Cammo's Brand Spanking New Big Board

[Jonathan Watters]

One more...

7) I remember a 6'5 athletic freak so raw he had to play PF in his one year of college. He shot a low % from the field, but did well on the boards and declared after the season. He fell to the latter part of the first round, but eventually emerged as a phenomenal power wing at the pro level.

I'm talking about Gerald Wallace.

I'm also talking about Bill Walker.

If he's there at 25, you take him.

[abark]

I think DeAndre Jordan sucks. I guess it's just me.

I completely agree. He is always listed as a top 7 player but Ive never seen him do anything on a basketball court to deserve it. If a team was going to draft purely on potential I feel that Thabeet would be a better pick since hes at least shown that he can play basketball

[Griff83]

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I don't think he would go in the 1st round, and I think Pitino is smart enough to know that and keep him in school. He would prolly be in the 30s or early 40s on this list.

are you serious?

Clarks going to be a better pro then all of Tyler Smith, Shan Foster and Chris Douglas Roberts. Louisville's system is built on depth and using a ton of players so no one player really stands out game in game out.

[Cammo101]

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are you serious?

Clarks going to be a better pro then all of Tyler Smith, Shan Foster and Chris Douglas Roberts. Louisville's system is built on depth and using a ton of players so no one player really stands out game in game out.

This all may be true, but that does not change the fact that I don't think he will sniff the first round. Douglas-Roberts and Shan Foster are no locks for the first round either.

[Cammo101]

Cammo, you do a great job with your lists. One of the few people around here who actually attempts to scout the draft the way it should be scouted. You don't get hung up on your own opinions, are always looking for new information, and are quite thorough.

Just a few comments -

1) Not seeing DeAndre Jordan that high. Maybe he shocks us all, figures out how to play the game, loses the attitude, and develops a work ethic. I think he ought to stay an extra year and learn those things in college. Of course, he's so far behind the curve that if he stayed another year he'd get exposed - thus, he'd be absolutely insane not to declare this year.

2) I don't understand why people can't jump on the Brook Lopez bandwagon. He's the best 2-way player in college basketball, period. And his game absolutely translates to the next level. He's a 6'11, 260 pound center that is going to be able to put up a fight against the Yao's and Howard's of the league, and he's got a semblance of an offensive game even at the pro level. Tim Duncan still gets underrated by everybody to this day, and Lopez is a poor man's Duncan. Tons of people sleeping on this guy, because he doesn't make sportscenter worthy plays and because he doesn't make sportscenter due to playing on the west coast. I've been saying all these things since last fall, and you are obviously making the right call here.

3) Agreed on Augustin. The guy is a world-beater, controls a game in the way very few PG's can on any level. That part of his game isn't going anywhere, and teams that need a PG will be falling over themselves to draft this guy. Many have compared him to Chris Paul, but the player that always pops into my mind is Terrell Brandon. Just always a step ahead of the competition mentally, and has the natural tools to make up for his lack of size.

4) Donte Green is too high, IMO. I just don't see a Top 10 team drafting a 6'11 athletic freak so focused on the perimeter he can't even shoot 40% from the field in conference play. Obivously he gets drafted somewhere in the first round, but there are so many other viable options in this range that I think he falls.

5) I know you were high on Hibbert at one time, what made you change your mind? He's doing exactly what he did last year, saving his best for last. Thompson III has finally convinced the guards that he's worth passing the ball to, and G'Town has definitely taken it up a notch in recent games (amazing how that happens, isn't it?). I think Hibbert is a steal if he falls outside the Top 10.

6) I haven't seen Batum yet this year, but I can tell you he has as spectular a raw skillset as anybody in this draft outside of Beasley. He's a steal at 15. An absolute steal. Of course, this draft is very deep. Any of the Top 15 prospects that go at #15 is a steal. The lottery appears to be much less of an issue this year for that reason.

