The Retooling Thread: What do we do now

[CoolD]

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That's almost exactly what I was saying, yes. Love the Ceballos comment...

That's pretty (Please Use More Appropriate Word) comment. Ceballos was pretty mediocre rebounder blocking shots steals, Marion is not. Ceballos was crappy defender, Marion is not. Ceballos has no real athletic ability compared to Marion. Worst comparison of all time.

Last night Kobe was abusing Wade all up over the court. We put Marion on him, he had to take hard fadeaways.

[Flash4thewin]

Marbury makes alot of sense if you think about it. Marion and Marbs both come off the books the same year and we get a high lottery pick. Marbury can then be traded off as an expiring contract with no impact on our cap situation while we keep the lottery pick.

[CoolD]

[quote="tsherkin"][/quote]You were the guy saying how good the Ricky Davis trade was for the Heat.

You are the Shaq fan, that thinks Phoenix will get better with the Shaq trade.

How many times are you going to be wrong?

[CoolD]

Marbury makes alot of sense if you think about it. Marion and Marbs both come off the books the same year and we get a high lottery pick. Marbury can then be traded off as an expiring contract with no impact on our cap situation while we keep the lottery pick.

22 million. You think some other team is going to go for Marbury at that high price. Guy is used goods, just like J Williams.

If we are going to get rid of Marion, we might as well try get a good player, not some damaged goods. And getting 7th pick, doesn't guarantee a great rookie, is usually the first 3 to 5 spots, that could you impact players.

[Flash4thewin]

We could do a package of Marion + Blount for Marbury + Lottey Pick + expiring filler.

We keep a lottery pick that could be used to towards another trade not to mention get Blount off the books a year early and still can use Marbury Max expiring contract to get an a star player off a team that wants to cut its salary.

[CoolD]

We could do a package of Marion + Blount for Marbury + Lottey Pick + expiring filler.

We keep a lottery pick that could be used to towards another trade not to mention get Blount off the books a year early and still can use Marbury Max expiring contract to get an a star player off a team that wants to cut its salary.

I really like getting rid of Blount part. But don't like the part, of waiting one more year to have all the money and get our guy. No one is going to trade for Marbury, no team. So we will have to suck for one more year with Marbury, and develop the rookies while sucking, the thing I don't like about this thing, the year after, what happens if all the free agents that are available there is no real impact free agents that are worth the big bucks. Also if we keep building this team, and take to long to do it, I think the year Wade has the option opt out, he will, and decide to bail out on the Heat. We have to make a real quick rebuilding process, getting Marbury will stall that process for one year.

[CaliHeat]

Here is what I would do IF I was GM:

First off I would sit Wade for the rest of the season. Let him rest till the Olympics, so he is not prone to an injury or anything. After the Olympics, rest until the season.

I would not even think about resiging either JWill or Ricky Davis, let them walk.

*On draft night, I would pull a BLOCKBUSTER trade that would alter the franchise.

Mia Gets:
Elton Brand
Corey Maggette

Clippers Get:
MIA 08 Lottery pick
Shawn Marion
(Filler- Haslem or Blount if needed)

(I may eat crow but I just feel that Marion isnt a great fit here in Miami.)

Reasoning behind the trade is pretty simple, Brand gives the Heat a legit low post option and has ties with both Wade and Riley. Maggette gives the Heat another good SF to play along side Wade.

*In the 2nd round of the NBA draft the Miami Heat Select Joey Dorsey PF/C from Memphis.

PUT Udonis Haslem on the trade block. (I love the guy but he is undersized and is a better fit next to a big center like he was here for Shaq.)


IN FREE AGENCY:

**Sign Dasanga Diop (forgive the spelling)- Diop is a big that can block shots and rebound the basketball.

**Sign JCN- JCN gives the Heat a good backup type guard that can play along side Wade and help spead the floor with his shooting ability.

**Resign DWright to a reasonable deal.

Next years lineup:
PG: Banks / JCN / Quinn
SG: Wade / Cook
SF: Maggette / Wright
PF: Brand / Dorsey / Johnson
C: Diop / Blount / Joel Anthony or Earl Barron

To me, that is a NBA title contending team next year especially if Wade and Brand are 100%.

