CF NEWS 13: Redick Bides Time On Bench For Magic

[mhectorgato]

Thats easy. because we are getting ready for the playoffs. I can't tell you the number of times in sports and in the NBA that a player has gone down and a rookie or bit player was required to step up. they seldom do because they have no experience and are rusty.

If JJ was #3 on the chart then I'd go along. As it stands right now - MoE, KeDo and KeBo are in front of him in the depth chart.

I'm not arguing that JJ should get critical minutes but this is the stretch with a lot of mediocre teams. If this team can't comfortably put teams away because they give a player five minutes of playing time then they are not getting ready for the playoffs and I don't know I could see a scenario develop somewhere in the playoffs when you need a dead eye three point shooter with ice in his veins (requiring a little bit of exposure time) to sink a very needed game winning or tying basket. Never say never.

That's why he's gotten a few minutes recently - along with Marcin - because we've put away a couple of teams early enough in the 4th for SVG to feel comfortable put him in.

Additionally, our team has several good outside shots capable of hitting last minute treys, granted it falls of somewhat quickly after Hedo and Lewis.

[OMPunk]

Gortat needs minutes too, we might actually just have something there

All we have to do is not resign Augustine...or if Fran comes over, not resign Augustine and not pick up Foyle's option for next season.

Plus.....I don't think Gortat will impede on JJ's minutes....they kind of play different positions. I know they look the same height while they both sit on the bench, but Marcin is in fact much taller then JJ.

[theTHIEF]

i was actually just derailing the thread and saying, man i might have been wrong about Gortat, lets get that kid some minutes too

[Optimus_Steel]

i was actually just derailing the thread and saying, man i might have been wrong about Gortat, lets get that kid some minutes too

Looks like Thief has seen the light on the Gortatnator.

[maginno]

Additionally, our team has several good outside shots capable of hitting last minute treys, granted it falls of somewhat quickly after Hedo and Lewis.

Thats the point exactly. Teams actually do know something of scouting reports. In those scenarios the defense is going to force you to your second and third option. You might but I really don't have a high degree of confidence in two out of three of those guards. Just putting JJ in pulls off the perimeter defense off your other guys particularly if he's been getting some burn.

Doesn't matter what our SG rotation is. None of them are great. I know you love Evans but lets say he's the guy that goes down. why not have an option of JJ when Bogans goes into a stretch where he can't hit the side of a barn?. Besides if its Shard or Hedo going down its worse. I say with either guy out you no longer have a powerhouse offense that doesn't need a scorer and with the offense keying in on one player on the perimeter you are going to have issues.

Yeah JJ got a few minutes the other day but Stan seems hesitant to put him in even in those situations and if thats the plan down the line then what do we make of all this talk about not getting off the bench for the rest of the season? I doubt we would be having this conversation if Stan had told him we are going to try and get you some minutes down the stretch.

[spinedoc]

I've had a brilliant idea. Maybe everyone is telling the truth. I'm not being facetious, I just had some thoughts that pull things together.

Stan says he likes JJ, respects his frustration at not being able to play. He says JJ is working hard, doing what is asked of him, plays acceptable defense, but doesn't do what needs to be done as well as the other guards. He says JJ's time will come. He just has to be patient. Otis says the same and that he has no intention of trading JJ. He just has to be patient. Let's assume they are telling the truth.

So why won't they play him? I think it has to do with the immediate goals of the coach and GM -- to take a good regular season team with not a lot of playoff experience, and turn them (the rotation players) into a tough playoff team before the playoffs. JJ hardly has game experience. He's not ready for that transition. His only role at present is to step up when he gets called on. If his teammates continue to play whole games with playoff intensity, JJ will be getting minutes because there will be blowouts.

JJ didn't play earlier in the season because SVG didn't trust even his starters to hold a lead. With a good showing in the playoffs, the team will get the coach's confidence and JJ should get his chances next year.