Thanks for the kind words, I appreaciate hearing that from someone who is very much in the know. I try not to just regurgitate everyone elses lists.

1) I still think Jordan has all the tools necessary to be an absolute star in the NBA, though I am somewhat less convinced that he will necessarily hit that ceiling. I think he still needs an awful lot of coaching and agree another year at A&M would be smart, but if he gets on a team who can wait on him I think with some time on the floor and in the weightroom he can become a poor man's Dwight Howard.

2) No arguements here. Lopez is an absolute stud and I do not get why more people are not seeing him as such.

3) I can see the Brandon comparison, but he has a little more flair and moxy to his game that brings to mind Paul and to a lesser extent TJ Ford. I would take Augustine over Bayless in a heartbeat. The guy does everything. He is a true PG who controls the game and gets guys involved, can knock down 3s, gets the the basket at ease, good free throw shooter, loves to take the last shot, and he is even a decent defender to boot. He has star written all over him IMO.

4) I feel about Greene like I feel about Jordan. He needs more time to get his game together and he does coast on the perimeter. But, his upside and skill set brings to mind 2 other guys I was very high on when they came out, Rudy Gay and TMac. I used to defend Gay by saying the game came too easily to him and he needed to be in the NBA to force him to take his game to the next level. I feel that way about Greene too to a lesser extent.

5) Hibbert has done nothing wrong really, I still love the guy. He has not really advanced much from last year, but I still like him an awful lot. What happened is a handful of guys came in and had much better freshman or sophmore years than I expected so Hibbert dropped even as his game did not because he was run down from behind.

6) I have not seen much of Batum either, but his skill set is awesome. I look forward to seeing him more as the draft gets nearer.

[Cammo101]

One more...

7) I remember a 6'5 athletic freak so raw he had to play PF in his one year of college. He shot a low % from the field, but did well on the boards and declared after the season. He fell to the latter part of the first round, but eventually emerged as a phenomenal power wing at the pro level.

I'm talking about Gerald Wallace.

I'm also talking about Bill Walker.

If he's there at 25, you take him.

I think if Walker can add a consistant jumper he can be sick. I think he should stay one more year to put the injury stuff to bed and also to show he can carry a team like Beasley did this year. He has a chance to be Gerald Wallace like, but he does not defend like Wallace does.

[UGA Hayes]

Cammo, you do a great job with your lists. One of the few people around here who actually attempts to scout the draft the way it should be scouted. You don't get hung up on your own opinions, are always looking for new information, and are quite thorough.

Just a few comments -

1) Not seeing DeAndre Jordan that high. Maybe he shocks us all, figures out how to play the game, loses the attitude, and develops a work ethic. I think he ought to stay an extra year and learn those things in college. Of course, he's so far behind the curve that if he stayed another year he'd get exposed - thus, he'd be absolutely insane not to declare this year.

2) I don't understand why people can't jump on the Brook Lopez bandwagon. He's the best 2-way player in college basketball, period. And his game absolutely translates to the next level. He's a 6'11, 260 pound center that is going to be able to put up a fight against the Yao's and Howard's of the league, and he's got a semblance of an offensive game even at the pro level. Tim Duncan still gets underrated by everybody to this day, and Lopez is a poor man's Duncan. Tons of people sleeping on this guy, because he doesn't make sportscenter worthy plays and because he doesn't make sportscenter due to playing on the west coast. I've been saying all these things since last fall, and you are obviously making the right call here.

3) Agreed on Augustin. The guy is a world-beater, controls a game in the way very few PG's can on any level. That part of his game isn't going anywhere, and teams that need a PG will be falling over themselves to draft this guy. Many have compared him to Chris Paul, but the player that always pops into my mind is Terrell Brandon. Just always a step ahead of the competition mentally, and has the natural tools to make up for his lack of size.

4) Donte Green is too high, IMO. I just don't see a Top 10 team drafting a 6'11 athletic freak so focused on the perimeter he can't even shoot 40% from the field in conference play. Obivously he gets drafted somewhere in the first round, but there are so many other viable options in this range that I think he falls.

