Sonics - Why is Stern the bad guy?

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

If the Sonics do eventually move why is everyone holding Stern accountable. Stern has tried to meet with Seattle officials on talks for keeping the Sonics in Seattle. Talks have failed and the city is reluctant to fund a new arena. What more can Stern do? The NBA is a business first and foremost. If you are losing money in a business you do your best to try and cut your losses. If I own a footlocker in Toledo and it the business has a negative balance sheet I would debate a move, especially if someone advised me that opportunities would be better in Baltimore.

The people of Seattle need to stop crying. If you want your team then build them a new damn arena. Simple as that. If you take that step you will overrun Bennet in the PR department as far as caring is concerned and Stern would have no choice but to back you. If you dont build the new arena it just means more revenue lost for ownership. Why should an owner try to accomodate target market when it wont be reciprocated.

Everyone wants to make bennet out to be evil but the truth is your franchise/business model is in the red year after year. Your last owner sold bc he was losing money and if the owner right now was someone other then bennet hed be losing money as well. The business model in Seattle sucks and if the locals dont want to assist the franchise then their is no reason for them to continue doing business with you.

[wiff]

I am so glad you posted this thread, feel free to read this. This article will put things in perspective far better than I could do. I love it when people who are unimformed tell Sonic fans to stop crying.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080228&sportCat=nba

Now read this and tell me Stern is simply doing his job.

[black06eclipse]

As a businessman, a lot of times I do take the unpopular "corporate" side in things, because quite frankly it makes sense and yes it is a business.

But this is just flat our corrupt and ruthless for a long list of reasons.

On a sidenote whats funny is that I remember during the 96 Finals, it was partially billed as "2 state of the art arenas" both on display in the Finals. How shocking that 10 years later, all of a sudden the Key Arena is a dinosaur!

And this is coming from someone who has NEVER cared for the Sonics as a team. This is a big situation and it could set the tone for how franchises treat cities in the future.

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

I am so glad you posted this thread, feel free to read this. This article will put things in perspective far better than I could do. I love it when people who are unimformed tell Sonic fans to stop crying.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080228&sportCat=nba

Now read this and tell me Stern is simply doing his job.

Just finished reading it. I will say people in Seattle do have a lot of fond memories of the Sonics and the Sonics are a part of their life.

Few good points made were that Bennet isnt the bad guy but rather its Shultz. Bennett is just trying to bring a NBA team back to his hometown. You can't blame him as he has no history and affiliation with Seattle. Fans put the blame on Shultz for selling to Bennet who everyone knew had plans of moving the team to OKC.

How can you really blame Shultz though? Sure he made a bad decision in buying the Sonics without the foresight to determine whether or not the financial limitations of Key Arena would be a detriment to his overall bottom line. He still was bleeding money on the franchise and ended up selling for $90 mil less then what he paid for the franchise.

People misequate Stern's powers. He may be portrayed as a this evil mastermind who is omnipotent within all aspects of the NBA, but he has bosses just like everyone else. Stern answers to the Nba team owners and their desires. Every one of Stern's plans has majority backing of the owners. If Stern doesnt accomadate the owners then he can be pushed out of his position. Therefore Stern is limited in forcing an owner in staying in a struggling market.

He can't tell the owners they have to continue to lose money . He can try to be diplomatic and lobby his efforts but the bottom line is if diplomacy fails he has to accomadate the wishes of his owners.

[elbowthrower]

If the Sonics do eventually move why is everyone holding Stern accountable. Stern has tried to meet with Seattle officials on talks for keeping the Sonics in Seattle. Talks have failed and the city is reluctant to fund a new arena. What more can Stern do? The NBA is a business first and foremost. If you are losing money in a business you do your best to try and cut your losses. If I own a footlocker in Toledo and it the business has a negative balance sheet I would debate a move, especially if someone advised me that opportunities would be better in Baltimore.

The people of Seattle need to stop crying. If you want your team then build them a new damn arena. Simple as that. If you take that step you will overrun Bennet in the PR department as far as caring is concerned and Stern would have no choice but to back you. If you dont build the new arena it just means more revenue lost for ownership. Why should an owner try to accomodate target market when it wont be reciprocated.

Everyone wants to make bennet out to be evil but the truth is your franchise/business model is in the red year after year. Your last owner sold bc he was losing money and if the owner right now was someone other then bennet hed be losing money as well. The business model in Seattle sucks and if the locals dont want to assist the franchise then their is no reason for them to continue doing business with you.

Before further dismantling your uninformed assumptions, I have to ask you why a $550 million "state-of-the-art" arena is necessary in Seattle when a $120 million renovation will suffice in OKC.

[Goon_Slapper]

GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX, you oviously misunderstood the article. Schultz paid $150 million for the Sonics, and sold it for $350 million. With all the losses he incurred over the years, he still profitted $90 million.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2003145882_sonicsdeal23.html

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

Before further dismantling your uninformed assumptions, I have to ask you why a $550 million "state-of-the-art" arena is necessary in Seattle when a $120 million renovation will suffice in OKC.