The "philosophical difference" was a puzzler. "I want to play, coach doesn't want to play me," doesn't qualify as philosophy, and JJ is pretty good with words, so that's not it. But, aha! SVG has said in response to the endless questions about "developing" JJ, that players don't need to be in games to develop. He said that in good teams, young players often don't see playing time, except in emergencies and decided games, in their first couple of years and that they develop their game in practice. We aren't used to this because we aren't used to having a good team. Now this is philosophical, and it's a philosophy that you wouldn't expect JJ to agree with.

Thats a good take on things mamma. The philosophical difference could very well be that Stan doesn't like to play rookies, and yes JJ is close enough to fit that label. You see that kind of thing with coaches in a lot of different sports. Sometimes its and ego thing, but mainly because coaches don't feel the player is ready yet, not in their mold anyway.

But, unless we don't resign Evans or Dooling, trade Bogans, and don't use our mle on a sg, I don't see JJ moving up the depth chart. Otis and Stan could have a master plan regarding JJ, but I don't see it.

[magicmamma]

Yeah JJ got a few minutes the other day but Stan seems hesitant to put him in even in those situations and if thats the plan down the line then what do we make of all this talk about not getting off the bench for the rest of the season? I doubt we would be having this conversation if Stan had told him we are going to try and get you some minutes down the stretch.

Actually, he said he wouldn't crack the rotation for the rest of the season. The better the rotation players do, the more likely JJ and the other guys at the end of the bench get to play some garbage minutes.

[fuz]

Opinions should still have logic and your statement doesn't have any. How can you state that he is out of his elements "In BOTH the NBA and on the Magic" when the only NBA team he has played for IS the Magic?

As pointed out previously, he needs the ball in his hands to play well and he doesn't get that. Although I concede on thief's comment that he cannot show his true skillset in just a few short minutes every few games, if you cannot crack the rotation when you were a stud in college... well to me it seems that he is out of his element (College). He has yet to prove that he belongs in this league; therefore, my opinion of him is that he is out of his element. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Why is it that JJ haters always overstate the case. The guy hasn't played and whenever he has gotten over ten minutes in a game he's done very well. The stats don't lie. Will it translate into an NBA career? Totally impossible to say based on his minutes here that it will or won't.

Did I ever say that I was a JJ hater? I have an opinion of him that differs from yours obviously, yet I still hope the best for him. He has proven nothing so far though and that is my stance. Again, take it or leave it. I really couldn't care less.

Second issue is that once you get a reputation for not playing defense you have to become a powerhouse defender to dispel it. JJ jas jad some spurts in limited time where he seems to have gotten better at defense. Not just my observation but others in game threads while the game is going on. Our other guards get abused on defense from time to time but you don't hear about it as much because their reputation doesn't highlight it.

I actually agree with this to a point.

JJ hasn't had the fortune of playing for a team with long-term success, with a long-tenured coach. He's a question mark in the eyes of many, and it seems that no matter how well we hear that he plays in practice, he's still a question mark on the court. Coach is trying to foster a winning atmosphere while keeping his job secure at the same time. JJ unfortunately is a fall guy to this approach. Redick would fare better on a team with a dominant background, with a coach who has a secure job. (Again my opinion...)

[fendilim]

What I don't understand here is that how the teams like the Pistons or the Spurs can player out of their rotation and yet, we can't.

[richboy]

If JJ cant make it on this team at SG then where can he make it. His only hope is to find a way to get time against PGs. Its not like this team couldn't use a good SG.

Otis and SVG are definetely not on same page here. Otis obviously thinks JJ can play. Either that or he rather hide under JJ not playing because of coaches decision that suggest that JJ was a bad pick. If Otis is convinced that JJ can play then perhaps he lets most of the free-agent sgs walk so SVG is forced to play JJ.

Dont buy that Otis is playing to the media by saying he wont trade JJ. Most of this league questioned if JJ could play in the NBA. Your not going to get that much for him at this point.

JJ doesn't play because of his defense. SVG has probably seen him play more than just about anyone. JJ knows what the situation is. He even stated that I'm not going to get taller and my arms aren't going to get longer. To me those comments suggest that SVG doesn't think he can guard NBA SGs. That when you have the arm length of JJ that really any NBA SG can rise over the top of you and shoot.