5) I know you were high on Hibbert at one time, what made you change your mind? He's doing exactly what he did last year, saving his best for last. Thompson III has finally convinced the guards that he's worth passing the ball to, and G'Town has definitely taken it up a notch in recent games (amazing how that happens, isn't it?). I think Hibbert is a steal if he falls outside the Top 10.

6) I haven't seen Batum yet this year, but I can tell you he has as spectular a raw skillset as anybody in this draft outside of Beasley. He's a steal at 15. An absolute steal. Of course, this draft is very deep. Any of the Top 15 prospects that go at #15 is a steal. The lottery appears to be much less of an issue this year for that reason.

He runs the point better, but I think Augustin is going to run into a lot of the same problems Jameer Nelson runs into.

[UGA Hayes]

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I think if Walker can add a consistant jumper he can be sick. I think he should stay one more year to put the injury stuff to bed and also to show he can carry a team like Beasley did this year. He has a chance to be Gerald Wallace like, but he does not defend like Wallace does.

Man I would be stunned if Walker stayes another year. You think a guy whose career was nearly ended before it started is going to stay to put the "injury concerns to bed". No way in hell.

[Cammo101]

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Man I would be stunned if Walker stayes another year. You think a guy whose career was nearly ended before it started is going to stay to put the "injury concerns to bed". No way in hell.

I did not say he would, I said he should. If he comes out, he should not be surprised to see himself still available when the 2nd round starts. He is a pretty big question mark right now, and coming out would be a roll of the dice.

[BigSlam]

2) I don't understand why people can't jump on the Brook Lopez bandwagon. He's the best 2-way player in college basketball, period. And his game absolutely translates to the next level. He's a 6'11, 260 pound center that is going to be able to put up a fight against the Yao's and Howard's of the league, and he's got a semblance of an offensive game even at the pro level. Tim Duncan still gets underrated by everybody to this day, and Lopez is a poor man's Duncan. Tons of people sleeping on this guy, because he doesn't make sportscenter worthy plays and because he doesn't make sportscenter due to playing on the west coast. I've been saying all these things since last fall, and you are obviously making the right call here.

Tim Duncan? Wow, that's insanely high praise and not at all justified IMO.

Lopez isn't a quick thinker at all and has no "plan B" when he starts his move. It's like as soon as he catches the ball he might decide to attempt a drop step, and regardless of if the D collapses on him, he'll still try and complete his drop step.

I also think he is a bit of a black hole.

[$*DIPSET BOI*$]

Augistin and Lopez are way too high. It's amazing how Lopez went from underated too overated this fast. Earl Clark will definitely be a 1st rounder. You can't teach size, athleticism, and BBIQ.

[Silver Man]

There are a few things I have problems with.

1)Tyler Hansbrough should be a bit higher than number 42. DeVon Hardin should be a few spots higher. I believe that Shausa Kaun should be somewhere on the lower portion of this board. Also I agree with what some people are saying DeAndre Jordon is sucking right now, but when he gets to the NBA he is going to be an amazing player.

[Jonathan Watters]

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Tim Duncan? Wow, that's insanely high praise and not at all justified IMO.

Lopez isn't a quick thinker at all and has no "plan B" when he starts his move. It's like as soon as he catches the ball he might decide to attempt a drop step, and regardless of if the D collapses on him, he'll still try and complete his drop step.

I also think he is a bit of a black hole.

Well, I said "poor man's" Tim Duncan, and I'll stick with that. I'm not expecting him to lead his team to multiple championships though, if that is what you were implying.

And while I hear you on the whole "black hole" thing, I'd also ask you to consider the situation around him. He's got an offensively limited 7-footer behind him, a 6'8 SF who ought to be playing the 4 right next to him. There are no dynamic, attention-drawing guards on this team. When it comes to offense, Brook is it for Stanford. This shows up in his ridiculously high usage rate, but it is even more obvious on the court.

