Howard Bothered By Lack of Calls

Post #41 » by **Devin 1L** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:29 am

craig01 wrote:I am surprised nether player ever has just whaled off on an opponent after so many hard fouls.

"Sup?"

Hairy Midget · Post #42 » by **Hairy Midget** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:01 am

Shaq did used to get hacked harder, but he was also allowed to dish it out ten times more then Howard does.

Dwight gets hacked but he doesn't get any benifits that Shaq got.

MagicNolesFSU · Post #43 » by **MagicNolesFSU** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:20 am

shaq took a swing. To bad he missed. The ONE punch i want to see connect and shaq whiffs.

MagicFan32 · Post #44 » by **MagicFan32** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:38 am

Dwight gets penalized for his strength just like Shaq used too. The flopping though is getting absolutely ridiculous, a professional referee should be able to distinguish an offensive foul from a flop 90 percent of the time, and unfortunately everytime Dwight goes against a smaller flopping player they always get the call.

It's bull and I agree with him, what if we're playing Cleveland in the playoffs, you know who they will put on him? The flopping Brazilian and we are screwed.

lovehoops01 · Post #45 » by **lovehoops01** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:05 am

MagicFan32 wrote:Dwight gets penalized for his strength just like Shaq used too. The flopping though is getting absolutely ridiculous, a professional referee should be able to distinguish an offensive foul from a flop 90 percent of the time, and unfortunately everytime Dwight goes against a smaller flopping player they always get the call.

That's why I don't think it would do any good to give out technicals for flopping as some have suggested. They could negate the flopping now just by not calling the fouls. If they fail/chose not to recognize flops now, they won't be able to do so when technicals are supposed to be called either.

Besides all the whacks that Dwight takes, someone is literally going to rip off his uniform one night because they pull so hard on his jersey to try to stop him and hold him down that it stretches the hell out of it, and most of the time they are allowed to get away with that, too. Sometimes the upper part of the jersey around his shoulders is so stretched out by the end of the game that it is won't even go back to its proper shape anymore.

drsd · Post #46 » by **drsd** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:48 am

MagicFan32 wrote:Dwight gets penalized for his strength just like Shaq used too. The flopping though is getting absolutely ridiculous, a professional referee should be able to distinguish an offensive foul from a flop 90 percent of the time, and unfortunately everytime Dwight goes against a smaller flopping player they always get the call.

It's bull and I agree with him, what if we're playing Cleveland in the playoffs, you know who they will put on him? The flopping Brazilian and we are screwed.

Outside of the inner circle, the league has been very clear that contact is an offensive foul. The refs are calling this as they are directed. The flop itself is simply a way to illustrate to the referee that there was contact. And most contact is as of now a likely offensive foul.

Players play to the system.

Where there should be technical fouls is if a player flops without any contact whatsoever. That is un-sportsman play and within existing rules a foul-able offense.

mhectorgato · Post #47 » by **mhectorgato** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:59 pm

drsd wrote:Outside of the inner circle, the league has been very clear that contact is an offensive foul. The refs are calling this as they are directed. The flop itself is simply a way to illustrate to the referee that there was contact. And most contact is as of now a likely offensive foul.

But there are those who flop in a manner to exaggerate any contact - because in the NBA there is always contact down low. There's pushing, grabbing, etc... between the guys fighting for position, backing down, boxing out, etc ..

drsd wrote:Players play to the system.

Where there should be technical fouls is if a player flops without any contact whatsoever. That is un-sportsman play and within existing rules a foul-able offense.

I thought that at the beginning of this season, the league said that they would start to crack down on flopping.

magicmamma · Post #48 » by **magicmamma** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:05 pm

NBA refs are not so stupid that they don't know who the floppers are. If the NBA wanted to stop flops, all it takes is an order from the top telling them to call a foul on a known flopper only if it is beyond any doubt. You can always tell when the refs have been instructed to clamp down on traveling, for example, so it's clear they have never been told to ignore flopping.

No T is needed, just a no-call.

drsd · Post #49 » by **drsd** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:22 pm

If a player is fouled and he also flops, what is the ref to do?

