Chronicle: Celtics coveted Carl Landry in the draft?

[Tricky Ricky]

I'm concerned that you guys think Powe and Baby are better than Landry...

Maybe so but theres no way hes better than Brandon Hunter. I mean Hunters the next Barkley

[sam_I_am]

If Banks is a bust so are Allen and West. <g>

Banks is shooting 45% from the field, 39% from 3 and averaging 6.6 points per game. Those numbers are basically identical to that of Allen and right there with West.

Pete

Banks rides the pine for the worst team in the East. West starts for the defending EC champs. For a lottery pick Banks is a bust. For a late 1st round pick, West was a solid pick.

[theGreatRC]

Carl Landry is better than Baby, Powe and Gabe..Sorry, but it's the truth.

[sam_I_am]

Was Al Jefferson really a home run? I guess if you count McHale getting swindled to get Garnett he definitely was.

However, based on talent and draft position I don't think he was the steal that common belief here suggests.

He was drafted 15th in a very deep draft. He is 7th or 8th best player and overrated because people look at 20/10 and ignore his matador defense and ingnore the fact that he takes too many shots to get his 20.

Dwight Howard, Andre Iguadala and Kevin Martin were the home runs in the draft. Okafor, Deng, Josh Smith, Ben Gordon and Devin Harris all do more to help their teams win in my opinion. Shaun Livingston may have been better but we'll probably never know. Andres Biedrins is only 21 but not in Al's class. Neither is Varejao although he is more likely to help a team win a championship.

I think Al was a good pick. I think Danny and Doc's hyping of him was the real home run. Overall he will end up as top 10 in his draft but his career will be SAR-like.

[UGA Hayes]

^ Give it a rest.

[Tricky Ricky]

Was Al Jefferson really a home run? I guess if you count McHale getting swindled to get Garnett he definitely was.

However, based on talent and draft position I don't think he was the steal that common belief here suggests.

He was drafted 15th in a very deep draft. He is 7th or 8th best player and overrated because people look at 20/10 and ignore his matador defense and ingnore the fact that he takes too many shots to get his 20.

Dwight Howard, Andre Iguadala and Kevin Martin were the home runs in the draft. Okafor, Deng, Josh Smith, Ben Gordon and Devin Harris all do more to help their teams win in my opinion. Shaun Livingston may have been better but we'll probably never know. Andres Biedrins is only 21 but not in Al's class. Neither is Varejao although he is more likely to help a team win a championship.

I think Al was a good pick. I think Danny and Doc's hyping of him was the real home run. Overall he will end up as top 10 in his draft but his career will be SAR-like.

You really dont like Big Al do you?

[LarryBrdismyDad]

telfair was packaged to dump contracts and get theo's which was used to get kg.

Yeah and I am sure Ainge traded for Telfair and Theo with the sole purpose of shipping them to Minny for Kg. Ainge knew this all along LOL. You sound like Chris Wallace pimping the trade of Vin Baker because "Hey we got Shammond Williams". Even though these two guys we traded for had attractive contracts we didn't trade a lottery pick for attractive contracts. Ainge traded the 7th pick in the draft for Telfair because he thought Sebastian was going to be special and be an all star level point guard. Ainge failed miserably here as Telfair was a bust and that could be seen throughout our awful 2007 season. Just because we were able to package Theo and Telfair a year later as part of the package for KG doesn't mean that trading for these two guys and giving up the chance to take Gay or Roy was a good move.

[armageddon]

Landry proves what Ainge believes in. Guy's who prove themselves in college are the players worth drafting. So many upper-classmen drop in the draft because they become commonplace and have lost the label of potential (which typically never develops).

Landry was a smart very physical solid player in college who left it all on the floor every night. Nothing fancy, no highlights - but consistant. Another Gomes, Big Baby, Powe type. Probably never a starter but a 10-year contributing backup that every team needs. But not a potential homerun.

I liked what I saw of him in college but you couldn't tell if he would be a NBA player. I'm starting to understand DA's method of taking guys who have a proven successful body of work in college. This not only proves the ability but also the physical, mental, and motivational aspects of their games.

[tombattor]

Was Al Jefferson really a home run? I guess if you count McHale getting swindled to get Garnett he definitely was.

However, based on talent and draft position I don't think he was the steal that common belief here suggests.

He was drafted 15th in a very deep draft. He is 7th or 8th best player and overrated because people look at 20/10 and ignore his matador defense and ingnore the fact that he takes too many shots to get his 20.

Dwight Howard, Andre Iguadala and Kevin Martin were the home runs in the draft. Okafor, Deng, Josh Smith, Ben Gordon and Devin Harris all do more to help their teams win in my opinion. Shaun Livingston may have been better but we'll probably never know. Andres Biedrins is only 21 but not in Al's class. Neither is Varejao although he is more likely to help a team win a championship.

