I'm really concerned that the Wolves are not going to end with the worst record. We really need a top 2 pick this year. Without the worst record....well, we all know how the TWolves draft spot luck has been.
Why are the Heat so terrible? They have one of the top players in the league (DWade). They play in the weak East. They've had Marion for a few games, but he hasn't seemed to help. Haslem is decent. And say what you will about Davis and Blount, but the TWolves were at least around .500 for awhile with them as starters last year, and thats in the WEST.
I'm hoping that Wade stays healthy, and with Marion they start picking up a few wins.
Are the Heat tanking? Why are they so bad?
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Are the Heat tanking? Why are they so bad?
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ace2301
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4ho5ive
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I dont think Wade is 100%. I think he rushed back and I think there is a rumor going on that Riley is going to shut Wade down for the rest of the season pretty soon, guaranteeing them the worst record.
Now as we have learned in the past (last year specifically) tanking doesnt always get you the #1 pick. Seattle and Portland played it right while Boston was obviously in shut down mode and they got burned for it. So not ending up with the worst or 2nd-worst pick isnt the end of the world. It only decreases the likelyhood. We still only have 12 wins, the sky is not falling. Well not in the lottery sense.
Marion is a get it where you fit it kind of player to me. He isnt a go to option on offense, and although he was an allstar before Nash went to Phoenix, he most certainly benefitted from having him run that offense, as well as having Amare, Bell, Barbosa and others to help shoulder some of the scoring weight. Haslem is good but not great. They have no PG, and Wade is a great player, but he isnt like KG who can get the most out of the players around them (RD and Blount). KG made everyone else better, Wade cant do the things he could.
Or maybe all of this is moot and Wittman>Riley
??
Now as we have learned in the past (last year specifically) tanking doesnt always get you the #1 pick. Seattle and Portland played it right while Boston was obviously in shut down mode and they got burned for it. So not ending up with the worst or 2nd-worst pick isnt the end of the world. It only decreases the likelyhood. We still only have 12 wins, the sky is not falling. Well not in the lottery sense.
Marion is a get it where you fit it kind of player to me. He isnt a go to option on offense, and although he was an allstar before Nash went to Phoenix, he most certainly benefitted from having him run that offense, as well as having Amare, Bell, Barbosa and others to help shoulder some of the scoring weight. Haslem is good but not great. They have no PG, and Wade is a great player, but he isnt like KG who can get the most out of the players around them (RD and Blount). KG made everyone else better, Wade cant do the things he could.
Or maybe all of this is moot and Wittman>Riley
??
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CB4MiamiHeat
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4ho5ive wrote:I dont think Wade is 100%. I think he rushed back and I think there is a rumor going on that Riley is going to shut Wade down for the rest of the season pretty soon, guaranteeing them the worst record.
Now as we have learned in the past (last year specifically) tanking doesnt always get you the #1 pick. Seattle and Portland played it right while Boston was obviously in shut down mode and they got burned for it. So not ending up with the worst or 2nd-worst pick isnt the end of the world. It only decreases the likelyhood. We still only have 12 wins, the sky is not falling. Well not in the lottery sense.
Marion is a get it where you fit it kind of player to me. He isnt a go to option on offense, and although he was an allstar before Nash went to Phoenix, he most certainly benefitted from having him run that offense, as well as having Amare, Bell, Barbosa and others to help shoulder some of the scoring weight. Haslem is good but not great. They have no PG, and Wade is a great player, but he isnt like KG who can get the most out of the players around them (RD and Blount). KG made everyone else better, Wade cant do the things he could.
Or maybe all of this is moot and Wittman>Riley
??
Blount has been pretty good offensively, Wades been getting him open shots ..i dont think Wade can make Blount/Ricky into good defensive players or make Blount into a good rebounder.
Or frontcourt yesterday was Alexander Johnson/Mark Blount/Earl Barron ....our PG is Jason Williams, hes shooting 37%.
We are not tanking, were just that bad.
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B Calrissian
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TheFranchise21
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Riley might be absent from some games to go do some scouting. I think its safe to say they're in tank mode.
