of his responsibilities but that has not been the case this season. Iggy has also managed to get himself into early foul trouble on numerous occasions when playing against the upper echelon players at the SG/SF position and that has contributed to Iggy not guarding them.

What perimeter players have done against the Sixers over the last few games:
Hedo 20 averages 19.5
D Wade 33 averages 24.4
Hedo 31 averages 19.5
Knicks Blowout stats do not count for both teams The Knicks stink
R. McCants 20 averages 14.8
R. Gay 23 averages 20.3

Iggy is NOT a defensive player at all, he's JUST decent and good at times, but he's great in the passing lanes and that is overrated because it involves gambling that can get you beat.