Banks and JCN can handle the PG position especially along side a guy like Wade. Maggette gives the Heat another penetrator that can get to the line but also shoot the 3 better than a guy like Marion. Brand is an MVP type player when healthy and would be the perfect low post threat for this team. Diop would give the Heat a anchor in the middle of the floor that would help Brand DOMINATE the paint.
(We also would have a great bench, Cook and Wright would lead the bench with guys like Blount and Joey Dorsey.)

What do HEAT FANS think?????

[Flash4thewin]

CoolD its not that team will trade for Marbury, they will be trading for his max expiring contract. Say the Clippers cant compete or want to rebuild (get cheap again) they could trade Brad or Kaman for an expiring contract. Then factor in the lottery pick from NY and you have the assets to get a star player while still getting blount off the books.

The only thing is we need a new coach since were rebuilding, Pat and rookies has failure written all over it.

[LEIF]

Here is what I would do IF I was GM:

First off I would sit Wade for the rest of the season. Let him rest till the Olympics, so he is not prone to an injury or anything. After the Olympics, rest until the season.

I would not even think about resiging either JWill or Ricky Davis, let them walk.

*On draft night, I would pull a BLOCKBUSTER trade that would alter the franchise.

Mia Gets:
Elton Brand
Corey Maggette

Clippers Get:
MIA 08 Lottery pick
Shawn Marion
(Filler- Haslem or Blount if needed)

(I may eat crow but I just feel that Marion isnt a great fit here in Miami.)

Reasoning behind the trade is pretty simple, Brand gives the Heat a legit low post option and has ties with both Wade and Riley. Maggette gives the Heat another good SF to play along side Wade.

*In the 2nd round of the NBA draft the Miami Heat Select Joey Dorsey PF/C from Memphis.

PUT Udonis Haslem on the trade block. (I love the guy but he is undersized and is a better fit next to a big center like he was here for Shaq.)


IN FREE AGENCY:

**Sign Dasanga Diop (forgive the spelling)- Diop is a big that can block shots and rebound the basketball.

**Sign JCN- JCN gives the Heat a good backup type guard that can play along side Wade and help spead the floor with his shooting ability.

**Resign DWright to a reasonable deal.

Next years lineup:
PG: Banks / JCN / Quinn
SG: Wade / Cook
SF: Maggette / Wright
PF: Brand / Dorsey / Johnson
C: Diop / Blount / Joel Anthony or Earl Barron

To me, that is a NBA title contending team next year especially if Wade and Brand are 100%.

Banks and JCN can handle the PG position especially along side a guy like Wade. Maggette gives the Heat another penetrator that can get to the line but also shoot the 3 better than a guy like Marion. Brand is an MVP type player when healthy and would be the perfect low post threat for this team. Diop would give the Heat a anchor in the middle of the floor that would help Brand DOMINATE the paint.
(We also would have a great bench, Cook and Wright would lead the bench with guys like Blount and Joey Dorsey.)

What do HEAT FANS think?????

I actually like that idea but would target Duhon ahead of JCN probably

[CaliHeat]

^^Why Duhon is Banks like to me. JCN is a sharp shooter like Sasha Vujacic (someone else I would seriously consider signing) to spread the floor.

[Wade2k6]

Diop and Duhon/JCN are not gunna be had for the MLE. One or the other will, but not both. I don't feel confident making a title run with Blount as the starting C, or if we get Diop, I don't feel confident with either Duhon or Banks starting PG.

I don't think we have our own 2nd round pick, I think it's the magics. That means Dorsey isn't going to be available towards the later parts of the 2nd round

[Flash3]

Is Marion really a good fit for this team, the way we currently run our offense? The moment he rebounds the ball, he's looking to run it up court, but it is only he who's running up court, everyone is half-assing their way up the court.

Marion just seems lost presently, IMO.

[CaliHeat]

How many times are 2nd round picks just thrown around. If you want someone in the 2nd round, its pretty easy to trade for him. Plus we got 3 09 2nd round picks we can use to move up or trade Joey Dorsey for.

[Wade2k6]

What would you guys think the chances of Marion opting out would be?

[Flash4thewin]

Maggette is going to opt out and is Sterling favorite player. It might be easier to get Brand than Maggette. The Clippers should have traded Maggette before the draft thanks to the emergance of Thornton but thats the clippers for you.

[CaliHeat]

Well if Im the Clippers I honestly consider this trade.