If the Sonics are financially viable in Seattle then why did Shultz sell. Maybe he himself was sick of dealing with Seattle legislators. Maybe Bennet is upping his price for the arena to force a buyout but it still doesn't excuse the Seattle legislators for failing to work an agreement out with Shultz.

From my understanding building new arenas/stadiums in Seattle is an ardous process as the locals dont wish to pay for the arena themself. The legilation places sports at a low priority and they are the ones who should be blamed. They assume a team will just have to stay and that accomodating the needs of a franchise is only necessary at the 11th hour. People in Seattle dont care if a franchise is nleeding money. They only care when they threaten a move from the area. Maybe their efforts fall too late this time around.

[Scalabrine]

If the Sonics do eventually move why is everyone holding Stern accountable. Stern has tried to meet with Seattle officials on talks for keeping the Sonics in Seattle. Talks have failed and the city is reluctant to fund a new arena. What more can Stern do? The NBA is a business first and foremost. If you are losing money in a business you do your best to try and cut your losses. If I own a footlocker in Toledo and it the business has a negative balance sheet I would debate a move, especially if someone advised me that opportunities would be better in Baltimore.

The people of Seattle need to stop crying. If you want your team then build them a new damn arena. Simple as that. If you take that step you will overrun Bennet in the PR department as far as caring is concerned and Stern would have no choice but to back you. If you dont build the new arena it just means more revenue lost for ownership. Why should an owner try to accomodate target market when it wont be reciprocated.

Everyone wants to make bennet out to be evil but the truth is your franchise/business model is in the red year after year. Your last owner sold bc he was losing money and if the owner right now was someone other then bennet hed be losing money as well. The business model in Seattle sucks and if the locals dont want to assist the franchise then their is no reason for them to continue doing business with you.

Bennet is to blame, he is basically saying "Buy me a new arena, or I'm taking your team to OKC, then after you buy a new arena I want you to spend another 3000 on season tickets and go ahead and buy a Durant and Green jersey, and maybe a nice Sonics hat and t shirt. If everyone had the money to spend 10000 dollars do you think there would be enough fans that would spend it on the Seattle Supersonics? I think Bennet needs to invest some money in a new arena and I think its reasonable that tax payers pay a portion just to show they will support them. If the city of Seattle is unwilling to give any money to a new arena then obviously there isnt enough support for a basketball team.

Why dont they move the Hawks or the Hornets who cant sell out an arena even when they play teams like the Lakers and Suns (the Hornets are a top team in the league and cant sell out a arena no matter what the team).

I was also unware that Bennet was from OKC and had plans to move the city to his home town when he bought them. Thats something I think Stern could have stepped in on, but other than that I think his hands are tied, there isnt much he can do, he is around so for the owners and to make sure the league profits and if they arent profiting in Seattle then they have to leave.

[wiff]

-= original quote snipped =-



If the Sonics are financially viable in Seattle then why did Shultz sell. Maybe he himself was sick of dealing with Seattle legislators. Maybe Bennet is upping his price for the arena to force a buyout but it still doesn't excuse the Seattle legislators for failing to work an agreement out with Shultz.

See this is the thing when you don't live here you don't know all the details.

When Shultz was complaining about the lease the City actually faxed him three different viable lease options. So here we sat as fans waiting for Shultz to respond and get this worked out next thing you know bang the Sonics are sold for a ridiculous price where Shultz came out smelling like a rose after all this complaining about how he was losing money.

So the city published in a local paper the 3 possible lease agreements that they offered up to the Sonics. Hands down all three options would have made the Sonic money even with a crappy team on the floor.

But Howard simply took the money and ran.

Now Bennett says my door is open to conversation but no one is in the office and the phone has been disconnected.

And even though the city of Seattle has supported the Sonics for 41 years Stern is backing his buddy. That's the scary part. 41 years of support doesn't count for squat.

Say if tomorrow Bill Gates buy's your favorite team and says I want you to pay for a new state of the art 2 billion dollar stadium. And if you don't I'm going to move the team to North Dakota because his mom is a huge fan of that team. But since you won't build me the 2 billion dollar stadium they will just have to play at the local highschool gym. I know we might lose money and take a hit on PR but dang it's my team and I want to make my mom happy.

So what if you supported the team for 41 years and their is a local ownership group who wants to buy the team back and deal with the lease. I'm not selling it and I'm not going to sit down with legislation unless they are going to give into my demands.

[kandiking]

-= original quote snipped =-


From my understanding building new arenas/stadiums in Seattle is an ardous process as the locals dont wish to pay for the arena themself. The legilation places sports at a low priority and they are the ones who should be blamed. They assume a team will just have to stay and that accomodating the needs of a franchise is only necessary at the 11th hour. People in Seattle dont care if a franchise is nleeding money. They only care when they threaten a move from the area. Maybe their efforts fall too late this time around.

they just finished building safeco and quest fields. how can you fault a city for not wanting to fund 3 stadiums at a time. and since when is it the cities responsibility for building a spectacular (500 mil)arena for them?

[Optimus_Steel]

This is just soo wrong. Starbucks guy basically turned his back on the city that brought him his sucess. That is just wrong.

