4th Quarter: Bryant vs. James vs. Wade (Healthy)

[netsforever]

btw, this is like choosing who you'd rather take Jessica Alba or Jessica Biel.

You can't go wrong with either one (Alba or Biel) and you can't go wrong with either Kobe, LeBron, or Wade.

Currently, I'm going with Kobe (for obvious reasons). But, if Wade's healthy and given what he's been able to do so when healthy, I'll go with him; but that's no slight on Kobe or LeBron, it's just personal preference.

Oh, and I do agree with this as well. Didn't read this until after I read the statistical post. Heh.

I'd pick Biel over Alba anyday, however. Biel in Summer Catch =

[OhMyBosh]

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Oh, and I do agree with this as well. Didn't read this until after I read the statistical post. Heh.

I'd pick Biel over Alba anyday, however. Biel in Summer Catch =

I'll take Alba. She has a much prettier face

[netsforever]

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I'll take Alba. She has a much prettier face

Dude.


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/474870/jessical_biel_summer_catch/

Biel > Alba.

[Wade2k6]

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Your right he wasn't the leading scorer during the regular season, but I never said he was either. I said he lead the Heat to a playoff series win as a rookie, which he did. During the playoffs he was the leading scorer and the best player on the floor if you watched the games. During those playoffs he lead the team in ppg, apg, fg%, and 3pt%. What more could you ask for from a rookie? Second, Baron Davis was obviously the best player on that team. I'll take Baron Davis' 23 ppg, 7.5 apg, 4.5 rpg and 2.5 spg at the PG position anytime over a SF whose putting up 21 ppg, 6 rpg, and 2 apg.

My arguement against LeBron was during the Finals. During the finals Wade averaged 34 ppg, 3.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, and 2.5 spg on 46% shooting with 3.5 TO/G. Through the final four games, once there team was down 0-2 Wade put up 39 ppg, 3.5 apg, 8.2 rpg and 2.5 spg on 50.5% shooting. LeBron averaged 22 ppg, 6.7 apg, 7 rpg, 1 spg, and 5.7 TO/G while shooting 35%. If you didn't clearly notice the difference level of play between LeBron and Wade in the FINALS, then I don't know what to say.

They are both totally difference situations. Wade's team was up on its way to a commanding 3-2 lead in the series when Wade got hurt in that 5th game. If you watched the series the Heat had clear and total momentum through that point, taking a 3-2 lead with 1 of the remaining 2 games at Home. When Wade sat out the 6th game I think the his impact was pretty evident, considering they lost by 25 in Game 6. Kobe had a good run in the series, and I give him credit for that. I know from this year that it isn't easy for a player to play almost single-handily. But, the fact is he didn't win the series, either year.

Now if you want to say it's pathetic how his team is playing, I agree with that. But, once again, if you're going to let Kobe slide for not winning a playoff series without Shaq but ALMOST doing it, and LeBron slide for his team not being talented enough to hang with the Spurs, then why not let Wade slide for his teams struggles? Especially considering he's not fully healthy.

This question is basically who you have most confidence in. I have confidence in Wade taking over the 4th Q when healthy because he has done it on the biggest stage, and I see him play more often then I do LeBron and Kobe. LeBron fans will feel the same way, and I'm sure Kobe fans do too. And while I'll take Wade's 4th Q performance over either Kobe's or LeBrons, I'm not stupid enough to think this decision was "easy" or that I "didn't even think twice."

EDIT: Sorry I couldn't copy your responses from your post, something messed up I dunno.

[Flash is the Future]

Wade didn't run up against the best team in the West, his TEAM did. Wade's TEAM was better than the Mavs. I'm not discounting his performance in the finals that year in any way shape or form. However, Wade's TEAM was what enabled Wade to perform at that level. LeBron's TEAM, by any concievable measure, was not at that level. LeBron James averaged 25-8-8 in that playoff run. Dwayne Wade averaged 28-6-6. Is it not possible that, given the SLIGHT difference in their numbers, that LeBron could have done a similar thing to what Wade did in that playoffs? Taking that into account, the miniscule difference in what these two players actually did, is it completely impossible that maybe the TEAMS THAT THEY PLAY ON had a difference in the outcome of the series?

Huh? That Heat team was called flawed right from the get-go. No one thought it would work. Lebron played terribly in the Finals. Not just his team. He put up 22ppg, 7rpg, 6.8apg, 1spg, and .5bpg with 5.75 TO's per game. He shot 35.6% from the field. 20% from 3. And 69% from the FT line. Compare that to Wade's 34.7ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg, 2.67spg, 1bpg with 3.67 TO's per game. Wade shot 46.8% from the field, 27.3% from 3, 77.3% from the FT line. There's a pretty big difference. Sure, Wade played the Mavs while Lebron played the Spurs. But they both played the Pistons. Wade shot 61.7% from the field that series against the Pistons.

[Phil Jackson]

I choose Kobe Bryant

[Illuminati]

I choose Kobe Bryant

So do I but

[Guy Smiley]

Kobe easily. Lebron is going to have to do what he's doing this year for like 6 more years to even be mentioned with Bryant.