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Frozen316
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Is it his job to leave the team during the season and scout players? I thought that's what scouts do. Is he getting overtime for this? Switching occupations? Can we have our players/coaches go do some scouting against/with/on the NCAA players? Maybe start coaching our potential draft picks early?This is not the same as if he was sick or there was a emergency, he should be fined or meh.
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big3_8_19_21
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CB4MiamiHeat wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Blount has been pretty good offensively, Wades been getting him open shots ..i dont think Wade can make Blount/Ricky into good defensive players or make Blount into a good rebounder.
Or frontcourt yesterday was Alexander Johnson/Mark Blount/Earl Barron ....our PG is Jason Williams, hes shooting 37%.
We are not tanking, were just that bad.
has Ricky's defense fallen that quickly? In minny he was a meh defender who turned into a lock-down defender on occasion.
Thriving on mediocrity since '89.
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CB4MiamiHeat
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big3_8_19_21 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
has Ricky's defense fallen that quickly? In minny he was a meh defender who turned into a lock-down defender on occasion.
its not that hes bad defensively, but we have him at SF a lot when we go small..its not really his fault, hes physically outmatched. When hes on SGs hes pretty good.
Blount is horrible, as you guys probably already know.
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revprodeji
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when is the last time the worst team got the 1st pick? The lotto will screw all!!!!
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revprodeji
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That was rigged. Does not count.
Of course the Heat are tanking. Why wouldnt they?
Of course the Heat are tanking. Why wouldnt they?
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Flash is the Future
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Frozen316 wrote:Is it his job to leave the team during the season and scout players? I thought that's what scouts do. Is he getting overtime for this? Switching occupations? Can we have our players/coaches go do some scouting against/with/on the NCAA players? Maybe start coaching our potential draft picks early?This is not the same as if he was sick or there was a emergency, he should be fined or meh.
Yes, it is. He's Team President and a minority owner in addition to being Head Coach.
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MartyConlonJr
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Hi guys,
Sometimes I watch the Heat and think they're tanking, other times I watch them and I can tell they are just that bad. There are numerous reasons, and I think the line on tanking and not is a bit more complicated than that.
I think that really long losing streak defeated a lot of our players and killed them mentally. Check out the scores in that period, before Shaq left. We had a 15 game losing streak with 10 games that we lost by 7 points or less. The Heat were in EVERY game at a point where they needed a win to get started, and they were TRYING to make the playoffs at that point.
Even after snapping that 15 game losing streak they were talking playoffs when they beat Indiana. So up until the end of January I think there was no chance of tanking, but playoff intentions, and we were still the 2nd worst team in the league. I think we have some mentally weak players like J-Will and Ricky Davis, Mark Blount (thanks fellas) and that our succession of close losses took it out of them, and they are no longer willing to put in the effort. Riley is at his wits end with these players (see his post game after the Golden State or Toronto games)
Overall the Heat has lost 25 games this season by 7 or less, 16 by 5 or less. Many being even closer than the score suggested, and all heartbreakers, when the Heat still needed the games. Give us half those close losses and we're a playoff team.
The other issues are:
* Wade definately not at full strength. Some days he just doesn't have it, and it's notable that he's laying up a lot of things he used to throw down, he didn't recover from surgery fully, it is quite obvious.
* Injuries - Shaq missed a bunch when he was here, Wade missed the first 10, Haslem, Dorell and Alonzo Mourning and many other less significant injuries, but all adding up
* Void at SF all year. Riley let Posey go, and Kapono, banking on Dorell, who has been a disappointment overall. Marion could have addressed it, but has spent a lot of time at PF with Haslem out.
* Defense and rebounding. With Zo out, Shaq traded, we have a fulltime starter in Blount and Earl Barron backing up. We also lately have had to start Alexander Johnson at PF. Those two are our enforcers. Yikes
* Pitiful PG play. J-Will was supposed to come back at full strength after injuries last season, but has been atrocious. We signed Smush to back him up, but he was even worse. Quinn has started a bunch of games for us, and most will admit he is no better than a third string career wise. When people argue about Kobe's support the year he was in the lotto, they say how can you win with Smush at PG, well, compare J-Will this year to Smush that year. Smush puts up better numbers almost everywhere. That's how bad it is.