I wonder if there an emerging power struggle between gm and coach. I get the feeling that SVG is not as commited to guys like JJ, Jameer as Otis would be.

[lovehoops01]

JJ knows what the situation is. He even stated that I'm not going to get taller and my arms aren't going to get longer. To me those comments suggest that SVG doesn't think he can guard NBA SGs. That when you have the arm length of JJ that really any NBA SG can rise over the top of you and shoot.

He didn't have to hear it from Stan to know that's the book on him. It was in every predraft scouting report on the guy and has been repeated by a lot of NBA "experts'' and most every NBA message board since then.

Perhaps it is his belief that a coach who isn't as concerned about defense might be one who would be more likely to play him. For instance, Don Nelson could care less if any of his players play any defense. This also could be the difference in philosophy that he references.

Maybe Stan and Otis both believe that if they have a unit on the team that is more defense-oriented as a whole that he might be able to get away with playing him more. And perhaps they hope to balance the roster more between offense and defense in the offseason (and also that the return of Tony Battie will help some).

Whatever....I don't know that he gains any sympathy by discussing this in every media outlet available. I'm not saying that the Magic should do this, but I'm pretty sure that some teams have suspended players for conduct detrimental to the team for similar actions. Once is one thing, but talking about it at different times to every newspaper and TV station in Orlando (and maybe elsewhere) is another. As a fan, I can understand his frustration, and I know that he is accustomed to playing as much as he wants and being the star on his team. But he's at a different level now than he was, and he's certainly not the only guy who has found himself in such a situation. I have the feeling that most of this will get resolved in the next year. He'll either be playing or he'll have a new team. I know it's hard for him, but he just needs to keep working and being patient.

[maginno]

As pointed out previously, he needs the ball in his hands to play well and he doesn't get that. Although I concede on thief's comment that he cannot show his true skillset in just a few short minutes every few games, if you cannot crack the rotation when you were a stud in college... well to me it seems that he is out of his element (College). He has yet to prove that he belongs in this league; therefore, my opinion of him is that he is out of his element. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Sorry stating you have an opinion doesn't let you off the hook in an intelligent conversation. I am also entitled to question it and to point out its logical shortcomings and will continue do so.

Your point is illogical. Plenty of college players find themselves not cracking the rotation in their early years. Its part of the process and does nothing to show they are out of their element in the NBA. You made a claim that has no logical basis. Every year there are players that move to a different team that do worse or better. Some teams had little use for them and the new team has plenty. A close example would be Ariza who couldn't get minutes here but was doing plenty over in LA before being injured. extrapolating from Stan's use of Ariza you would come to the conclusion that He is a bust but gathering from no doubt a future hall of fame coach in LA you would get the exact opposite.

The reality for those who actually care about the facts over their own opinion is that Stan has said JJ's specialty (offense) is not needed on this team because it already has outside shooters and already has a weakness on defense. It therefore says nothing for the NBA teams that do not have that talent already on their roster or who at least have a good defending PG.

So no as JJ 's experience with the Magic goes so does not the whole NBA it make. You are in ZERO position to claim that he would be out of his element in both the NBA and the Magic because there is zero reality to differentiate the two. He's only played for the Magic and only limited minutes. When he does play for another team or gets major minute here you will be in better position to make such an argument but for right now it is hollow be it your opinion or not.

People think that if they state "its just my opinion" that absolves them from making sense. it doesn't.

[maginno]

Whatever....I don't know that he gains any sympathy by discussing this in every media outlet available. I'm not saying that the Magic should do this, but I'm pretty sure that some teams have suspended players for conduct detrimental to the team for similar actions. Once is one thing, but talking about it at different times to every newspaper and TV station in Orlando (and maybe elsewhere) is another.

Most here had the distinct impression that a number of those "newspaper and TV stations" had the blessings of the Magic. So much so that many of us thought Otis was trying to drive up the price of JJ through the media. One thing is for sure - before this article most of the reports had just as much from Stan and Otis on JJ as they did JJ on himself. I don't know that you can make the argument that JJ even initiated the conversations or even did them without the consent and approval of the the Magic - except of course this one. This is by far the most disgruntled I've hear JJ on the subject. Maybe he thought they were playing up his value to trade him as well.

