OT: It's Conference Tourney Time!

[girlygirl]

Yes! I love watching conference tournaments, especially the smaller conferences, since I don't see those teams much.

Only have two teams that've qualified for the Big Dance so far:

Cornell: First Ivy league team other than Penn or Princeton to win the Ivy and make the NCAA Tourney since 1988

Winthrop: Won the Big South tourney AGAIN, with an easy win this morning over UNC Asheville (and its 7'7" center, Kenny George). Winthrop has its own litle mini-dynasty going on down in South Carolina

Right now, I'm watching the MVC semifinal between Drake and Creighton (a.k.a. the battle between Kyle Korver's younger brothers). Drake may be THE story of the year in college basketball. First year coach, first conference regular season title since 1971, etc. etc. But Creighton (who's starting G Nick bahe was a walk-on at my alma mater (KU) before transferring) has won 20+ games again and is always tough. Should be a good game

Got A-Sun and OVC title games later today, as well.

[Polynice4Pippen]

No Kenny George in the tournament=depressing. Michael Jenkins went off today for Winthrop though. Once again they're dangerous. Notre Dame still remembers what Winthrop did to them last year in the 1st round.

[girlygirl]

Kenny George is HUGE but man is he SLOW. Aaron Gray would beat him up the floor with no trouble at all. I heard that he's already dislocated both knees...probably due to his size.

It was funny watching UNC Asheville in the semis. At one point he was standing next to one of the other team's guards -- who was probably no taller than 6-foot to begin with. A giant vs. Lilliputian moment.

Winthrop is just a machine when it comes to winning the Big South. They always seem to get that 2/15 matchup, though. I wonder if thy will be a 15 seed again this year.

[girlygirl]

This kid Adam Emmenecker is a terrific story. A walk-on at Drake, he averaged less than 1 PPG over his first 3 years. This year, he is the MVC Player of the Year (despite a 7.7 scoring average; he did lead the Valley in assists, though). He also is the COSIDA Scholar-Athlete of the Year, with FOUR majors. FOUR! I didn't even know you could have four majors -- I was a double major in college, and that was bad enough having to take all those extra credits.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Kenny George is HUGE but man is he SLOW. Aaron Gray would beat him up the floor with no trouble at all. I heard that he's already dislocated both knees...probably due to his size.

It was funny watching UNC Asheville in the semis. At one point he was standing next to one of the other team's guards -- who was probably no taller than 6-foot to begin with. A giant vs. Lilliputian moment.

Winthrop is just a machine when it comes to winning the Big South. They always seem to get that 2/15 matchup, though. I wonder if thy will be a 15 seed again this year.

I've watched Kenny George since his high school days at Latin. He had foot problems even back then. It's sad to see a then 7'3" 280 pound 16-year-old kid struggle to run up and down the court because of his foot and knee problems. He's a great kid though. But he makes Aaron Gray look like Tony Parker running the floor.

[Ben]

I love college hoops and the NCAA tourney, and the conference tourneys can be fun, but IMO they should NOT be a contest for an automatic NCAA berth. Almost every year some lame team gets hot for a few games and wins its conference tourney, thus gaining entrance to the Big Dance and consigning some very worthy bubble team to the NIT. I cannot stress how much I hate that.

IMO if a team is below .500 it should not be allowed in the Big Dance, and there should be some kind of formula for determining whether even a barely-over-.500 team can qualify. Those teams NEVER beat the #1 seeds against whom they're matched, so it's nothing like having a small-conference team such as Boise State making a pitch for the BCS. The football squad actually has a shot at winning a game. In basketball it's just a slap in the face to some very deserving team that's played well all year, only to fall short in one game-- maybe b/c of injury, maybe b/c of something else-- and IMO it sucks.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason why the conference tourneys result in automatic berth is that the attendant excitement generates a lot of revenue. But it winds up screwing up the purity of the NCAA tourney.

[Polynice4Pippen]

I love college hoops and the NCAA tourney, and the conference tourneys can be fun, but IMO they should NOT be a contest for an automatic NCAA berth. Almost every year some lame team gets hot for a few games and wins its conference tourney, thus gaining entrance to the Big Dance and consigning some very worthy bubble team to the NIT. I cannot stress how much I hate that.

IMO if a team is below .500 it should not be allowed in the Big Dance, and there should be some kind of formula for determining whether even a barely-over-.500 team can qualify. Those teams NEVER beat the #1 seeds against whom they're matched, so it's nothing like having a small-conference team such as Boise State making a pitch for the BCS. The football squad actually has a shot at winning a game. In basketball it's just a slap in the face to some very deserving team that's played well all year, only to fall short in one game-- maybe b/c of injury, maybe b/c of something else-- and IMO it sucks.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason why the conference tourneys result in automatic berth is that the attendant excitement generates a lot of revenue. But it winds up screwing up the purity of the NCAA tourney.

