Trading down (with Portland)

[MN Die Hard]

I really don't know. I wouldn't totally be against trading down from #3 (definitely not from #1 or #2 though). My first instinct was to do it but the talent gap between #3 and and #12-13 might be too big. When you're drafting as high as the Wolves are you have opportunity to get really good player. I'd hate to see the Wolves screw it up.

I agree somewhat but I'm torn. In recent years there have been more "wins" at #3 (Horford, Deron Williams, Gordon, Carmelo, Gasol) than at #10 (Bynum, Caron, Joe Johnson). I'm typically in favor of drafting the best player available.

However, the Wolves have such a glaring need for a defensive center that they might be doing themselves an injustice by drafting a different position (and I'm in the camp that says keep #1 or #2 no matter what, so Rose and Beasley arent included in this discussion for me).

Would Mayo or Gordon be an upgrade over McCants? Probably, but is it enough of an upgrade where we're better off passing on a center who potentially can step in and protect Al for the next 10 years? I say no.

[4ho5ive]

Who says everything will work out so well for the Blazers? I still dont see Oden being THAT great as everyone is making him out to be and he is injury prone without even having played a game in the L. Now I am not wishing him get hurt but Im saying there is a likely hood that he will battle injuries throughout his career. And I dont feel that anyone in this draft is gonna put them in that upper tier of the West.

[PeeDee]

Why take that chance though? You could easily deal with Chicago, Millwakee, or Indiana instead. Those teams will likely have a better pick than Portland anyway.

[karch34]

I'm torn. It helps us from a financial standpoint, but as mentioned before helps what should be our big rival the next few years. The talent drop from 3 to 10-14 range is significant, IMO. Yeah, we might still get a Hibbert/Thabeet type that would be a great fit, but we could be losing out on a player with star potential. While everyone is in general agreement that Rose and Beasley are 1 and 2, who's to say that Gordon, Bayless, Mayo, Green or another might not be the best player out of this draft?

A defensive center fits best with Al, but I'm just not sure because all those we pass up might be significantly better than the PG/SG/SF we currently have on our team and the C might not be much better than what we could get using another pick or trade.

[deeney0]

Wolves might be able to turn around from this and use #14 and one or more of their other picks (2008 Wolves 2nd, 2008 Miami 2nd, 2009 Boston 1st, 2009 Miami 1st, 2010 Portland 1st in this scenario) And move back up into the 6-10 range if someone there strikes their fancy.

If the pick is going to be a center, I'd rather do this trade. I don't buy Lopez as being all that much better than Hibbert or Thabeet, and I don't think any of those three should be top 5 picks.

If the pick is best player available (Gordon, Mayo, Bayless, Greene, maybe even one of the Euros for all I know), this trade doesn't look quite as good. Trade McCants or Foye for a big instead of making this trade and you're in a similar boat.

[MN Die Hard]

Why take that chance though? You could easily deal with Chicago, Millwakee, or Indiana instead. Those teams will likely have a better pick than Portland anyway.

The first priority should be getting the best deal for MN. If other teams can offer us a better deal than Portland, then we should deal with them. But I think the need to avoid deals within the division is often overstated. It's not like we'll be battling Portland in the WCF every year for the next five seasons, with this deal swinging the balance of power. We do play 28 other teams besides Portland every year. We're not in a position to make deals with such a specific purpose in mind (i.e. avoid helping a division rival). At this point in the rebuilding process if a deal can help us we should pull the trigger no matter who its with, at least IMO.

[karch34]

Wolves might be able to turn around from this and use #14 and one or more of their other picks (2008 Wolves 2nd, 2008 Miami 2nd, 2009 Boston 1st, 2009 Miami 1st, 2010 Portland 1st in this scenario) And move back up into the 6-10 range if someone there strikes their fancy.

If the pick is going to be a center, I'd rather do this trade. I don't buy Lopez as being all that much better than Hibbert or Thabeet, and I don't think any of those three should be top 5 picks.

