Trade Yi keep Villanueva...

DanoMac · Post #1 » by **DanoMac** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:32 am

I really think if it's more proven that Yi is 23 and Villanueva is still 22, you need to trade Yi. Villanueva may have on and off games, and my have poorer defense, but look at the Lakers with Odom. If the Bucks were to acquire some more big star somehow, Villanueva would be a GREAT complimentary player. And I feel a lot more comfortable with him for the future than with Yi, and I think Yi has greater trade value.

DH34Phan · Post #2 » by **DH34Phan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:38 am

Villanueva, when healthy, has shown great flashes as a Buck. Him and Bogut have also shown great chemistry whenever they've been on the court together.

Defense aside, he could be the most talented player on this team.

If we can get him signed to a cap friendly contract, he definitely should be looked at as a keeper IMO.

El Duderino · Post #3 » by **El Duderino** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:48 am

DH34Phan wrote:Villanueva, when healthy, has shown great flashes as a Buck. Him and Bogut have also shown great chemistry whenever they've been on the court together.

Defense aside, he could be the most talented player on this team.

Defense aside, the Bucks would be in the playoffs. Defense is half the game, so you can't say defense aside.

fam3381 · Post #4 » by **fam3381** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:48 am

DannoMac20 wrote:I really think if it's more proven that Yi is 23 and Villanueva is still 22, you need to trade Yi.

Villanueva is 23 now, and even if Yi is also 23, CV is about two months older (Yi's bday is October, CV's August). I personally think Yi is likely 23, but to be clear he's not older than CV.

DannoMac20 wrote:Villanueva may have on and off games, and my have poorer defense, but look at the Lakers with Odom. If the Bucks were to acquire some more big star somehow, Villanueva would be a GREAT complimentary player.

They might be similar in size and share some game similarities, but I don't think CV is close to Odom at this point. Odom's worst season is still better than anything Villanueva's ever done, and CV's defense is easily worse than Odom's. So let's start by dispelling the myth that those two are somehow of equal value. We already know that CV can't be productive coming off the bench, so basically we'd be committing to a Bogut/CV 4/5 combo.

DannoMac20 wrote:And I feel a lot more comfortable with him for the future than with Yi, and I think Yi has greater trade value.

I think it's become a perfectly valid question, and I agree that Yi likely has greater value trade-wise. It's also an issue of cost control, because Yi is on a rookie deal for three more years after this while CV will likely need a new deal after next year. Because of that and the fact that Yi has a much higher ceiling defensively I'd still lean towards him however. I just don't see CV ever being the starting PF on a contending team, and maybe Yi won't end up being that either, but I still think there's a chance of that.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #5 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:04 am

Interesting discussion. Neither Yi nor CV is a total stud, so I don't really care if we build around either of them. CV is clearly better today, and I do believe they are the same age, so I would never assume that Yi automatically has more potential, or is a better piece for the future.

However, Yi is clearly not a piece to win now or next year with, while CV could be. If the decision is made to stick with Yi, it had better be part of a dedicated plan to build around Yi/Bogut and some other young guys.

If Kohl and the gang decide to try and win right away, Yi should be moved for developed talent, but perhaps CV should too. CV wasn't good off the bench, and he isn't great in the starting lineup either. He's putting up inspired numbers, but his defense is horrible, and we can't tolerate that with Redd and Mo around.

On a team with Dwight Howard and Ron Artest on either side of him, CV's defense could be hidden sufficiently. But we don't have guys like that, nor any way to acquire them.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #6 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:12 am

adamcz wrote:Interesting discussion. Neither Yi nor CV is a total stud, so I don't really care if we build around either of them. CV is clearly better today, and I do believe they are the same age, so I would never assume that Yi automatically has more potential, or is a better piece for the future.

However, Yi is clearly not a piece to win now or next year with, while CV could be. If the decision is made to stick with Yi, it had better be part of a dedicated plan to build around Yi/Bogut and some other young guys.

If Kohl and the gang decide to try and win right away, Yi should be moved for developed talent, but perhaps CV should too. CV wasn't good off the bench, and he isn't great in the starting lineup either. He's putting up inspired numbers, but his defense is horrible, and we can't tolerate that with Redd and Mo around.

On a team with Dwight Howard and Ron Artest on either side of him, CV's defense could be hidden sufficiently. But we don't have guys like that, nor any way to acquire them.

Pretty good summation

I think our team could become instantly better if we keep CV and trade Yi while we bank instantly on his potential.

But, I do think Yi still could very well be the much better player and has the possibility to be an elite talent. So keeping him and trading CV for another young piece could work out well in a few years.

But would any fans or players (Bogut, Redd) still be around at that point?

fam3381 · Post #7 » by **fam3381** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:14 am

adamcz wrote:CV is clearly better today, and I do believe they are the same age, so I would never assume that Yi automatically has more potential, or is a better piece for the future.

Even if they're the same age, CV has more NBA experience, which I think is also something to consider. Yao was much better as a rookie than Yi, but he wasn't close to what he is now. So I think he needs to be cut a little slack for that.

LUKE23 · Post #8 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:14 am

CV will never be a starting PF on a contender. That is just a fact. He is arguably the worst defender at his position in the league.

