this offense is ridiculous

[airchibundo507]

I don't understand why melo gets phased out of this offense so much.

my guess is that karl takes melo out for an entire 5 minute period at the beginning of the second.

regardless...there was a 4-5 minute stretch at the end of the 2nd quarter that he didn't touch the ball in the halfcourt offense at all (except when AI gave him the ball with 8 seconds left in the half and he launched a desperation fadeaway).

HE IS OUR MOST COMPLETE AND EFFICIENT OFFENSIVE OPTION.

guys like kobe, lebron, etc. SCORE for their teams as well as FACILITATE.

melo is barely able to FACILITATE because he gets phased out often...whenever he gets the ball...he behaves seflishly because he might not see the ball again for a long perioid of time.

[JRMelo15]

Hmm...because guys like kobe, lebron are better than Anthony?

But you're somewhat right...I'm starting to question that the AI trade is helping out this team and Anthony's development...

[airchibundo507]

Hmm...because guys like kobe, lebron are better than Anthony?

But you're somewhat right...I'm starting to question that the AI trade is helping out this team and Anthony's development...

kobe is better than anthony...I'll admit. but it comes with 6 extra years of age and 5 extra years in the league.

defensively...both lebron and melo are on the same par.

offensively...melo is just as good as lebron in scoring...if given a chance.

prior to AI's arrival...melo was averaging 31.4 ppg on 51% FG.

playing alongside AI he is phased out of the offense for about 2 quarters a game...usually the second and the fourth.

[cavsfan_osiris]

I have no problem with AI or Melo. The problem is the West is just so tough. Denver doesn't have enough defense.

I don't follow Denver as closely as you fans over here, but if what I've heard that Karl nixed the Artest trade is true then Karl is to blame. Even if Denver sneaks into the post-season what type of damage can they realistically hope to do?

Nene going down pretty much ended any chance of Denver realistically contending for a championship.

[MELO4MVP]

BECAUSE THE IDIOT NAME IVERSON KEEPS SHOOTING. ITS UNBELIEVABLE

[airchibundo507]

BECAUSE THE IDIOT NAME IVERSON KEEPS SHOOTING. ITS UNBELIEVABLE

what did we bring iverson for? offense.

answer this question.

if he can't score (5-18 FG, LMAO)...and he can't facilitate (4 assists, 4 TO)...

why is he even playing?

he is a defensive liability to boot.

[MELO4MVP]

He's horrible and has no place on this team

[JRMelo15]

And you're saying that Andre Miller is better than Iverson? But I agree with you that he fits in the team pretty good (Miller).

[Fire BK]

Sixers fan here -

And i've got to say.... I don't miss Iverson at all. For the first half of his career, I loved him for his heart, grit, hustle and fearlesness.... But eventually it became clear to me that his basketball IQ is just lacking. He'll never be a true team player. He doesn't understand spacing, flow and good shot selection on offense. Truth is, he doesn't comprehend team basketball on defense, either. He cheats too much in the passing lanes, and it leaves the rest of the team exposed. In short, he doesn't play team ball.

Conversely, we've been incredibly pleased with Andre Miller's playmaking ability, leadership and professionalism. He seemed like an expiring contract at the time, but personally I'd like to see him retire as a Sixer. Every good team needs a floor general. I think he's tremendously underrated. I genuinely like Denver fans, having spent a summer out there, and attending several Rockies games . . . so I wish you guys the best of luck. But I'm afraid last year's trade might have been fool's gold for Rex.

[big123]

Don't worry, AI will opt out after this season so you won't have to deal with him anymore and he won't have to deal with the Nuggets. You can use that money to give Kleiza an extention and get a true PG, ah Miller anyone?

With Miller as the PG (big upgrade over Carter) and Melo shooting 24 times a game (which is only 4 more than now) and winning 44 games (which will be about 12th place this year). That obviously didn't work then and it sure as **** won't now.

Now with AI it won't work. So the Nuggs can't get over the hump with a true PG or a combo shooting guard.

I'm not saying AI isn't part of the problem, but when you add AI and go from Miller to Blake to Carter, you are severly downgrading at PG. No good team would get away with having Carter as their starting PG.

I agree that AI is part of the problem, probably alot less than some of you all think, but to say he is the only problem is sretching it for a team that hasn't done jack **** and was worse than now for a long time.

[Ballin02]

Sixers fan here -

And i've got to say.... I don't miss Iverson at all. For the first half of his career, I loved him for his heart, grit, hustle and fearlesness.... But eventually it became clear to me that his basketball IQ is just lacking. He'll never be a true team player. He doesn't understand spacing, flow and good shot selection on offense. Truth is, he doesn't comprehend team basketball on defense, either. He cheats too much in the passing lanes, and it leaves the rest of the team exposed. In short, he doesn't play team ball.

