The Felt-O-Meter (all things Felton) *Merged*

[Rich4114]

This thread represents how Felton is doing as our starting PG since Mcinnis left. We can use this to track how we've done as a team and how he's performed as a player in this role. Let's please stick to this topic and just discuss his progress from now 'till the end of the season here.

Please sticky this if you think it's a good idea mods.

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Game 1 at Boston: Loss - 8-17 FG, 22pts, 7 rebs, 10 assists, 4 TO's, 1 Stl, 43 mins.
Yahoo! Top Performer

Game 2 vs Toronto: Win - 6-19 FG, 17pts, 5 rebs, 8 assists, 1 TO, 1 Stl, 39 mins.

Game 3 at Minnesota: Win - 3-11FG, 14pts, 1 reb, 10 assists, 2 TO, 2 Stl, 39 mins.

Game 4 vs Golden State: Win - 8-19FG, 22pts, 3 reb, 6 assists, 2 TO, 2 Stl, 41 mins.

Game 5 vs Atlanta: Win - 8-13FG, 23pts, 2 reb, 11 assists, 4 TO, 1 Stl, 38 mins.
Yahoo! Top Performer.

Game 6 at Washington: Win - 5-13FG, 14pts, 6 reb, 12 assists, 2 TO, 1 Stl, 42 mins.

Game 7 at Dallas: Loss - 8-14FG, 21pts, 0 reb, 6 assists, 4 TO, 3 Stl, 33 mins.
Yahoo! Top Performer.

Game 8 at Houston: Loss - 2-14FG, 4pts, 4 reb, 4 assists, 3 TO, 1 Stl, 40 mins.

Game 9 at Cleveland: Loss - 6-14FG, 14pts, 2 reb, 9 assists, 2 TO, 0 Stl, 37 mins.

Game 10 at Memphis: Loss - 3-14FG, 8pts, 5 reb, 4 assists, 2 TO, 3 Stl, 37 mins.

Game 11 at Indiana: Loss - 4-12FG, 9pts, 2 reb, 5 assists, 3 TO, 2 Stl, 36 mins.

Game 12 Vs Miami: Win - 3-9FG, 8pts, 3 reb, 10 assists, 4 TO, 0 Stl, 38 mins.

Game 13 at Utah: Loss - 6-12FG, 13pts, 0 reb, 6 assists, 0 TO, 3 Stl, 26 mins.

Game 14 at LA Lakers: Win - 4-9FG, 13pts, 3 reb, 10 assists, 4 TO, 0 Stl, 38 mins.

Game 15 at Seattle: Win - 8-15FG, 23pts, 1 reb, 6 assists, 3 TO, 1 Stl, 35 mins.

Game 16 at Portland: Win - 8-13FG, 18pts, 3 reb, 9 assists, 2 TO, 1 Stl, 34 mins.
Yahoo! Top Performer.

Game 17 Vs Toronto: Loss - 2-10FG, 10pts, 2 reb, 10 assists, 3 TO, 1 Stl, 30 mins.

Game 18 Vs Cleveland: Loss - 3-13FG, 9pts, 5 reb, 9 assists, 1 TO, 2 Stl, 41 mins.

Game 19 at Toronto: Win - 7-17FG, 21pts, 6 reb, 7 assists, 4 TO, 0 Stl, 39 mins.

Game 20 Vs Boston: Loss - 5-15FG, 11pts, 4 reb, 10 assists, 5 TO, 0 Stl, 39 mins.

Game 21 Vs Minnesota: Win - 5-11FG, 15pts, 2 reb, 11 assists, 5 TO, 1 Stl, 35 mins.

Game 22 Vs Minnesota: Win - 10-16FG, 24pts, 6 reb, 8 assists, 4 TO, 1 Stl, 40 mins.

Game 23 at Indiana: Win - 7-16FG, 18pts, 5 reb, 12 assists, 3 TO, 1 Stl, 41 mins.

Game 24 at New Jersey: Loss - 8-20FG, 18pts, 6 reb, 8 assists, 4 TO, 1 Stl, 43 mins.