I think Al was a good pick. I think Danny and Doc's hyping of him was the real home run. Overall he will end up as top 10 in his draft but his career will be SAR-like.

Yeah there are a few players who are better than Al from that draft, but if Big Baby is a hit, Big Al's at least a 2-run HR.

[DynastyInTheMaking]

Assuming weight isn't an issue I think Baby will be more valuable in the long run.

But you can't overlook Landry's accomplishments this year as a second rounder. He's more involved with Yao out and they are still winning.

[celtxman]

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Yeah and I am sure Ainge traded for Telfair and Theo with the sole purpose of shipping them to Minny for Kg. Ainge knew this all along LOL. You sound like Chris Wallace pimping the trade of Vin Baker because "Hey we got Shammond Williams". Even though these two guys we traded for had attractive contracts we didn't trade a lottery pick for attractive contracts. Ainge traded the 7th pick in the draft for Telfair because he thought Sebastian was going to be special and be an all star level point guard. Ainge failed miserably here as Telfair was a bust and that could be seen throughout our awful 2007 season. Just because we were able to package Theo and Telfair a year later as part of the package for KG doesn't mean that trading for these two guys and giving up the chance to take Gay or Roy was a good move.

It is obvious that Ainge expected more out of Telfair, but you can't gloss over the expiring contract of Ratleff either and say that Ainge failed miserably as if it wasn't part of the deal. Whether he had Garnett on his mind or not, there were certainly avenues that were opened up with the best expiring contract in the NBA (factoring the amount and the insurance that would have paid the contract if Ratleff could not play anymore.) If Garnett wasn't available, certainly Gasol or Shawn Marion could have been available targets.
Losing out on Roy has never been a big deal. At the time they had Wally, Pierce and had to see what was going to happen with Green, Gomes and Tony Allen. Had Allen, Pierce and Wally not been injured, what was the plan to play Roy. It's easy to say now that Roy is a better player, but who cares? Simply put the Celtics are not championship material today had they drafted Roy or Gay and had not done the trade.

[ParticleMan]

Landry would have been great, but Baby is pretty damn good. I agree with the person who says it's way too early to judge who will be better. Both those guys are raw, I actually think Baby has more potential overall, though Landry is more ready and more solid. But I haven't seen too much of Landry. In any case, I don't think there is a big difference between the two.

A key issue with Roy coming out of college was durabliity. So far he has had durability problems. I was (and am) a big Brandon Roy fan but trading the pick for Telfair also got us Ratliff which was THE chip (along with Al) that got us Garnett. Roy is very good but he will never be a franchise player. He is a Pippen to someone's Jordan, but until they get that MVP-caliber guy (maybe Oden in 2 yrs?) they aren't going to be a championship contender. We are a contender right now. I am happy with that trade.

[billfromBoston]

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Yeah and I am sure Ainge traded for Telfair and Theo with the sole purpose of shipping them to Minny for Kg. Ainge knew this all along LOL. You sound like Chris Wallace pimping the trade of Vin Baker because "Hey we got Shammond Williams". Even though these two guys we traded for had attractive contracts we didn't trade a lottery pick for attractive contracts. Ainge traded the 7th pick in the draft for Telfair because he thought Sebastian was going to be special and be an all star level point guard. Ainge failed miserably here as Telfair was a bust and that could be seen throughout our awful 2007 season. Just because we were able to package Theo and Telfair a year later as part of the package for KG doesn't mean that trading for these two guys and giving up the chance to take Gay or Roy was a good move.

...actually, the exact motivation for the trade was turning Raef's two year deal into Theo's one year deal...the team was positioning to make a trade for an All Star and had been in negotiations with Minny for KG for quite some time, though they were also targeting a few other select players...

Telfair was a player that intrigued Ainge, so he got him in the deal, but Telfair's acquisition wasn't the priority purpose of that trade-this is fact...Ainge also knew that he could acquire another first rounder if needed during that draft and did exactly that...

...so your sarcasm is actually misplaced and it is you that looks like the fool...what i've written above is fact and incontrovertible...the team was looking to position itself for trade, the draft was subsequent to adding salaries as the team felt it had enough young assets at the time to consummate a deal, which they did...