He's a great scorer/rebounder off the bench.

Bucks_Revenge · Post #9 » by **Bucks_Revenge** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:21 am

yi has a better up side on defense as to CV plays the worse defense I ever saw a PF play in my life....CV is just trying to get his trade stock high for us.

Post #10 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:27 am

I think we saw earlier that CV off the bench doesn't work.....the CV we see now is starting to look like the CV in Toronto.

I'd actually like to keep Yi, trade CV. But that said, I'd call up Indiana this summer about a Redd for JO trade. Make JO our starting PF.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #11 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:30 am

fam3381 wrote:Even if they're the same age, CV has more NBA experience, which I think is also something to consider. Yao was much better as a rookie than Yi, but he wasn't close to what he is now. So I think he needs to be cut a little slack for that.

I have a video of the McDonalds high school game from CV's senior year. I'm not sure if I would say that Yi is any better than Charlie was then. Prior to having any NBA experience, CV was a lot more coordinated and smooth than Yi, and that is where my big concern with Yi lies.

europa · Post #12 » by **europa** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:30 am

I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread - I'd be willing to keep Villanueva and trade Yi if it was a strong offer. However, I'm just not sure if any team can win with a player so poor defensively in the frontcourt. Villanueva's defense truly is awful and at a power frontcourt position that is a major liability for any team - no matter how good the defenders may be around him. And of course on the Bucks, the defenders around him are typically pretty bad. So he just enhances the Bucks' greatest weakness.

I still believe Villanueva will be on another team when next season begins. If he can continue to put up good numbers the rest of the season hopefully that will raise his trade value and the Bucks can acquire good value in return for him.

ahagen87 · Post #13 » by **ahagen87** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:39 am

im not ready to just give up on Yi but if we do trade him i would like to see if there is any way we could package him w. our pick and trade up some how i know its a stretch but i think its worth a shot...or maybe a package of Yi Mo and our pick for a higher pick and a sf idk

Fort Minor · Post #14 » by **Fort Minor** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:20 am

Sine when has Odom been a bad defender? Or even a below-average defender? The "comparison" to Odom really holds no relevance. Odom is by far the superior player.

Seriously, have I missed something lately? Has Odom suddenly stopped being a good defender?

Raptors90102 · Post #15 » by **Raptors90102** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:25 am

Odom has never been a good defender.. Just cuz he plays on the Lakers doesn't mean he is a good defender.. When Odom was playing SF, Kobe was guarding the opposing SF's and SG's.. and Now that Odom and Gasol are playing together at the 4 and 5, that front court is as defensively challenged as the Bucks..

xTitan · Post #16 » by **xTitan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:27 am

The best thing for the Bucks is if CV keeps scoring and grabbing some rebounds....buy low sell high....perhaps the Bucks could take advanatge of some team.

europa · Post #17 » by **europa** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:27 am

I'd say Odom is an average defender. He's not strong in the post but he can use his length and athletic ability to his advantage on the perimeter. Overall, he is a vastly superior player to Villanueva. He's a much smarter player and he's a significantly better passer and facilitator.

Andrew34r · Post #18 » by **Andrew34r** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:31 am

LUKE23 wrote:CV will never be a starting PF on a contender. That is just a fact. He is arguably the worst defender at his position in the league.

He's a great scorer/rebounder off the bench.

NotYoAvgNBAFan · Post #19 » by **NotYoAvgNBAFan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:38 am

Typical knee jerk Bucks fan....one or 3 good games and now he is an all star. Villanueva is still garbage! Did we win any of those games?

Perfect example of a guy putting up numbers on a bad team. He is still useless long term!

He is only valuable for trade bait. You keep neither of them unless you get a true PF!

But if you must choose between the two you keep Yi...atleast he attempts to defend and he is more or a better all around player then Villanueva is now!

I would move them both in the right deal...You are not gonna be able to keep Villanueva and Bogut.

One of those two will have to go because we got too many other bad contracts on this team we should have got rid of in the Zach Randolph deal!

Randolph would have played and not called in sick or hurt like he is doing in NY now because he is fed up with Isiah and gotten us in the playoffs!

Is he the best option? Was he? That is not important...what was important is would he have made you better in the short term to show a fan base you care?

Regardless what you think of him and his past...yes h would have.

He was a perfect fit...for what we needed. A finisher around the basket not another jumper shooter...a banger, a rebounder, a wide body, and a beast on the offensive glass with a mean streak and long ass wing span next to Bogut!

And still maturing and still young not yet near his prime! It was absolute baffoonery to not pull that deal...I'm sorry.

Plus you would have got rid of unmotivated garbage who made it clear they do not care and want to bear here and play out of consceince of their paychecks and not devotion and passion for us fans...

I say frick them all!

rilamann · Post #20 » by **rilamann** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:12 am

If im building a team that I would one day hope to at least compete for a championship CV probably wouldnt have a spot on my roster.

CV has his good games here and there but the guy has no fire or competitive spirit.

I think once Yi gets used to the NBA and gets stronger CV wont even be in the same class as Yi by a longshot.

With that said I fully expect the Bucks to trade Yi and re-sign CV for 80 million.

Hopefully though CV plays well the rest of the year and we trade him for David Lee,that would be a great trade.