Game 25 Vs Philadelphia: Win -6-12FG, 18pts, 2 reb, 12 assists, 2 TO, 1 Stl, 34 mins.

Avg: 5.7 fgm 13.9 fga 0.41 fg% 15.5 pts 3.5 rebs 8.7 assists 3.1TO 1.1stls 38 mins


Record - 13-12, 9 home, 16 away

===============================================

[BigSlam]

Only saw 3 mins of the Celts game so I can't comment on that one.

Raps game:

Didn't shoot the ball well at all. Got to the rim well. Fished ok. Made some good decisions with the ball. Even drove and kicked it out once or twice. Passed the ball much better in the 2nd half than he did the 1st. I'd give him a B- for the night.

[floppymoose]

From watching recent games, it appears that Felton is the bailout man on the team instead of Jason. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since Felton can put the ball on the floor a lot better. But it is deflating his FG%.

[fluffernutter]

I'd grade him as follows:

Celtics: A- (gave us a chance a win a game we should have lost, steady, good shooting, solid)

Raptors: C+ (steady, not a good shooting night, didn't hurt us, but probably wasn't responsible for the win either)

[DaBassSource]

I'd grade him as follows:

Celtics: A- (gave us a chance a win a game we should have lost, steady, good shooting, solid)

Raptors: C+ (steady, not a good shooting night, didn't hurt us, but probably wasn't responsible for the win either)

Fluff I agree with you grades even though it is very hard for me to play this game...there are to many factors in determining a grade for Felton...to me everything is on a curve because we as a team simply miss to many open shots including Felton. We really need to work on making make-able shots...

A- for the Celtic game is about right...for us to be in that game was impressive.

I would also give him a C+ for the raps game but I disagree with the reason. I think he out played the Toronto pgs and he and J-Rich set the pace of the game...I would take away from his grade based on his large number of missed shots...

[Cantgetright]

A- for the Celtics game ( hard to give anything higher without a W)
B- for the Raptors game. The Shooting wasn't good but, 8/1 Asst/TO ratio and a win is fantastic.

[DaBassSource]

Question....
Did Felton make this player better or did the player just do what he should have considering his opportunity and ability....?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bGwRqJqMTk

1.) Felton's prevous penetration on pick and roll causes the double team.
2.) Felton darts a nice pass to the cutting Hollins
3.) Hollins makes a nice on the move catch
4.) Hollins flushes on Moon....

That to me is why "making teammates better" is a matter of opinion...

[W_HAMILTON]

Well of course you would consider it an opinion, considering most of the reasons why you think Felton is a capable PG and worthy of being our starting PG for the next decade is based on your "opinion."

If they were doubling him most of the game due to his penetration ability, then you can say that he "made his team mate better" on that play because if that's the case. If it's a simple case of them failing on a simple trap, then it's not, because that play was made by Ryan Hollins. He received the ball about a foot inside the FT line, and it was completely up to him to finish that play. You do that with any of our other players, and it's probably a charge, or a missed shot, because no one else can jump over everyone.

I'm guessing that's the type of play where if it were anyone else on the team and they didn't finish like Hollins, you would be whining about his team mates and asking why can't they finish "easy" set ups?

Is that Jason Richardson standing at the bottom of the screen, above the 3pt line with the closest defender below the FT when the pass leaves Felton's hands?

Freeze it at 2 seconds, and tell me who looks to be in the best position to score. Like I said, I don't even "micro-criticize" plays like this anymore, since I don't want to look like you and fluffy in the game threads whining about every other play about how his team mates failed Felton and didn't make him look good, but since you brought it up...

[DaBassSource]

Well of course you would consider it an opinion, considering most of the reasons why you think Felton is a capable PG and worthy of being our starting PG for the next decade is based on your "opinion."

If they were doubling him most of the game due to his penetration ability, then you can say that he "made his team mate better" on that play because if that's the case. If it's a simple case of them failing on a simple trap, then it's not, because that play was made by Ryan Hollins. He received the ball about a foot inside the FT line, and it was completely up to him to finish that play. You do that with any of our other players, and it's probably a charge, or a missed shot, because no one else can jump over everyone.