[lovehoops01]

-= original quote snipped =-



Most here had the distinct impression that a number of those "newspaper and TV stations" had the blessings of the Magic. So much so that many of us thought Otis was trying to drive up the price of JJ through the media. One thing is for sure - before this article most of the reports had just as much from Stan and Otis on JJ as they did JJ on himself. I don't know that you can make the argument that JJ even initiated the conversations or even did them without the consent and approval of the the Magic - except of course this one. This is by far the most disgruntled I've hear JJ on the subject. Maybe he thought they were playing up his value to trade him as well.

Oh, I'm sure that J.J. didn't initiate any of these interviews. But players often downplay the questions when asked -- and he hasn't. That's my only point. He did at first, but his frustration is increasing so he stopped downplaying it. Magic players have said much worse over the years without being reprimanded -- see Penny Hardaway, for example -- so I wouldn't necessarily say that he had the team's "blessing;'' it just didn't try to muzzle him apparently. NBA rules require that the media gets access to the players before and after every game and after practices. I'm sure the media don't reveal in advance the questions they are going to ask and that the team couldn't watch over all their interviews even if it wanted to.

I kind of doubt that the Magic pushed him out there to give interviews on his status to boost his trade value, but I certainly can't speak for the rest of the posters here. What about it, you guys? You think the Magic encouraged J.J. to talk before the deadline to try to drive up his trade value? I would think his talking would have the opposite effect myself because it would make the Magic look as if they were in a fire sale situation.

[McDaddy]

What do you guys think of the following trade;

Orlando trades J.J. and 1rd pick to Portland for Channing Frye.

Stan isn't planning to use J.J. in his rotation, so why keep him. Our history with 1rd pick isn't that well so we better trade it before we draft a next bust or a player who doesn't want to come.

Frye isn't receiving much playing time in Portland and when Oden comes back it could be less then now.

Nelson or MLE
Turk or MLE
Lewis
Frye
Superman

[cedric76]

i really think JJ is gonna be traded along our pick on draft day

[craig01]

I doubt the Magic would have encouraged Redick to speak with the media. Why air dirty laundry?

[spinedoc]

I doubt the Magic would have encouraged Redick to speak with the media. Why air dirty laundry?

LOL, and even if they did, you would figure that they would have worked with him on what to say. I doubt they encouraged him to be so painfully honest.

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



Sorry stating you have an opinion doesn't let you off the hook in an intelligent conversation. I am also entitled to question it and to point out its logical shortcomings and will continue do so.

Your point is illogical. Plenty of college players find themselves not cracking the rotation in their early years. Its part of the process and does nothing to show they are out of their element in the NBA. You made a claim that has no logical basis. Every year there are players that move to a different team that do worse or better. Some teams had little use for them and the new team has plenty. A close example would be Ariza who couldn't get minutes here but was doing plenty over in LA before being injured. extrapolating from Stan's use of Ariza you would come to the conclusion that He is a bust but gathering from no doubt a future hall of fame coach in LA you would get the exact opposite.

The reality for those who actually care about the facts over their own opinion is that Stan has said JJ's specialty (offense) is not needed on this team because it already has outside shooters and already has a weakness on defense. It therefore says nothing for the NBA teams that do not have that talent already on their roster or who at least have a good defending PG.

So no as JJ 's experience with the Magic goes so does not the whole NBA it make. You are in ZERO position to claim that he would be out of his element in both the NBA and the Magic because there is zero reality to differentiate the two. He's only played for the Magic and only limited minutes. When he does play for another team or gets major minute here you will be in better position to make such an argument but for right now it is hollow be it your opinion or not.

People think that if they state "its just my opinion" that absolves them from making sense. it doesn't.

This is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about Mags. Are you trying to be offensive, or does it just happen that way naturally? A little less condescending would be nice.

[CourtsideTV]

wow..we fight about everything on the internet message boards.