goodbye tony allen (from the rotation)

YouAreBeneathMe · Post #1 » by **YouAreBeneathMe** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:32 pm

with cassell on board and with eddie house needed for his shooting say goodbye to tony, he is invaluable with cassell now in the rotation, i think people undervalue the impact cassell will make

DorfonCeltics · Post #2 » by **DorfonCeltics** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:35 pm

Well I think you're wrong. Tony certainly has been playing at a starters level over the last few weeks before his calf injury. Also, Tony does one thing better than any other wing player on our team and that's play lock down defense. That is a very important skill come playoff time. Tony is also a great slasher with the ability to get to the line on a consistent basis. I'm sorry but Sam and Eddie house don't bring any of those skills to the table. If anyone is getting shunned out of the rotation it's Eddie who basically only brings 3 point shooting to the table. Oh yeah, who leads our team in 3 piont shooting percentage?

YouAreBeneathMe · Post #3 » by **YouAreBeneathMe** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:37 pm

DorfonCeltics wrote:Well I think you're wrong. Tony certainly has been playing at a starters level over the last few weeks before his calf injury. Also, Tony does one thing better than any other wing player on our team and that's play lock down defense. That is a very important skill come playoff time. Tony is also a great slasher with the ability to get to the line on a consistent basis. I'm sorry but Sam and Eddie house don't bring any of those skills to the table. If anyone is getting shunned out of the rotation it's Eddie who basically only brings 3 point shooting to the table. Oh yeah, who leads our team in 3 piont shooting percentage?

well yeah after the calf injury he has been playing like a dleaguer so unless i see a great game out of him today or until cassell returns stash him at the end of the bench with pollard and they can be the team's main water and gum distributors

dwestside · Post #4 » by **dwestside** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:40 pm

Tony and House will split the SG minutes situationally depending on defense/shooting. They're still in the rotation.

dwestside · Post #5 » by **dwestside** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:44 pm

YouAreBeneathMe wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

well yeah after the calf injury he has been playing like a dleaguer so unless i see a great game out of him today or until cassell returns stash him at the end of the bench with pollard and they can be the team's main water and gum distributors

Tony will bounce back. He usually does. And yeah, I'm not sure you know what the definition of invaluable is.

floyd · Post #6 » by **floyd** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:44 pm

YouAreBeneathMe wrote:with cassell on board and with eddie house needed for his shooting say goodbye to tony, he is invaluable with cassell now in the rotation, i think people undervalue the impact cassell will make

invaluable: valuable beyond estimation : priceless

He's played 4 mins since the calf injury, so what are you talking about?

Kids Are Alright · Post #7 » by **Kids Are Alright** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 4:54 pm

Tony's a lot like BB, there are times when he comes in and he's the game changer/winner. It's not in the 4th quarter, but he turns games around when the studs haven't got it for one reason or another. Other times, he's a bit goofy out there. I think he'll be a difference-maker tonight against the Pistons.

Sam will not be that guy at 38 because the defense won't be there.

I have a strong feeling that Doc is aware of this.

Dogen · Post #8 » by **Dogen** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:00 pm

I think what we're got ourselves here is a classic case of a truly flexible playoff roster. I expect that Doc will try to manage minutes for our starters/stars/oldtimers so that they will be in the rotation but fresh for the playoffs. Right now all we have to do is stay 1/2 game ahead of Detroit and we're good for homecourt advantage.

When the playoffs start, I think this will be the challenge for Doc as far as minutes go. This team has not gone through the playoffs together, so that is a disadvantage against Detroit to some degree. So it will be important for players to have roles established.

For instance: against Cleveland I would think that TA would get minutes over House because it will be more important for us to have multiple bodies on LeBron than scoring a lot of points. A first round series against, say, Atlanta, might see more minutes from House if we try to bury them from the perimeter. A series w/ Detroit could see more Cassell out there, less House, with Rondo and TA blanketing Hamilton at times.

The main point is for our players to be ready to come in at any time and do what they do best. Whoever the hero is from one round might not even see minutes in the next.

It's ALL about #17 now.

CelticsWhat! · Post #9 » by **CelticsWhat!** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:04 pm

floyd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

invaluable: valuable beyond estimation : priceless

He's played 4 mins since the calf injury, so what are you talking about?

He obviously doesn't know what invaluable means. But ironically, I think he was more correct with his mistake. The defensive intensity the TA brings when he's healthy, and the ability to play lock-down defense on the wing is invaluable.