Excellent post. I liken it to a white towel being draped over my head which covers my eyes from the reality of the situation.

Based on the clutch stats this season Lebron is at least on par with Kobe if not clearly superior but I prefer to ignore what I have seen with my eyes and the stats that support it and pronounce Kobe as the GOAT.

With this white towel acting as a veil of protection from all embarrassment I can say with confidence that Kobe is the best player in the league hands down. I can also say he is clearly better than Lebron this year and years to come with 100% blind faith as this white towel shields my eyes from the reality that is expressed both in the numbers and the game footage that has been captured on tape.

[netsforever]

Your right he wasn't the leading scorer during the regular season, but I never said he was either. I said he lead the Heat to a playoff series win as a rookie, which he did. During the playoffs he was the leading scorer and the best player on the floor if you watched the games. During those playoffs he lead the team in ppg, apg, fg%, and 3pt%. What more could you ask for from a rookie? Second, Baron Davis was obviously the best player on that team. I'll take Baron Davis' 23 ppg, 7.5 apg, 4.5 rpg and 2.5 spg at the PG position anytime over a SF whose putting up 21 ppg, 6 rpg, and 2 apg.

I'll take your word for it about Wade's role in the series - I was busy watching the NJ-NY series and didn't really catch much of Charlotte-Miami.

But your statement about Davis is missing the point. Where did I say that Mashburn was the best player? He was the #2 guy. Missing your #2 option in a playoff series is still a big deal, and contributed significantly to the Miami victory in that series.

My arguement against LeBron was during the Finals. During the finals Wade averaged 34 ppg, 3.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, and 2.5 spg on 46% shooting with 3.5 TO/G. Through the final four games, once there team was down 0-2 Wade put up 39 ppg, 3.5 apg, 8.2 rpg and 2.5 spg on 50.5% shooting. LeBron averaged 22 ppg, 6.7 apg, 7 rpg, 1 spg, and 5.7 TO/G while shooting 35%. If you didn't clearly notice the difference level of play between LeBron and Wade in the FINALS, then I don't know what to say.

Absolutely. Wade in his finals appearance out performed LBJ in his finals appearance. But if LeBron had the other options that Wade had for support, it might have been a different story. You can't compare the talent level of the Cavs that year to the talent of the Heat the year before... Wade's teammates enabled Wade to play at that level. Would Wade have gotne 39-4-8-2 if he were Miami's only offensive option? I don't know that he would. But regardless... I'm not questioning Wade's brilliance in that finals.

They are both totally difference situations. Wade's team was up on its way to a commanding 3-2 lead in the series when Wade got hurt in that 5th game. If you watched the series the Heat had clear and total momentum through that point, taking a 3-2 lead with 1 of the remaining 2 games at Home. When Wade sat out the 6th game I think the his impact was pretty evident, considering they lost by 25 in Game 6. Kobe had a good run in the series, and I give him credit for that. I know from this year that it isn't easy for a player to play almost single-handily. But, the fact is he didn't win the series, either year.

"It isn't easy for a player to play almost single-handily."

Yes, you're right. But Kobe dealt with playing almost single-handily by taking a superior team to 7 games, while Wade has dealt with it how?

Now if you want to say it's pathetic how his team is playing, I agree with that. But, once again, if you're going to let Kobe slide for not winning a playoff series without Shaq but ALMOST doing it, and LeBron slide for his team not being talented enough to hang with the Spurs, then why not let Wade slide for his teams struggles? Especially considering he's not fully healthy.

I am letting Wade slide. To me, the Heat are not a playoff team this year, given Wade's status and the talent surrounding them. I'm not saying that he needed to make the playoffs when no talent has surrounded him - I'm saying that he should have won at least 10-15 more games than he has. As of right now, the 2007-08 Miami Heat are bad on an historical level. If they continue on this pace, they will go 15-67. Only 9 teams in the HISTORY OF THE NBA have had worse seasons. None of those teams have had a player anywhere near the level of Dwayne Wade.

This question is basically who you have most confidence in. I have confidence in Wade taking over the 4th Q when healthy because he has done it on the biggest stage, and I see him play more often then I do LeBron and Kobe. LeBron fans will feel the same way, and I'm sure Kobe fans do too. And while I'll take Wade's 4th Q performance over either Kobe's or LeBrons, I'm not stupid enough to think this decision was "easy" or that I "didn't even think twice."

Can't really argue with that....this thread turned into a Kobe/Wade/LBJ general discussion thread, and not a 4th Quarter thread. Mostly my fault about that, but eh... I never really get into this discussion, so this entertains me. Certainly more so than discussing how the Nets should tank for the rest of the season.

[netsforever]

Huh? That Heat team was called flawed right from the get-go. No one thought it would work.
Revisionist history... that Miami Heat team, once Shaq was brought in, was considered an elite-championship level team in this league.