* Maliase - as stated at the top, I think this is where the 'tanking' part comes in. These players have given up. I don't think Riley is purposely sabotaging the team and throwing games, I just think certain players have given up. J-Will is an expiring contract, has not played well and knows he likely won't be back. His body language is obvious, he doesn't care, and he's our floor general.
We start 3/5's of our lineup that absolutely sucks most days, between whoever is at PG and C, and depending on injury, whoever has been available at SF or PF (one has usually been terrible)
I agree that the 1st pick is no guarantee (in fact, worst record has a better chance at the 4th pick than any of the other 3) but IF Riley was tanking, I can definately understand the motive.
Most of us agree Bayless may actually be the best fit for our team as a scoring PG that would play well with Wade. He's an amazing consolation prize if the 'sure things' Rose and Beasley, aren't available. By getting the worst record, theres a 65% chance you get one of the three, and if not, the 4th pick is as low as you can go, and the guys there are not bad (I like Gordon, a lot of people like Thabeet on our board).
Sometimes I watch the Heat and think they're tanking, other times I watch them and I can tell they are just that bad. There are numerous reasons, and I think the line on tanking and not is a bit more complicated than that.
I think that really long losing streak defeated a lot of our players and killed them mentally. Check out the scores in that period, before Shaq left. We had a 15 game losing streak with 10 games that we lost by 7 points or less. The Heat were in EVERY game at a point where they needed a win to get started, and they were TRYING to make the playoffs at that point.
Even after snapping that 15 game losing streak they were talking playoffs when they beat Indiana. So up until the end of January I think there was no chance of tanking, but playoff intentions, and we were still the 2nd worst team in the league. I think we have some mentally weak players like J-Will and Ricky Davis, Mark Blount (thanks fellas) and that our succession of close losses took it out of them, and they are no longer willing to put in the effort. Riley is at his wits end with these players (see his post game after the Golden State or Toronto games)
Overall the Heat has lost 25 games this season by 7 or less, 16 by 5 or less. Many being even closer than the score suggested, and all heartbreakers, when the Heat still needed the games. Give us half those close losses and we're a playoff team.
The other issues are:
* Wade definately not at full strength. Some days he just doesn't have it, and it's notable that he's laying up a lot of things he used to throw down, he didn't recover from surgery fully, it is quite obvious.
* Injuries - Shaq missed a bunch when he was here, Wade missed the first 10, Haslem, Dorell and Alonzo Mourning and many other less significant injuries, but all adding up
* Void at SF all year. Riley let Posey go, and Kapono, banking on Dorell, who has been a disappointment overall. Marion could have addressed it, but has spent a lot of time at PF with Haslem out.
* Defense and rebounding. With Zo out, Shaq traded, we have a fulltime starter in Blount and Earl Barron backing up. We also lately have had to start Alexander Johnson at PF. Those two are our enforcers. Yikes
* Pitiful PG play. J-Will was supposed to come back at full strength after injuries last season, but has been atrocious. We signed Smush to back him up, but he was even worse. Quinn has started a bunch of games for us, and most will admit he is no better than a third string career wise. When people argue about Kobe's support the year he was in the lotto, they say how can you win with Smush at PG, well, compare J-Will this year to Smush that year. Smush puts up better numbers almost everywhere. That's how bad it is.
* Maliase - as stated at the top, I think this is where the 'tanking' part comes in. These players have given up. I don't think Riley is purposely sabotaging the team and throwing games, I just think certain players have given up. J-Will is an expiring contract, has not played well and knows he likely won't be back. His body language is obvious, he doesn't care, and he's our floor general.
We start 3/5's of our lineup that absolutely sucks most days, between whoever is at PG and C, and depending on injury, whoever has been available at SF or PF (one has usually been terrible)
I agree that the 1st pick is no guarantee (in fact, worst record has a better chance at the 4th pick than any of the other 3) but IF Riley was tanking, I can definately understand the motive.
Most of us agree Bayless may actually be the best fit for our team as a scoring PG that would play well with Wade. He's an amazing consolation prize if the 'sure things' Rose and Beasley, aren't available. By getting the worst record, theres a 65% chance you get one of the three, and if not, the 4th pick is as low as you can go, and the guys there are not bad (I like Gordon, a lot of people like Thabeet on our board).
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