[cb4_89]

Im really pissed about this because this could happen to anyone. I like the seattle supersonics. Oklahoma Sonics? just seems wrong.

[elbowthrower]

-= original quote snipped =-



If the Sonics are financially viable in Seattle then why did Shultz sell. Maybe he himself was sick of dealing with Seattle legislators. Maybe Bennet is upping his price for the arena to force a buyout but it still doesn't excuse the Seattle legislators for failing to work an agreement out with Shultz.

From my understanding building new arenas/stadiums in Seattle is an ardous process as the locals dont wish to pay for the arena themself. The legilation places sports at a low priority and they are the ones who should be blamed. They assume a team will just have to stay and that accomodating the needs of a franchise is only necessary at the 11th hour. People in Seattle dont care if a franchise is nleeding money. They only care when they threaten a move from the area. Maybe their efforts fall too late this time around.

Ugh. I wrote a long respose to you but it was accidentally erased. But it seems others have done a pretty good job answering you already.

I'll keep it short:

The people aren't against participating in funding an arena. They're against an unfair level of participation. The Mariners and Seahawks deals were considerably fairer and those owners ponied up a lot more than Bennett. In fact, Bennett wouldn't guarantee anything.

The Schulz ownership group netted $80 million from the sale of the team. That's about $20 million a year. Damn good ROI.

Stern's one attempt at "working with" the city and state was basically an abrasive temper tantrum that did more harm than good. Since then he's done nothing to try and keep the team here and everything to pave the way for a move.

[Dtown84]

It's just disgusting, just about the equal to the Browns situation in Football, only there aren't immediate plans to get them an expansion team. I'm with the guy in the simmons article, Memphis and Charlotte keep their teams but a 41 year old proven franchise loses their's, that's some bull.

I couldn't comprehend the feeling if this was happening to any of Detroit's teams.

[UGA Hayes]

Exscuse me the city gave the team the original renovations and the Sonics signed a lease to stay in the city. If the team thought they were going to need a new stadium, they should have never asked the taxpayers to pay for the renovations.

Stern is a scumbag plain in simple. He threw his legacy away, its over, he should now be known as the worst commisioner in Sports.

[black06eclipse]

(the Hornets are a top team in the league and cant sell out a arena no matter what the team).

Not sure where you get your info but their crowds have gotten much better in the last month or two. They even sold out vs Memphis I believe.

[2poor]

The Hornets are close to achieving their third sellout in four games tonight at the New Orleans Arena when they play the Utah Jazz. Hornets spokesman Harold Kaufman said only 300 tickets remain as of Friday morning.

A sellout crowd of 17,931 - the largest to see a Hornets' game at the Arena - came out Wednesday night when the Hornets routed the Phoenix Suns 120-103. Last Friday, a sellout crowd of 17,714 watched the Houston Rockets defeat the Hornets 100-80.

Tonight's game will be nationally televised on ESPN and it can also be seen on Cox Sports Television. The Hornets are the third seed in the Western Conference after snapping a three-game losing streak on Wednesday.

All fans in attendance will receive a CP3 Jordan Brand poster as they enter. Chris Paul's first signature shoe, the Jordan CP, will officially launch nationwide on Saturday.

http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2008/0 ... _sell.html

kthx. leave the Hornets out of it. we have enough people from SOS (like the co-founder) running their mouthes about New Orleans.

Steven Pyeatt, get a clue!

[wiff]

-= original quote snipped =-


http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2008/0 ... _sell.html

kthx. leave the Hornets out of it. we have enough people from SOS (like the co-founder) running their mouthes about New Orleans.

Steven Pyeatt, get a clue!

As a Sonic fan I don't want the Hornets. I simply want my Sonics. I feel bad for Hornet fans hearing their team getting incorporated in this mess.

There is support here and a local ownership group that wants to buy the team back and deal with the bad lease.

If the NBA let's the Sonics move I don't want and expansion team or another team that has to relocate. There is nothing wrong with the Sonics except they have a crap owner who is trying to hi-jack the team.

[2poor]

As a Sonic fan I don't want the Hornets. I simply want my Sonics. I feel bad for Hornet fans hearing their team getting incorporated in this mess.

There is support here and a local ownership group that wants to buy the team back and deal with the bad lease.

If the NBA let's the Sonics move I don't want and expansion team or another team that has to relocate. There is nothing wrong with the Sonics except they have a crap owner who is trying to hi-jack the team.

I completely understand and sympathize with you and your stance...but when there is a faction that would happily throw New Orleans under the bus if it meant keeping the Sonics in Seattle, it becomes increasingly more difficult for myself (and Hornets fans around the world) to give a damn.

[Jemini80]

THe owner can do whatever he wants, he is the OWNER of the team. Stern answers to the owners, he isn't their boss. Basically the city of Seattle needs to give him what he wants or he will move, you can blame the owner, but the state is also to blame. Other locations give in to outrageous demands from owners in many sports.


this probably all ends with a local group buying the team for way above the actual value of the team, and then this owner buying the Hornets and moving them to OKC after they don't fulfill the attendence requirements.