If the pick is best player available (Gordon, Mayo, Bayless, Greene, maybe even one of the Euros for all I know), this trade doesn't look quite as good. Trade McCants or Foye for a big instead of making this trade and you're in a similar boat.

Good point. I'm going a little off topic, but if the BPA is someone along those lines and we think Snyder has shown enough as a backup it could make McCants or someone like that expendable in a trade for a big. I'd throw one of those guys, an expiring, and Miami pick to Charlotte for Okafor, not saying they'd do it, but you never know.

[Krapinsky]

TERRIBLE TRADE for the Wolves.

A top five pick has a lot of value people, I don't care what draft you're talking about. Dropping to the 12th-13 pick is a huge fall. Another late first and saving some cahs isn't worth it.

A top five piece will net us another building block, something we desperately need right now. We need quality, not quantity. We have emouh middle of the road youngsters as is and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. We need superstar talent. The chances of getting that at #5 are ten times what they are at #12.

Having free agent money is not a priority, building through the draft is. Who says people are going to want to come here, even if we do have money? In most players' instances we will have to overpay for vets.


Concerning the idea people want to drop down b/c 3-5 is a two guard rich part of the draft and we need a C more than a 2:

Essentially, this would be like trading Gordon for Hibbert in this draft. I know, some people would prefer Hibbert, but they're wrong. The arguement is we have Foye/McCants/Telfair, and we need a C. But even with Foye/McCants/Telfair where does that put us in terms of reanking of backcourts in the west? I would say only above Memphis- and that's questionable depending on how Conley/Critendon develop.

I'm serious take a look at the west's backcourts and arguably everyteam besides memphis wil have a better backcourt for the foreseeable future.

San Antonio: Parker/Ginobli -- much better
L.A.: Kobe + --- much better
N.O.: Paul + --- much better
Utah: Williams/Brewer --- much better
Houston: McGrady + --- better
Dallas: Kidd/Terry --- better
Phoenix: Nash/Barbosa/Bell --- much better
G.S.: Davis/Ellis/Jackson --- much better
Denver: Iverson + --- better
Portland: Roy/Jack/Rodriguez/Fernandez/Blake --- better
Sacremento: Undrih/Martin --- arguably better
Seattle: Durant + --- better
Memphis: Conley/Lowry/Crittendon -- arguably worse

See what I mean people? We shouldn't be satisfied with our backcourt just b/c we've used are lottery pick there in the past. We still have a ways to go improving thre before we'll be able to compete with the rest of the West.


I don't do this trade. In the short term, ee just make Portland better, and us worse. Long term getting rid of Jaric's deal at the expense of losing a top five pick does not make us a better team

[Krapinsky]

man, i really need to start proof reading my posts.

[casey]

Who says everything will work out so well for the Blazers? I still dont see Oden being THAT great as everyone is making him out to be and he is injury prone without even having played a game in the L. Now I am not wishing him get hurt but Im saying there is a likely hood that he will battle injuries throughout his career. And I dont feel that anyone in this draft is gonna put them in that upper tier of the West.

They're a .500 team right now. They're the youngest team in the league (I think, if I'm wrong someone correct me). And they're without a player who has the potential to be one of the most dominant players in the league. Plus in this deal they'd be adding a top 5 player from this year's draft. I think it's a safe bet that they might be a decent team in the future, so that 2010 pick wouldn't be all that great. This deal is essentially moving from the 4th pick to the 13th pick to get out of Jaric's contract. I'm not so sure that would be the greatest idea. We need as much top tier talent as we can get.

[Wingman]

If you would go from top five to 12-14 to save glen taylor a few million, you are an idiot. It would end up costing him more as well, because people wouldn't be excited about a mid first round pick. Thank God McHale has more sense than some of the people around here.

[B Calrissian]

I would do..