Simply put, the guy rarely gets an easy look. He hits difficult shots on a regular basis, and really shouldn't be passing the ball all that much given his teammates.

As for Lopez being a tweener, that is just silly. He's got perfect C size for the NBA. He locks down college-level but NBA-sized big men on a nightly basis, and certainly has the agility to step out of the post when he needs to. There may be some versatility here, but nothing even resembling a tweener.

[BigSlam]

I didn't suggest he was a tweener? You are right, he's the perfect size and shape for an NBA centre.

And while I agree that offensive options are limited for Stanford, that doesn't restrict Lopez from getting the ball in the post, realising that he is in a bad situation to try and score, passing out, re-posting and trying again. Instead, it's like he has a one track mind and like I said, has no "plan B". To me, even though he demonstrates soild post moves, that shows a low BBIQ.

Very un-Duncan like................and un-Hibbert like for that matter!!

[ISB]

Why are people so down on Mayo? He's no Kobe Bryant, but I can really see this guy being the next Brandon Roy. The way he's played at USC is completely different than what I expected to see, but while he's not at the Beasley level talent wise I think he's a much better character guy and teammate than he was given credit for in high school. He should make a great 2nd option in a place like Seattle, Minnesota, or Miami.

I like how much credit you give to my boy DJ Augustin though. I don't think he'll go quite that high, but he'll be an awesome pick for a team who needs a PG around ~10. Supposedly he wants to stay in school and graduate (was an academic all American this year with a 4.0 GPA) but we all know how little that sort of comment actually means.

[Jonathan Watters]

I didn't suggest he was a tweener? You are right, he's the perfect size and shape for an NBA centre.

I should have mentioned that this was somebody earlier in the thread. My apologies.

And while I agree that offensive options are limited for Stanford, that doesn't restrict Lopez from getting the ball in the post, realising that he is in a bad situation to try and score, passing out, re-posting and trying again. Instead, it's like he has a one track mind and like I said, has no "plan B". To me, even though he demonstrates soild post moves, that shows a low BBIQ.

I won't disagree with you too strongly on this. I will say that if Lopez was such a "black hole" as you state and forcing the action so much, you'd think he'd have a higher TO rate. He actually ranks #340 in the country in TO Rate according to KenPom.com, which is quite good for a player who forces the action so much.

He isn't a super-elite prospect in terms of his offense, but merely a darn good one. Give him the easy baskets that your average post player gets every game and he's shooting 50%+ and this isn't an issue.

He IS a super-elite prospect defensively, though...

[hard49]

Brook Lopez is not super-elite in any area.

We are talking about a 7 footer shooting less than 48% from the field in college playing beside another 7 footer. He gets pushed off his spot by 6-8 post defenders in college. He won't require double teams in the NBA and he won't punish smaller defenders.

[ponder276]

I think Lopez goes high not because he's gonna be a super-star, but because he's gonna be solid, and all the other top prospects outside of Beasley and Rose have a lot of question marks. Bayless and Gordon are both PG sized without PG skills, Augustin is really small, Jordan is a huge gamble due to his lack of real production so far, Gallinari is hard to judge because he plays in Europe, and OJ Mayo is a bit of a tweener (though I like his game overall). Lopez could easily go #3, just because he is a safer bet than the other prospects in his range. A lot of people have Bayless at #3, but I'm not impressed by his game at all, and don't think he even deserves a top 6 pick.
Who would you pick at #3 instead of Lopez?

[BRIGGS]

If I had pick 3 I would take Thabeet. Thabeet has more upside than any other player past pick 2. On top of that he can help have an impact for an NBA team from day 1

[Cruel_Ruin]

Cammo, do you really think Augustin has that kind of potential at the next level? He could be just another one of the great sub 6ft College PGs like Jameer Nelson.