Lebron played terribly in the Finals. Not just his team. He put up 22ppg, 7rpg, 6.8apg, 1spg, and .5bpg with 5.75 TO's per game. He shot 35.6% from the field. 20% from 3. And 69% from the FT line. Compare that to Wade's 34.7ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg, 2.67spg, 1bpg with 3.67 TO's per game. Wade shot 46.8% from the field, 27.3% from 3, 77.3% from the FT line. There's a pretty big difference.

Yes, there was a large difference. I'm just saying that the respective talent difference isn't between LeBron and Wade, but between their teams. The other options on the Miami Heat that season enabled Wade to play at that level. Give LeBron Shaq, Haslem, Williams et al in a series, and he'd play at a similar level (if not nessecarily the All-Time level Wade was at).

Sure, Wade played the Mavs while Lebron played the Spurs. But they both played the Pistons. Wade shot 61.7% from the field that series against the Pistons.

You really think that Wade's series win against Detroit was more impressive than LBJ's?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270531008

Really? More impressive than that? Scoring 29 OUT OF YOUR TEAM'S LAST 30 POINTS? Come on. That's just a ridiculous statement.

To me, LeBron's series against Detroit, pulling out a victory against a perennial title contender on their home court, is the most impressive series that anyone's had since Hakeem against SA in 1995, or Jordan's 91 Detroit series. Wade's series is up there... but he'd have to do the same thing by himself for it to have the same impact for me.

Game 3: 32-9-9
Game 4: 25-11-7
Game 5: 48-9-7
Game 6: 20-14-8

And all of that against the best defensive team in the league? With the #2 scorer on his team in that series being Daniel Gibson? On the road? Incredible. But that's just me.

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[Wade2k6]

That was my fault about the BD, Mashburn arguments. I thought you were referring to Mash as the best player, and missing another player. I mis-read it. I agree though, it's still a big lose.

I guess we both pretty much agree with the Finals argument, not much else for me to add.

My point about these last several posts wasn't to make Wade sound like the greatest or best player, but to just point out that all players have their flaws. Flaws from all 3 players have been pointed out between our posts, and throughout the thread.

[AIfan3]

To be quite honest.. There's no other guy in the league I want with the ball in his hands in the crunch than a healthy D-Wade.. I'd take him over Bryant as far as clutchness factor goes..

[Cigamodnalro]

[The MVPlaya]

Kobe EASILY. No one is going to take that title away from him unil they do it as long as he has. He is a true assassin, he's been able to consistently kick it into another gear for so long now, and has done it MANY times when it counts the most. Go ask any opposing coach who would they be most afraid of in the 4th, they will without a doubt tell you #24.

I'd probably take Wade 2nd from what I've seen over the last few years from him and in the Finals of course.

Bron Bron is doing his thing right now though, but because I've seen it more from Kobe and Wade and on the biggest stage, I'd have to put my trust in them first for sure.

[Harmless]

I'll say one thing.... Nothing makes me feel more scared than my team being up by one point with 10 seconds left, with the Lakers having possession and Kobe is holding the ball...

[halfHAVOC]

kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

he does EVERYTHING right in the 4th.

[Harmless]

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Well, Wade has won one series in a weak East before Shaq came.

LeBron's team ran up against a much tougher Spurs team, and didn't have the nessecary talent to compete.

Kobe almost knocked out the Suns twice, and the Lakers would have won at least one series in the East.

Take the following for what it's worth; just something I wanted to share.......

This West > East and all that stuff in the whole scheme of things is non-sense when you bring statistics into effect.

Just the other day on local sports radio down here they were doing a stastistical comparison of Wade/Butler/Odom (03/04) vs. Kobe/Butler/Odom (04/05) to show just how this West>East mindset at particular times is just that, a mindset with nothing else to bear.

The Heat in 03/04 vs. the East were: 30-24 and vs the West were: 12-16

The Lakers in 04/05 vs. the East were: 13-17 and vs the West were: 21-31.

They then took these stats (the records vs the 2 conferences) and extrapolated* them over an entire season and the Heat ended up with a better record vs. the West for the same amount of games a Western team plays against the West, compared to the Lakers, who had a worst record vs. the East for the same amount of games an Eastern team plas against the East.

So, based on these with 2 nearly identical players (as two can be, give or take) in Kobe & Wade, and similar supporting casts in Odom/Butler & others. The East team had a better record vs. the West, than the West team had against the East.

* - data taken into consideration without any outside factors

.........???

I have to disagree. With all due respect, when you need to resort to cherry picking data while ignoring everything else, it only shows that your argument holds no water. I mean, taking two different teams from two differents seasons? And then extrapolating the stats??? How far out is that? I realize you put disclaimers in your post, but still, I find it ridiculous of the radio show.

The West IS better than the East, and has been for the past decade. And I mean no insult in this. I am being as objective as possible.

[Pancho_Pantera]

Talk about a casual thread.

Hedo owns both of them noobs combined.

[MicrOLak3R]

Kobe by a few blocks. Then Melo........Lebron......Wade