Zerocious wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
you need 2-3 more emoticons
Butler Has Torn Labrum In Left Hip
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Donkey McDonkerton
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Pass_The_Sticks
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hands11
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Well we have hung in there about as best I think we could but now it's time to get CB back.
I was targeting this next game for his return but after hearing some of his comments, I doubt he will return for MIL even if he feels fine.
So what's going on again? He gets looked at Monday or he is going to test it Monday in practice? From what I can tell he is feeling better. He just wants to make sure it is healed enough to make it through the playoffs.
Now I'm hoping for a Friday return.
I still think there is some good growth this team can make while he is out. Mostly it has to do with NY getting more opportunities to grow his game. I think he is ready to really break out. I like that he is passing the ball more. 3 and 4 assists the last 2 games.
NY can still get a lot better, but I feel like we are on the hairy edge with DS, AD and AJ. 2 days rest is a very needed right now. I'd actually be fine if we played MIL without all 3 of them, so they can get 4 days rest. I would risk the one loss if it helped get them healthy so they have something left when CB returns.
I think everyone else, you pretty much know what you have. I just don't want to see AD, DS and AJ get injured trying to win one game, right before CB returns.
Once CB is back, we need to get them even more rest. We need to manage this thing with an eye on being healthy come the playoffs.
I was targeting this next game for his return but after hearing some of his comments, I doubt he will return for MIL even if he feels fine.
So what's going on again? He gets looked at Monday or he is going to test it Monday in practice? From what I can tell he is feeling better. He just wants to make sure it is healed enough to make it through the playoffs.
Now I'm hoping for a Friday return.
I still think there is some good growth this team can make while he is out. Mostly it has to do with NY getting more opportunities to grow his game. I think he is ready to really break out. I like that he is passing the ball more. 3 and 4 assists the last 2 games.
NY can still get a lot better, but I feel like we are on the hairy edge with DS, AD and AJ. 2 days rest is a very needed right now. I'd actually be fine if we played MIL without all 3 of them, so they can get 4 days rest. I would risk the one loss if it helped get them healthy so they have something left when CB returns.
I think everyone else, you pretty much know what you have. I just don't want to see AD, DS and AJ get injured trying to win one game, right before CB returns.
Once CB is back, we need to get them even more rest. We need to manage this thing with an eye on being healthy come the playoffs.
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bulletproof_32
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hands11 wrote:So what's going on again? He gets looked at Monday or he is going to test it Monday in practice? From what I can tell he is feeling better. He just wants to make sure it is healed enough to make it through the playoffs.
Now I'm hoping for a Friday return.
During his interview on the broadcast tonight he said he was going to practice Monday and see how he feels after 24 hours. If he's pain free he said it'll just be a matter of conditioning which he said shouldn't be an issue since he's been "doing some things" while sitting out. So, end of the week (Sat vs Clips?) might not be out of the question (assuming all goes well in practice).
hands11 wrote:NY can still get a lot better, but I feel like we are on the hairy edge with DS, AD and AJ. 2 days rest is a very needed right now. I'd actually be fine if we played MIL without all 3 of them, so they can get 4 days rest. I would risk the one loss if it helped get them healthy so they have something left when CB returns.
I understand wanting everyone healthy but at this point I don
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hands11
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hands11
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01725.html
This is why I would consider risking one game to give them 4 days rest.
These guys are getting real close to being added to the list of players unavailable to play at all. An ounce of prevention my be the wise move before it is to late and they miss a week or more.
I'm talking about against MIL. It's not like we are playing SA.
This is why I would consider risking one game to give them 4 days rest.
These guys are getting real close to being added to the list of players unavailable to play at all. An ounce of prevention my be the wise move before it is to late and they miss a week or more.
I'm talking about against MIL. It's not like we are playing SA.
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hands11
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miller31time wrote:Thought this was interesting. Not that it has any basis in reality, or that Antawn has any information more than just a hunch, but...
-= original quote snipped =-
Yeah, I saw that but didn't pay it much mind. I figured that had more to do with CB then GA. I could see a situation that has GA coming back with CB on Saturday but it seem like all the other information we have gotten leads me more to believe it would be the 25th ish. That would be the safer move and GA has said he wants to play it safe.
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bulletproof_32
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Donkey McDonkerton
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hands11
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Jamison won't beg Butler and Arenas back before they should, but he is optimistic that they will return soon, possibly this week.
Lets not confuse people. That is what the paper reported. I just doubt it applies to GA though I'm hoping it does to CB.
Anyway. If the logic is rest them against CLE because that is a game we may loss anyway, then yeah, that make sense to have them play against MIL instead. Off a loss, you get a win, then a loss, then CB is back. We should still be holding 6th. If not, only a 1/2 game back. That would work.
I have been worried they would break down. We all saw it happening but now it seems like they are on the hairy edge of going down. DS has a cane. Thats not good. Last time AD got some rest he came back strong for a few games but then the broke down again because he doesn't know how to ton it down. With only 1 PG, AD needed to tone his game down from daredevil to stunt man.
Several games ago I suggested EJ give these guys a break. It great he is finally only playing them 30 mins some nights but that needed to start happening a while ago. I know its hard to do but if you don't then what are we doing to have if they are out longer term. We can't then turn to CB and GA for max minutes and injure them again.
This game of musical injuries isn't good. I know we want to win every game but at some point you have to sacrifice for the bigger picture. We should have done that to start the season. We needed to limited their minutes more earlier and live with the rookie mistakes.