Jaric/Walker/Smith/#3 pick
For
08 pick/10 pick/Webster/Rodriguez (or maybe Jack)

Then we can focus on getting big men through the draft and sign a free agent center like Diop.

[MN Die Hard]

If you would go from top five to 12-14 to save glen taylor a few million, you are an idiot.......Thank God McHale has more sense than some of the people around here.

Is that really necessary? Dr. K and casey were both able to argue the flip side without insulting the posters who dont share their opinion.

[TheFranchise21]

-= original quote snipped =-



Wasn't Boston supposedly the team to beat when we dealt them KG?

I for sure would do this deal.

IMO, Boston was a second tier Eastern team before they acquired KG and only had the Pierce/Allen/Jefferson trifecta. Adding KG made them the favorites.

TERRIBLE TRADE for the Wolves.

A top five pick has a lot of value people, I don't care what draft you're talking about. Dropping to the 12th-13 pick is a huge fall. Another late first and saving some cahs isn't worth it.

A top five piece will net us another building block, something we desperately need right now. We need quality, not quantity. We have emouh middle of the road youngsters as is and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. We need superstar talent. The chances of getting that at #5 are ten times what they are at #12.

Having free agent money is not a priority, building through the draft is. Who says people are going to want to come here, even if we do have money? In most players' instances we will have to overpay for vets.

Couldn't have said it any better.

Al Jefferson is a good player but he needs a very good player next to him. He's not a true franchise player (Duncan, KG, Kobe, LeBron) but he is someone you can definitely build around. What I mean is, you can surround those guys I listed with 2-3 good role players and they can give you a good shot at a title. Put Al in that situation and they're a 6th-8th seed.

[shrink]

I see no reason to do this trade.

Look, Portland is already above 500, and you have to expect young guys like Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge to improve. Freakin' Greg Oden is joining the team next year, and we want to give them a Beasley or Derrick Rose too? The Blazers are in our division, and except for Al, that would mean they have four young players better than any of ours. How valuable do you think that 2010 1st is really going to be?

[shrink]

While it doesn't mean a lot, at least our expensive guys can play a little:

Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -14.2 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and -4.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Antoine Walker
6-9 PF from Kentucky
8.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 19.4 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.0 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +14.2 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +4.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Antoine Walker
6-9 PF from Kentucky
8.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 19.4 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Outgoing Players
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.2 minutes

[Krapinsky]

While it doesn't mean a lot, at least our expensive can play a little:

Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -14.2 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and -4.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Antoine Walker
6-9 PF from Kentucky
8.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 19.4 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.0 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +14.2 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +4.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Antoine Walker
6-9 PF from Kentucky
8.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 19.4 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
7.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.0 minutes
Outgoing Players
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 PF / C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.2 minutes

MN- yes. Portland needs the roster spot more than adding a player that wouldn't play for them. Says no.

[shrink]

I should have been clearer. I'm not pointing this out as a legitimate trade. I'm saying that while a deal like this saves money, its not like we're getting back a very useful player in LaFrentz. Yes, Jaric is overpaid by a couple mil a year, but he can be productive on the court, and help a team win. Personally, I think he'd help POR, who's already weak at SF, on the floor with Oden/Aldridge/Jaric/Roy/Derrick Rose line-up far more than LaFrentz will next year.

[TheFranchise21]

I see no reason to do this trade.

Look, Portland is already above 500, and you have to expect young guys like Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge to improve. Freakin' Greg Oden is joining the team next year, and we want to give them a Beasley or Derrick Rose too? The Blazers are in our division, and except for Al, that would mean they have four young players better than any of ours. How valuable do you think that 2010 1st is really going to be?

We're going off the assumption that our pick is no higher than third, and the two teams ahead of us take Beasley and Rose. Thus, Portland would not be able to pick either player.

[horaceworthy]

I don't like this idea. I see it as trading the #3 or 4 for a pick in the 12-14 range and a 2010 pick somewhere in the twenties. Getting out of Jaric's contract isn't worth that.