Conversely, we've been incredibly pleased with Andre Miller's playmaking ability, leadership and professionalism. He seemed like an expiring contract at the time, but personally I'd like to see him retire as a Sixer. Every good team needs a floor general. I think he's tremendously underrated. I genuinely like Denver fans, having spent a summer out there, and attending several Rockies games . . . so I wish you guys the best of luck. But I'm afraid last year's trade might have been fool's gold for Rex.

^^ Just a week or so ago I was reading people's dislike of Andre and how he should be traded by some of the 76ers fans...now the 76er fans love him? Give me a break. Sixer fans are notorious for turning on their stars and running them out of town. It must be nice to be 5-10 games under .500 and still make the playoffs. Its unfortounate that a player that basically carried that franchise on his back for 10 years and even got them to the Finals once can be disrespected by some of you "fans" the way that he is. You even go as far as to follow him to his next team just to hate. Again, give me a break.

[big123]

Sixers fan here -
Conversely, we've been incredibly pleased with Andre Miller's playmaking ability, leadership and professionalism. He seemed like an expiring contract at the time, but personally I'd like to see him retire as a Sixer. Every good team needs a floor general. I think he's tremendously underrated. I genuinely like Denver fans, having spent a summer out there, and attending several Rockies games . . . so I wish you guys the best of luck. But I'm afraid last year's trade might have been fool's gold for Rex.

Too bad the Nuggets lack that position the worst in the entire NBA right now and were actually worse when Miller was in Denver. That really doesn't really add up does it?

The Nuggets brought in AI to be a PG? A guy that is 3rd in all-time ppg and currently 20th all-time in points to pass to Melo every possession? Are you **** kidding me? The only one that's kidding themselves is Nuggets fans who thought AI was brought to Denver to be a true PG and cover up for Carters stupid ass.

[big123]

Getting to tonight's game....

Iverson was very unusual tonight. It looked like his head wasn't in the game for some reason. He was actually being lazy and not driving to the hoop like he usually does and settling for 3's and long jumpers. He only shot 3 FT's tonight because of it. Odd considering he is top 3-4 in the league at getting to the line. I was very dissapointed in his poor decisions and body language tonight. I can't say that I was really happy with any of the Nuggets effort tonight.

[big123]

One more thing before I'm don't ranting.

Look how this team is orchestrated. You have AI and Melo, then you have a bunch of AI and Melo wannabes. End of story. No role players or anyone to compliment the superstars at all!

This whole team is one ISO machine that tries to create their own shot. AI, Melo, K-Mart, JR, LK and even **** Carter.

Your turn and your turn and so on.....When you have that type of game, when it aint your turn, you have no drive or motivation to play any defense. I see it all the **** time with JR. When he hits a shot, he actually hustles and plays defense. That goes for just about everyone except for maybe kenyon and Camby (When he wants to).

[UNLVNugsFan]

It's hard to run anything but ISO's when you are playing a good defensive team, and your offense has no set plays.

[The Rebel]

-= original quote snipped =-



Too bad the Nuggets lack that position the worst in the entire NBA right now and were actually worse when Miller was in Denver. That really doesn't really add up does it?

I am so tired of this lie. The Nuggets points per game, shooting percentage, rebounding rate, and assist rate all went to hell after the trade for AI. Their winning percentage also went down. The only stats that went up were points allowed, shooting percentage allowed, and turnovers. For last season.

You want to compare the last two complete seasons? Take a look at 05-06 against this year. They are pretty comparable teams. The big differences is that we had Greg Buckner (who we got after he was released from a $3 million dollar a year deal from the 76ers) as our starting SG as opposed to Carter who is our starting PG.

Injuries were worse in 06 as we not only lost Nene the first day of the season, but Kmart missed 26 games and was worthless for another 20 or so, Camby missed 26 games, Boykins missed 22 games, Buckner and elson missed 10 games each, and Najera missed 18 games, also not even included in the list are VO Lenard and B Russell who were both forced to retire due to the injuries they got while Nuggets. This year the only injuries we have really had are Atkins who nobody on this board thought was worth a ****, and Nene, so I would say it was much worse in that year. Of course the big difference is that this team is now on track to win 4 games (although records at this point in both seasons the 06 team is better) more this season then they did that year, although I truly believe that minus half the injuries that team would have won a few more more games, and this team is just now getting into the brutal part of the season. The other thing that many of the new fans do not realize is that the last two weeks of that season the coach allowed the team to relax and played the bench more which directly cost the team several games.