Max minutes leads to injuries. We see it every year. You have to play for long hall.
Lets not confuse people. That is what the paper reported. I just doubt it applies to GA though I'm hoping it does to CB.
Anyway. If the logic is rest them against CLE because that is a game we may loss anyway, then yeah, that make sense to have them play against MIL instead. Off a loss, you get a win, then a loss, then CB is back. We should still be holding 6th. If not, only a 1/2 game back. That would work.
I have been worried they would break down. We all saw it happening but now it seems like they are on the hairy edge of going down. DS has a cane. Thats not good. Last time AD got some rest he came back strong for a few games but then the broke down again because he doesn't know how to ton it down. With only 1 PG, AD needed to tone his game down from daredevil to stunt man.
Several games ago I suggested EJ give these guys a break. It great he is finally only playing them 30 mins some nights but that needed to start happening a while ago. I know its hard to do but if you don't then what are we doing to have if they are out longer term. We can't then turn to CB and GA for max minutes and injure them again.
This game of musical injuries isn't good. I know we want to win every game but at some point you have to sacrifice for the bigger picture. We should have done that to start the season. We needed to limited their minutes more earlier and live with the rookie mistakes.
Max minutes leads to injuries. We see it every year. You have to play for long hall.
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fishercob
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The data suggest that max minutes do not lead to injuries:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
The players that are high on these lists that have gotten hurt either sustained freak/unlucky injuries (Brand's Achilles popping) or are injury prone (Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom). But for the most part, the people on this list haven't spent much if any time out hurt.
So in the absence of more data directly to the contrary, I would say that the assertion that "max minutes lead to injuries" is false.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
The players that are high on these lists that have gotten hurt either sustained freak/unlucky injuries (Brand's Achilles popping) or are injury prone (Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom). But for the most part, the people on this list haven't spent much if any time out hurt.
So in the absence of more data directly to the contrary, I would say that the assertion that "max minutes lead to injuries" is false.
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BigA
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fishercob wrote:The data suggest that max minutes do not lead to injuries:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
The players that are high on these lists that have gotten hurt either sustained freak/unlucky injuries (Brand's Achilles popping) or are injury prone (Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom). But for the most part, the people on this list haven't spent much if any time out hurt.
So in the absence of more data directly to the contrary, I would say that the assertion that "max minutes lead to injuries" is false.
These exclude the people who don't get up to 60 games/2000 minutes or aren't on pace? The people missing alot of games, whether or not they play alot of minutes when they do play, aren't on this by definition.
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fishercob
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BigA wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
These exclude the people who don't get up to 60 games/2000 minutes or aren't on pace? The people missing alot of games, whether or not they play alot of minutes when they do play, aren't on this by definition.
Understood, but the relationship between injury proneness and minutes played is hardly a linear one. Factors like conditioning/healthy lifestyle, genetics, and luck likely play as big, if not bigger, roles.
Players play big minutes because they're very good and their replacements are not.
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Donkey McDonkerton
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fishercob wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Understood, but the relationship between injury proneness and minutes played is hardly a linear one. Factors like conditioning/healthy lifestyle, genetics, and luck likely play as big, if not bigger, roles.
Players play big minutes because they're very good and their replacements are not.
I agree....if player X plays 10 minutes, and player Y plays 2 minutes, it is obvious that player X has a better chance to get hurt JUST because he on the floor more. It doesn't mean that his chances of injury increase more in the 3-10 minute mark though because he has been playing....does that make sense?
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pineappleheadindc
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t through 95 percent of practice and we just cooled him down at the end."In his blog, Ivan Carter wrote: Caron Butler practiced for the first time since Feb. 18 and felt fine afterward. The next test, according to the all-star forward who has missed 19 games with a left hip injury, will be how he feels tonight and tomorrow. As Butler said a few minutes ago, he also felt good while practicing back on the 18th but woke up the next morning feeling "terrible."
A firm timetbale for Butler's possible return has not been set but what happened today was clearly a positive sign. Butler said he is meeting with a person who specializes in hip issues tonight.
"I felt good, real good," Butler said. "We'll see how the body responds tomorrow but, I was able to move around with no pain. At the end, we just decided to pull me out just because I was feeling a little soreness in the groin."
More Caron: "I just went out there and they threw me into the fire. Coach just said: "go and be you out there.' And I felt good. I had a nice rhythm and my teammates were looking for me. I just felt good."
Coach Eddie Jordan was very encouraged by what he saw: "He looked great today. A lot of burst, speed and explosion...great passing and just running up and down the floor. He just looked good today, a lot better than I thought. He wen
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hands11
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fishercob wrote:The data suggest that max minutes do not lead to injuries:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... eason=2007
The players that are high on these lists that have gotten hurt either sustained freak/unlucky injuries (Brand's Achilles popping) or are injury prone (Gerald Wallace, Lamar Odom). But for the most part, the people on this list haven't spent much if any time out hurt.
So in the absence of more data directly to the contrary, I would say that the assertion that "max minutes lead to injuries" is false.
Not sure how you got to you conclusion but I don't see the stats that way.
Beside, this data only show games played/not played.
By your assertion, DS and AD aren't injured because they are still playing. Never mind that DS walks with a cane.
So I guess you wouldn't think playing players coming off injury max minutes has anything to do with them being more likely to get injured again.
Common sense tell you that given an average player, the more minutes they are exposed to wear and tear the more likely they will break down.
Sure there are lots of other factors to look at like what kind of game do they ball but on average, there really isn't any debate against that fact.
You don't even need to be a statistics major to know that.