I'm guessing that's the type of play where if it were anyone else on the team and they didn't finish like Hollins, you would be whining about his team mates and asking why can't they finish "easy" set ups?

Is that Jason Richardson standing at the bottom of the screen, above the 3pt line with the closest defender below the FT when the pass leaves Felton's hands?

Freeze it at 2 seconds, and tell me who looks to be in the best position to score. Like I said, I don't even "micro-criticize" plays like this anymore, since I don't want to look like you and fluffy in the game threads whining about every other play about how his team mates failed Felton and didn't make him look good, but since you brought it up...

Your explanation is exactly why it is an opinion... So you would think he should have passed it to a guy out on the 3 pt line for the shot instead of the guy going towards the basket making 3pts the old fashion way...I'm not saying which was the better option but if J-Rich misses the 3 then Felton did not make anyone better he just passed it to a guy for a missed 3...as long as Hollins makes the catch and goes up strong he probably is at the least going to get fouled. Making players better is a two way street...You need to make it easier on them but they have to capitalize with their own ability. This is not grade school basketball, they get paid to play just like the one passing them the ball.

[Paydro70]

It's often a matter of opinion, for sure. This was indeed a very ambiguous case. Felton made a nice pass, Hollins made a great dunk, and JRich was indeed standing wide open for 3 for the duration of the play.

Basketball is also a game of probability to some extent. It's true that if Felton had passed to JRich and he missed, nobody would have thought it a "great play," just like if Okafor had caught it and thrown up a short jumper or laid it up and gotten blocked by Moon, we wouldn't have thought anything of it.

Analyzing individual plays like this can be helpful, but inevitably it has a selection bias and a sample size problem.

[fluffernutter]

...Like I said, I don't even "micro-criticize" plays like this anymore, since I don't want to look like you and fluffy in the game threads whining about every other play about how his team mates failed Felton and didn't make him look good, but since you brought it up...

I could try to be polite, rational, and respect the opinions of others, or I can be like W_Hamilton. I think for this response I'll select the latter option.

[W_HAMILTON]
First off, if you want to troll game threads and find examples of myself "whining about every other play about how his team mates {sic} failed Felton" go ahead. Because you won't find any instances.

I would suggest you stop WHINING about people whom you claim do certain things but actually don't, and stop WHINING when a player you despise helps win a game, and stop WHINING when a pick-n-roll works, and stop WHINING when people with well-justified opinions differ from your own, and in general, just stop WHINING.

[\W_HAMILTON]

Yuck. I feel dirty.

PS: You might have been thinking about the following post from the Celtics game:

"I'm not sure if that was Felton's fault or Okafor's on the 2 on 1....but it sure was ugly.

Is there such a thing as anti-chemistry?

I know about dark matter..anti matter...antidote... antiseptic... anticlimax (don't do this to you wife)... anti-intellectualism... but anti-chemistry?"

Of course that implicates two people on the break. Nuts. Reality wins.

[fatlever]

we won. all starters scored in double figures last night. we also only had 7 turnovers, which is a season low. whether felton had anything to do what that, i dont know, but i'll take it and be happy.

[fatlever]

rich, i think this is a good idea. i will sticky this. please continue to update this thread. we can use this thread to monitor felton's play for the rest of the season and discuss how we think he played and how the team responded to his play.

Please keep all felton related discussion here.

[Paydro70]

Hmm, we finally have the be-all end-all Felton thread. I suggest you just keep this sticked forever, and move any new Felton threads into it as they arise.

[amcoolio]

Hamilton, we know you hate Felton, and will continue to do so for the rest of your life for having Felton instead of Chris Paul.

But if you are too stubborn to admit that Felton had a decent game as a PG last night running the offense, then I'm afraid no one is going to believe your opinions or rants anymore. You make good points, and in no way do I believe Felton's had a successful career for the 5th overall pick, but give a little where its a due.

[BigSlam]

I don't dislike Felton but I don't think he did a great job of running the team in the 1st half last night at all.

I think he did a great job in the 2nd half though.