A lineup of
PG: Livingston (if healthy)
SG: Eric Gordon (our lottery pick)
SF: Al Thorton
PF: Shawn Marion
C: Kaman

Its not gonna win the title but its gonna be a pretty good team.

[CoolD]

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The only thing Kapono is better at is three-point shooting and that's all I was saying. Toronto relies HEAVILY on being the best 3pt-shooting team in the league and Marion would sabotage that quite handily.

That's all; Marion wouldn't have value to Toronto except as re-trade bait.

He ruins our team shooting theme, he can't create his own shot effectively as a first or second option, he's not a big man and he's not a prolific offensive rebounder (though he's good at it, he's just not the same caliber in this regard as a big).

So he brings none of what we need and that trade unbalances our team.

Just like he did with the Phoenix Suns, they couldn't get a three, they couldn't score a bucket with Marion.

Signature material.

[tsherkin]

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Just like he did with the Phoenix Suns, they couldn't get a three, they couldn't score a bucket with Marion.

Signature material.

*sigh*

You've clearly missed the point.

Marion is a career 34.2% 3PT shooter; I know he CAN hit threes but he's considerably WORSE at it than Calderon and Kapono and Calderon is a playmaking point guard while Marion gets shots created for him and does his damage mainly by running in transition and moving without the ball in the halfcourt.

The Raptors don't NEED Marion; on the wing, the Raptors need an iso scorer of greater caliber than Marion can provide and it would be senseless to give up the guy who runs our offense for a guy who cannot do the same, especially if we're ALSO giving up the best 3pt shooter in the league WITH Calderon, who's also a 40%+ shooter from downtown.

Why would we EVER sabotage our team like that to get a guy who gives you a hollow 18 and 10?

Marion is the best roleplayer in the league but the Raptors need creators and bigs, not a wing who is weak at shot-creation.

Do you understand now? I'm not disrespecting Marion, he's an All-Star caliber talent but in terms of value to the team, he doesn't have any for Toronto. Yes, it'd be nice to have him on the squad, but not at the expense of Calderon (who exerts a much greater impact on our team because of our point guard-centric offense and his perimeter shooting ability) and Kapono (who plays into our perimeter-based jump shooting attack and is a LOT better at than Marion).

I don't see how this is as ludicrous as you claim; what would be Toronto's gain in moving Calderon and Kapono for Marion?

We'd lose a 9 apg point guard who barely ever commits a turnover and is lights-out from the perimeter and has great chemistry with our bigs AND we lose the best 3pt shooter in the league.

What do we gain in return? A great player, sure, but at too great a cost.

It's a stupid trade from Toronto's perspective because it undermines our offensive capacity without sufficiently impacting any other area. The rebounding and D would be nice but he's not a shot-blocker and we'd lose too much on O for it to help.

[Mourning_Heat_33]

To Mia:
Elton Brand
Mike Miller
(pick exchange, clippers 7-10 for our top 3)

To Mem:
Blount
Wright
Future pick

To Lac:
Marion
Cook
Pick exchange (our top 3 for their 7-10)

Or however to make this work without giving up Haslem or losing a lotto pick from this year

Resign Mourning
Sign Duhon with MLE
Draft Thabeet
Sign Pietrus (somehow?)
Sign Eddie Jones
Sign PJ Brown


Get all these players who make sense and where at least one side has expressed interest or makes a ton of sense

Duhon Banks Quinn
Wade Jones
Miller Pietrus
Haslem Brown
Brand Mourning Thabeet

pretty much an 8-9 man rotation

Duhon 28 minutes
Banks 20 minutes
Wade 35 minutes
Pietrus 26 minutes
Miller 35 minutes
Haslem 30 minutes
Brand 35 minutes
Mourning 18 minutes
Thabeet 13 minutes

outside shooting, athleticism, defense (interior and perimeter), a team that can both run and play half court, etc.

[Flash4thewin]

There is no way you trade a top 3 pick for Brand coming off a major injury. Then to add insult to injury you put him out of position at C. He's 6'8. Morning only came back to win a ring, he wont risk his health for this team coming out of the lottery. Last thing you want to do is trade another first round pick, next year the wolves get our pick if its not a top 3 pick. PJ Brown will only sign to a contender, notice he went to Boston.