You make a good point but I do think there is and rightfully should be a difference between regular season and post season, unlike college football which tries to pretend regular season games equate to playoff elimination games. I'd like to see more conferences go to the Big East system of not allowing the bottom 4 teams to play in the conference tourny (although the Big East will be abandoning that starting next season). Or even doing what the West Coast Conference does in giving its top 2 seeds automatic byes into the semifinals. It forces the 7 thru 10 seeds to win 4 games in 4 days to win the tourny, the 3 thru 6 seeds to win 3 games in 3 days, and the top 2 seeds to just win 2 games in 2 days, thus rewarding regular season performance. Still though I believe teams should have to prove themselves in a postseason setting for the automatic bid. Regular season is one thing, playoffs are another.

[SportsWorld]

If Illinois State can't beat UNI and most likely Drake then Illinois will most likely not have a team represented in the NCAA tournament.

[Ben]

Still though I believe teams should have to prove themselves in a postseason setting for the automatic bid. Regular season is one thing, playoffs are another.

Yeah, I see your point but you and I just disagree on this. The conference tourneys are only postseason settings, but they're not actually postseason at all. The games still count in a team's regular-season record. So I fail to see how there can be some important difference b/w games played in those tourneys and games played, for example, for the outright conference championship (as UNC and Duke will play today).

Even if there were some sort of important qualitative difference, it seems to me that your argument is essentially a negative one: a good team shouldn't automatically get into the tourney just b/c it has the best record in its conference. It can be dinged if it fails to win its conference tourney. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the obverse is true-- that any team that wins its conference tourney should automatically get to go to the Big Dance. And that was the real bone of contention for me. I hate it when a lousy team gets into the tourney. They never win and they block other good teams from getting in, teams that won week in and week out. Even bad teams that win their conference tourney probably only log between 1 and 3 victories over good teams, b/c they're likely to face at least one other bad team. And my point is that a few victories over good or decent teams do not a season make.

[Polynice4Pippen]

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Yeah, I see your point but you and I just disagree on this. The conference tourneys are only postseason settings, but they're not actually postseason at all. The games still count in a team's regular-season record. So I fail to see how there can be some important difference b/w games played in those tourneys and games played, for example, for the outright conference championship (as UNC and Duke will play today).

Even if there were some sort of important qualitative difference, it seems to me that your argument is essentially a negative one: a good team shouldn't automatically get into the tourney just b/c it has the best record in its conference. It can be dinged if it fails to win its conference tourney. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the obverse is true-- that any team that wins its conference tourney should automatically get to go to the Big Dance. And that was the real bone of contention for me. I hate it when a lousy team gets into the tourney. They never win and they block other good teams from getting in, teams that won week in and week out. Even bad teams that win their conference tourney probably only log between 1 and 3 victories over good teams, b/c they're likely to face at least one other bad team. And my point is that a few victories over good or decent teams do not a season make.

The thing is college basketball, for better or worse, has never really gone by regular season accomplishments in awarding trips to the postseason like most other sports do. The regular season was simply played for seeding purposes in the all important conference tournaments where the automatic bids were given out. And until 1975 only those conference tourny champions earned bids to the NCAA tourny. There were no at large bids. So for better or for worse college basketball has established a hierarchy where the conference tournament is in fact a post season and the ultimate determining factor for admittance into the Big Dance.

Like you say, we just disagree here. But I like cranking it up a bit on a postseason tourny stage for all the marbles. The top seeds should be protected and rewarded to a certain extent but in all honesty they really shouldn't be losing to sub .500 teams with everything on the line to begin with. That of course isn't the argument here but it's one of the reasons I don't feel too bad for top seeds who fall to conference bottom feeders who they beat up on all regular season long. It'd be like the Celtics losing to the Bulls in the playoffs. Kinda pathetic.

[TB#1]

-= original quote snipped =-



The thing is college basketball, for better or worse, has never really gone by regular season accomplishments in awarding trips to the postseason like most other sports do. The regular season was simply played for seeding purposes in the all important conference tournaments where the automatic bids were given out. And until 1975 only those conference tourny champions earned bids to the NCAA tourny. There were no at large bids. So for better or for worse college basketball has established a hierarchy where the conference tournament is in fact a post season and the ultimate determining factor for admittance into the Big Dance.