I think this is the current situation in the NBA.

theTHIEF · Post #50 » by **theTHIEF** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:29 pm

i hate flopping with a passion, as someone who played overseas against some of the pansy style players...with that said, im excited for Gortat to get minutes, he looks like a professional flopper...hopefully it works out...

magicmamma · Post #51 » by **magicmamma** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:37 pm

I guess we have to define the term "flop." I wouldn't call it a flop if there was a foul. Falling down in response to a foul is no worse than flailing the arms when hit, which Hedo does every time. I don't see any problem with a little drama, only when a player fakes a foul and the ref buys it.

mhectorgato · Post #52 » by **mhectorgato** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:50 pm

magicmamma wrote:NBA refs are not so stupid that they don't know who the floppers are. If the NBA wanted to stop flops, all it takes is an order from the top telling them to call a foul on a known flopper only if it is beyond any doubt. You can always tell when the refs have been instructed to clamp down on traveling, for example, so it's clear they have never been told to ignore flopping.

No T is needed, just a no-call.

It appears that my mental timeline was off a bit:

From Jan 2007: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... ng-ON.html

National Basketball Association players who fake fouls might soon be penalized themselves, a league official said.

The NBA is studying how often feigned fouls, known as "flops," occur and whether officials can consistently tell the difference between actual fouls and embellishments, said Stu Jackson, the executive vice president for basketball operations.

"They're really difficult to determine in real time. They're meant to fool an official," Jackson told reporters today. "Are we going to be wrong more times than not? It's tough, but we're looking at it."

mhectorgato · Post #53 » by **mhectorgato** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:55 pm

(1) Sam Cassell, LA Clippers - He has been "poked in the eye" so much I'm surprised he isn't blind yet.
(2) Gilbert Arenas, Washingtion Wizards - How come he never yells "Hibachi!" at the foul line? He's there enough.
(3) Manu Ginobli, San Antonio Spurs - He is a high-flying, free-falling type of player. He's going to hurt himself before anybody hurts him.
(4) Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks - He screams and flails his arms and legs around like an unhappy baby.
(5) Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs - He's always trying to draw a foul, and always acts surprised when the ref calls nothing.

From: Jeffrey Bear's Sports Blog

Stu Jackson, VP of Operations for the NBA, announced this week that the NBA is looking into allowing referees to assess players technical fouls for flopping in games. FIBA, which is over international basketball, already allows its referees to hit players with technicals for flopping. As of now, the NBA is just looking into the possibilities of giving referees this added measure of power. I have played basketball both recreationally and competitively for many years, and I have never really understood how players flop. It's borderline cheating in my views. It's like traveling; taking anymore than 2 steps just feels unorthodox. While it could be an honest assessment that mostly everybody who has ever played basketball has flopped before, there are some that are worse than others. Without any further ado, I give you my 2006-07 NBA All-Flop Team:

http://jeffreybear.blogspot.com/2007/01 ... n-nba.html

TNMagicFan · Post #54 » by **TNMagicFan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:56 pm

These flops are usually so blatantly obvious is what pisses me off

magicmamma · Post #55 » by **magicmamma** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:12 pm

If refs can't tell a foul from a flop, it means they are calling fouls on the basis of the reaction of the fouled player rather than by observing the contact. That doesn't make much sense, because when a coach complains, you always see the ref describing where the contact occurred.

Perhaps they meant that refs could not determine from a fall whether it resulted from a foul. They would have to be able to do that to make it practical to call a T for a flop.

drsd · Post #56 » by **drsd** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:54 pm

magicmamma wrote:I guess we have to define the term "flop." I wouldn't call it a flop if there was a foul. Falling down in response to a foul is no worse than flailing the arms when hit, which Hedo does every time. I don't see any problem with a little drama, only when a player fakes a foul and the ref buys it.

Yeh, but sometimes there's a little bump and the defensive player makes a Matrix-type move to "fly" some 10 feet. There was a foul, but it did not cause the special effects!

But it's still a foul. And fans would call it a flop.

mhectorgato · Post #57 » by **mhectorgato** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:16 pm

magicmamma wrote:If refs can't tell a foul from a flop, it means they are calling fouls on the basis of the reaction of the fouled player rather than by observing the contact. That doesn't make much sense, because when a coach complains, you always see the ref describing where the contact occurred.

Perhaps they meant that refs could not determine from a fall whether it resulted from a foul. They would have to be able to do that to make it practical to call a T for a flop.

There's no doubt that this happens quite regularly in the NBA. This is a big part of "superstar" calls.