[amcoolio]

Well yeah, thats what I meant. But the whole team was sucking in the first 1.5 quarters. Its obvious Mek and Nazr can't play together.

[DaBassSource]

It's often a matter of opinion, for sure. This was indeed a very ambiguous case. Felton made a nice pass, Hollins made a great dunk, and JRich was indeed standing wide open for 3 for the duration of the play.

Basketball is also a game of probability to some extent. It's true that if Felton had passed to JRich and he missed, nobody would have thought it a "great play," just like if Okafor had caught it and thrown up a short jumper or laid it up and gotten blocked by Moon, we wouldn't have thought anything of it.

Analyzing individual plays like this can be helpful, but inevitably it has a selection bias and a sample size problem.

The point of my post was not to show that Felton made his teammates better or that he didn't. Given that it was only one play...
It was just an example to illustrate how ambiguous the statement "making your teammates better" actually is.
I've seen this exact or a similar play run by Paul to Chandler... and heard the color guy say (might have been Mark Jackson) look at how CP3 makes his teammates better...also saw him pass the ball to an open Peja (one of the best 3pt shooters in NBA history) once again the credit was given to Paul for finding him. By all means I'm not saying that he is not putting them in place to make a play but this is the NBA most guys are pretty good given the right opportunity. My confusion is that Ham wants to say that if guys start to have better numbers that it is is due to Ray making them better...or if they under perform that it is also his fault However some of it might just be that without Wallace and Jeff, guys now have more minutes and are taking advantage of the minutes or not...He also wants to say that if they win more games that it is a sign of Ray making his teammates better...given our team is not very good at the moment and we have a lot of road games left, if we do win more games I would say it would take an over all team effort where everyone made each other better...

Here is to a good start making teammates better...we are scoring more...other players are performing and we have won 1 out of 2...

[Rich4114]

rich, i think this is a good idea. i will sticky this. please continue to update this thread. we can use this thread to monitor felton's play for the rest of the season and discuss how we think he played and how the team responded to his play.

Please keep all felton related discussion here.

Thanks, I'll stay on this after each game from here on out.

[W_HAMILTON]

And I think Antoine Walker is the best player ever to play in the NBA. That's my opinion. So, since it's an opinion, it can't be proven wrong, right? So, when I say that Antoine Walker is the best player to ever play in the NBA, I am not wrong, am I?

So, if you want to take that route, that everything you believe is an opinion, and can never be proven wrong, hey, run with that. If you put up a poll with random people and asked who "made" that play, Felton or Hollins, I'm pretty damn sure Hollins would win unless it was done on an UNC msg board. But that wouldn't matter, because if you polled 100 people and 99 of them said that it was Hollins who made that play, the one with the opinion that it was alllllll Felton baby would also be "right," since it's his opinion, and opinions can never be wrong, right?

So, it's more of a question of whether or not you are biased. If Jeff McInnis was the one making that pass, would you have highlighted it and said he was making his team mates better? Of course not. If any other PG was making that exact same play, would I say it was a "great play!" set up by the PG? No. Because the PG didn't really make it any easier on the player, again, unless they were doubling him like they would double Kobe or somebody with that sort of talent, and I don't believe that was the case there since Felton was not doubled much at all during the game. It was just a simple trap.

But this is a silly argument, because as I said before, things like this can be "quantified." Back at the start of the season, when we got off to a disappointing start, and had one of the worst teams in the league offensively, almost everyone on the team outside of Felton/McInnis/Carroll were posting some of the worst shooting percentages of their careers, our teams assists were among the worst in the league, and we turned the ball over almost as much as anyone in the league -- those are all pretty damn obvious signs to me. And it was an obvious sign to the coach as well, which is what prompted him to make a change at PG to begin with.

But of course, "your opinion" could be that everyone was just sucking all at once, or it was the coach, or it was this, or it was that, and opinions can never be wrong, right? Then it becomes a case of what facts do you have to back up your opinion with...if the team shoots worse, players shoot worse, we don't win more...what is the basis that Felton makes his team and his team mates better, other than your biased opinion?