Like you say, we just disagree here. But I like cranking it up a bit on a postseason tourny stage for all the marbles. The top seeds should be protected and rewarded to a certain extent but in all honesty they really shouldn't be losing to sub .500 teams with everything on the line to begin with. That of course isn't the argument here but it's one of the reasons I don't feel too bad for top seeds who fall to conference bottom feeders who they beat up on all regular season long. It'd be like the Celtics losing to the Bulls in the playoffs. Kinda pathetic.

Yeah, but like Screamin' A was saying last night (check myself: am I really making a Smith reference here? Really?) there is a huge difference between an NBA playoff series and the one and done atmosphere of Bracket Time.

I do agree with the suggestion that weak conference automatic tourny bids dilute the whole Big Dance Gestalt. The whole computer generated mess that is the NCAA college football rating system is too much of a boondoggle for me to endorse, but I do think some revamping of the Selection Sunday process is warranted. I do enjoy seeing Cinderella teams making a splash (heck, the most excited I've ever been about college games was when Loyola went to the Dance my freshman year in 1985) but too much Underdog gets me rooting for Simon Bar Sinister.

[girlygirl]

OVC title game on ESPN2 between Tennessee State and Austin peay

Featuring the favorite cheer of 6-year olds everywhere "Let's Go Pee!"

[Polynice4Pippen]

OVC title game on ESPN2 between Tennessee State and Austin peay

Featuring the favorite cheer of 6-year olds everywhere "Let's Go Pee!"

I miss Trenton Hassell.

[RonCrimson]

This kid Adam Emmenecker is a terrific story. A walk-on at Drake, he averaged less than 1 PPG over his first 3 years. This year, he is the MVC Player of the Year (despite a 7.7 scoring average; he did lead the Valley in assists, though). He also is the COSIDA Scholar-Athlete of the Year, with FOUR majors. FOUR! I didn't even know you could have four majors -- I was a double major in college, and that was bad enough having to take all those extra credits.

This is an article I found about Emmenecker which says he averaged just 4.7 points as a high school senior. That, too, is crazy.[/url]

[girlygirl]

Not a conference tourney game, but refs just blatantly handed UCLA a win over Cal...although mad props to Josh Shipp for the crazy circus shot that turned out to be the game winner. Point is, UCLA shouldn't have ahd the ball in first place. UCLA fouled Ryan Anderson (no call), then knocked the ball out of bounds. Not onyl did the refs refuse to call the foul (even though the Bruins were TRYING to foul him), but they gave the ball to UCLA even though...at least from the angle I saw, the ball was CLEARLY off of a Bruin player.


EDIT: Ok, I'm calmer now...my friend told me they showed a repplay that shows the ball was off the Cal player. So my bad on that. But it still looked like a foul...

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Not a conference tourney game, but refs just blatantly handed UCLA a win over Cal...although mad props to Josh Shipp for the crazy circus shot that turned out to be the game winner. Point is, UCLA shouldn't have ahd the ball in first place. UCLA fouled Ryan Anderson (no call), then knocked the ball out of bounds. Not onyl did the refs refuse to call the foul (even though the Bruins were TRYING to foul him), but they gave the ball to UCLA even though...at least from the angle I saw, the ball was CLEARLY off of a Bruin player.


EDIT: Ok, I'm calmer now...my friend told me they showed a repplay that shows the ball was off the Cal player. So my bad on that. But it still looked like a foul...

[url]
http://guttylittlebruins.com/ucla-baske ... -shot-cal/[/url]

Wow.

For some reason I'm not even a big as fan of the team as I should be. Since I was way after the Wiz worked his magic, to me being a fan of UCLA basketball is like hoping for Goliath to win. I do hope we win that tournament thingy though. That would be pretty nice.

[girlygirl]

Four more NCAA bids at stake tonight (Monday)

CAA: William & Mary (who've NEVER made the NCAA toruney) vs. George Mason

MAAC: Rider (watch Jason Thompson on ESPN2) vs. Siena

Southern: Davidson (Stephon Curry) vs. Elon

WAC: Gonzaga vs. San Diego

[Polynice4Pippen]

Jason Thompson has been a true beast but it's not enough for Rider. Siena is swarming them defensively. They're a quick, explosive team that can pressure ballhandlers on the defensive end.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Damn, this Jones kid for San Diego is Jim Jones's (Jonestown, drink the Kool-Aid) grandson. Creepy.

[girlygirl]

San Diego upsets Gonzaga! That basically knocks St. Mary's out -- they aren't gonna take three WCC teams