Brandon Roy was widely considered to be a quality wing, but no pro scout was viewing him as a 2nd year All Star, he was considered a 3rd or 2nd option type and his ability to actually play the PG for heavy minutes wasn't something most teams were looking to gamble on...his heal and knee problems further clouded the picture...a team deep in wing talent wasn't going to draft Roy on the premise of him doing what he's done thus far-that's hindsight BS logic only a fan would create to make a point...GMs don't bet their jobs on longshots...(subsequently Roy has had injury issues both his years in the league, so one major predicted risk has come to pass and its one that could damage his long-term potential anyways)

You might not want to come off so harshly the next time you are commenting on something you have nothing but your own opinion to back up...turns out the poster you were slamming actually was far closer to the truth than yourself...

[GonzoLays]

Landry proves what Ainge believes in. Guy's who prove themselves in college are the players worth drafting. So many upper-classmen drop in the draft because they become commonplace and have lost the label of potential (which typically never develops).

While that might be PARTIALLY the case, Ainge looks for undersized bigs in the second round because they present great value. They don't drop because they can't play, they drop because they don't have ideal height. That's why Ainge drafts an undersized big every draft. Its just smart business.

I didn't know what Ainge was going to do before draft, but like I predicted, I knew he would select an undersized big in the 2nd round and he drafted Big Baby. Of this there was no doubt.

Brandon Hunter -- undersized big
Justin Reed -- undersized big (played PF at Ole Miss)
Ryan Gomes -- undersized big
Leon Powe -- undersized big
Glen Davis -- undersized big

And there you have it folks, GonzoLays dropping some more knowledge on you, kids. Hey, billfromboston, you are free to use this knowledge in your upcoming draft columns concerning the Celtics.

[LarryBrdismyDad]

[quote="billfromBoston"][/quote]

First of all the exact motivation for the deal wasn't to get Theo Ratliff's expiring contract. The motivation for the deal was the fact that Ainge felt that Telfair was better then anybody else he had left on his draft board at 7. Ainge even said that at the time you can go back and look at articles. Trading Raef for Theo was just to sweeten the deal for us because we were giving up a lottery pick for a guy who had been in the league for 2 yrs and had proven nothing. The motivation to do the deal was to get Telfair not to get Ratliff's contract that just sweetened the deal for us.

Ainge was scared off by Roy's knee injuries and I remember him saying last yr during a game that he didn't think Roy was as good a shooter as he has become. I don't know why Ainge didn't want Gay but many people questoned his desire. We also did have a logjam at the position at the time but everyone knew that Wally wasn't really in the Celtics longterm plans as him and Pierce were a terrible fit together because nobody could guard the 2. The Celtics did think that Green would develop but I thought that Gay and Roy would both be better then Tony Allen or Wally which they definitely turned out to be. We should have taken one of them here. Many GMs had Roy and Gay rated as top 7 prospects and many people on ESPN thought this deal was ridiculous at the time and it turned out to be a ridiculous deal for the first year.

As I understand it Ainge had Rondo ranked as the 5th best prospect on his list but even he didn't think Rondo should be picked at 7 if we could get Telfair and get rid of Raef's deal. Ainge later traded for Rondo but even he admited that he thought when they did the Telfair deal that there wasn't a shot in hell that we would get Rondo. He thought Rondo would be picked up and then when he was available at 21, Ainge knew we had to get him which was a great move. But once again this was lucky too in the fact that half the league passed on Rondo when he was ranked the #10 prospect in the draft by ESPN's Chad Ford at the time of the draft and was highly rated by other draft gurus too. Rondo was predicted by everyone to atleast go in the top 16 of the draft.

You can't go back and say oh well it was great now because we got KG. Getting Kevin Garnett should be credited to Danny doing constant talking with Mchale about trade possibilties and them having a great relationship as well as timing, and luck. We were in fact somewhat lucky to get KG. It was all about the timing and nobody could have predicted that. Who would have known that Seattle would blow up their team and trade us Ray Allen which sealed us getting KG? Once again it was just great timing.

If KG was traded during that draft like he should have been the Twolves could have had Tyson Chandler, Loul Deng, and Lamarcus Aldridge which would have been much more attractive then the package we ended up giving them. There have also been reports that GS offered Al Harrington, Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, and Brandan Wright for KG. I don't know if that is true and it seems skecthy, but if it is true that is a better package then they got too. Danny set us up in a great position to get KG by trading for the largest expiring contract in the NBA but that was not the main motivation for the deal. Danny should get credit for getting Theo and setting us up for future trades but that doesn't mean the Telfair trade was a great deal or even a good one LOL. You don't deal a lottery pick for an expiring contract LOL. Ainge salavaged a poor trade and he deserves credit for that but how close were we to not getting KG? I bet your tune would sound a lot different then. We would not have gotten Marion for an expiring contract. Gasol would have been possible but would the Celtics have waited until the deadline this year to make a move? It is hard to say. The main motivation for the trade was Telfair and thats the bottomline.