The addition of Cassell will undoubtedly cut into TA's minutes, but in games where the opposition has a lot of scoring power at the wings, he will be a much needed member of the rotation.

P2 · Post #10 » by P2 » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:04 pm

dwestside wrote:Tony and House will split the SG minutes situationally depending on defense/shooting.

Exactly.

GonzoLays · Post #11 » by **GonzoLays** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:36 pm

The C's need Tony's athleticism and defense come playoff time. Tony can really lock up a player and force him to take tough shots.

Tony is not going anywhere. Can you imagine Sam or Eddie guarding Rip Hamilton when Pierce or Ray is on the bench? Not going to happen.

House will be the 5th guard on the team and play when matchups permit.

reggielewis · Post #12 » by **reggielewis** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:45 pm

i would expect the 2nd unit to look like this:

cassell
eddie
tony
posey
pj/powe/baby
we know doc loves small ball so he wont hesitate to play tony at the 3 and posey at the four. eddie will cover the one and sam the 2's with tony on the 3's and poz covering the 4. the interesting part will be who is the 5 is it bb,powe or pj?

dingodile · Post #13 » by **dingodile** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 5:51 pm

dwestside wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Tony will bounce back. He usually does. And yeah, I'm not sure you know what the definition of invaluable is.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Double-Overtime · Post #14 » by **Double-Overtime** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:15 pm

i love tony's game.... he'll be around , trust me. when you wanna go into super defense mode you run KG, posey, Tony and rondo. Not to mention that boy good at takin it to the rim. He almost has a duane wade type athletisim. So leave poor tony alone.. Its obvious he has always had a confidence problem.

Man_Up · Post #15 » by **Man_Up** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:16 pm

I'm expecting this to hurt houses minutes, more than eddies. Eddie's going to play less point, and he's too small to defend most shooting guards. Cassel is a good shooter, so he makes up for Houses shooting touch when he's on the bench. Tony brings the defense, rebound, and slashing element that are a bit needed off the bench.

I would prefer Tony play over house anyways. A lineup of:

Cassel
Allen
Posey
Baby/Powe
Brown

has more balance too it, imo.

DorfonCeltics · Post #16 » by **DorfonCeltics** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:30 pm

Man_Up wrote:I'm expecting this to hurt houses minutes, more than Tony's.

I'm assuming this is what you were trying to say.

TheCelticTruth · Post #17 » by **TheCelticTruth** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:36 pm

DorfonCeltics wrote:Well I think you're wrong.

QFT

Banks2Pierce · Post #18 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:41 pm

I think Cassell gets 18-20 mins each night.

Doc will go with either Tony or Eddie depending on what's going on in the game. If our defense isn't looking good, Tony gets the nod. If the offense needs a spark, Eddie gets it. If both facets are struggling, it'll probably be the guy who has produced more recently.

TheOGJabroni · Post #19 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 6:59 pm

The other thing I wonder is what is going to happen to someone like Posey, Baby, or Powe's minutes with the addition of PJ Brown. Doc is in a terrific position now because of these two huge additions to the team, but at the same time, people that earned their minutes and were valuable to the team are going to be losing minutes due to people coming in midway through the season.

Rondo 30 - Cassell 18
Ray 32 - TA/House 16
Pierce 34 - Posey 14
KG 34 - Brown 14
Perk 24 - Baby/Powe 24

While that is obviously going to be a solid mixture of players, there is obviously a noticable drop in the Big 3's minutes (not that they are going to complain about this) but also, eddie and TA will have a COMBINED 16 minutes after both averaged over 16 individually, and that is if and only if Ray actually loses 6 minutes from his minutes he's averaged so far. After that you have Posey, who will be losing 10 minutes because he had more minutes playing at the 4 but I'm pretty sure those minutes will dissipate now with three capable bigs off the bench. So I guess overall, there isn't too much to complain about but my real question is how well do you think some of the people off the bench will be able to adjust? and also, do you think my rotation minutes are off and if so, what should be adjusted?

Rocky5000 · Post #20 » by **Rocky5000** » Wed Mar 5, 2008 7:07 pm

Tony Allen is an actual prototypical SG, Eddie House isn't. House can guard backup PGs but there's no way he's gong to do well against the backup SGs. Tony is a natural SG, Cassell is a natural point guard, House is somewhere in between. I see House becoming a utility type player like all good teams have. Need a quick 3, or a big scoring push, bring House into the game. Most of his time is going to be situational now.