AS for this team since the AI trade, everything I predicted has come true, and it breaks my heart. I stated more then once that people would be calling for Karl's head within a year, and it happened. I said that the offense would go from bad to worse and it did. I stated that it would negatively affect Melo's and the other young guys games and growth, and it has. I also stated that we would give up more points in the backcourt and our defense could not afford another subpar defender, and that has shown to be true. The only ones I said it would help were Camby and the other defensive bigs, and guess what he is having career years. Some of you want to come on this board and gloat that AI will opt out this year, I say good riddance, maybe the next coach can straighten out the young guys before it is too late and we are forced to go through yet another rebuilding joke.

[M.Balla]

AI trade doesn't look good now, but at the time you just HAVE to roll the dice and make it.

IMO, I would like to see this team with a coach that actually ran plays (Karl was awful before Iverson too) and AI as a full-time PG. Give him more responsability, force him to pass (of course you would have to designate some plays) and make him defend small guys. Talent is there.

[MELO4MVP]

I'm sick of people saying "put A.I. at pg and force him to pass". The position has nothing to do with it. If you're a basketball player you should know when to pass the ball. PG and SG are just positions. Just because your a shooting guard it doesn't mean you have to shoot all the time. Problem is, A.I. doesn't realise that and its costing the team. A.I. didn't make us better. We just added another star player. We`re only the 9th best team in the West. All that talk about improved record means nothing.

[MELO4MVP]

A weird thing I just noticed. In the last 5 games, Carmelo is shooting 48% but only averaging 23 ppg. lol 3 of the 5 games been in losing efforts

[noone]

I am so tired of this lie. The Nuggets points per game, shooting percentage, rebounding rate, and assist rate all went to hell after the trade for AI. Their winning percentage also went down. The only stats that went up were points allowed, shooting percentage allowed, and turnovers. For last season.

I said that the offense would go from bad to worse and it did

05-06
fg%: 46.1
fg% allowed: 45.4
TO: 14.8
apg: 23.4
points per 100 possessions: 105.5 (ranked 17th)
points allowed per 100 possessions: 105.2 (ranked 13th)

06-07
fg%: 46.5
fg% allowed: 46
TO: 16.5
apg: 23.4
points per 100 possessions: 107.6 (ranked 8th)
points allowed per 100 possessions: 105.9 (ranked 11th)

07-08
fg%: 45.6
fg% allowed: 44.7
TO: 15.3
apg: 23.7
points per 100 possessions: 107.5 (ranked 13th)
points allowed per 100 possessions: 104.8 (ranked 6th)

Because Iverson only played half the season last year and Melo missed a huge chunk of games, I'd be more inclined to use this seasons stats as opposed to last seasons. But even if you were to use last seasons stats, your analysis still isn't consistent with the stats (listed above). I'm also interested as to where you got the assist and rebounding rates.

Now for comparing 05-06 to this season. In 05-06 their fg% was up by 0.5%. Their fg% allowed was down by 0.7%. They average 0.5 more turnovers per game this season than in 05-06. They also average 0.3 more assists per game this season. So far pretty negligible numbers.

In 05-06 they averaged 105.5 points per 100 possessions versus 107.5 now. They allowed 105.2 versus 104.8. They've improved by 2.4 points per 100 possessions. Point differential (i.e. points per 100 possession) is one of the best indicators of how good a team actually is. Historically the team to win it all is among the tops in point differential.

Overall, they are better offensively and defensively now than they were in 05-06. The offense hardly went from bad to worse.

I stated more then once that people would be calling for Karl's head within a year, and it happened. I said that the offense would go from bad to worse and it did. I stated that it would negatively affect Melo's and the other young guys games and growth, and it has. I also stated that we would give up more points in the backcourt and our defense could not afford another subpar defender, and that has shown to be true.

Did you think people would be calling for Karl's head because he's not a very good coach and has always lost his team at some point everywhere he's coached or because Iverson was now on the team?

As stated above the offense hasn't gone from bad to worse. Just isn't as pretty anymore with all the alley-oops.

A team looking to contend often stunts the growth of young players. That hardly has anything to do with any individual player. Young players don't have as much freedom to do what they want and often don't get as much run or as many plays called for them. You either look to contend or look to develop your players and compete at the same time. Rarely do you find teams able to do both. And those cases are usually with players that are all-stars/superstars.

I'd like to see where you got the numbers for the points allowed in the backcourt, or at the very least actually see the numbers.

The defense couldn't afford another subpar defender, yet they're one of the best defensive teams in the league.