OT: When you guys see the Magic on the schedule?

[Edrock]

Do you guys chalk it up as a win or a loss? I just think this is an interesting way to gauge a non-Magic fan's impression of the team that I follow.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I figure it should be a really close game. Our teams seem pretty closely matched, and the records seem to reflect that. I also figure it will be a blast to watch Dwight Howard, and I hope he doesn't accidentally kill anyone. He's a monster.

[Sleepy]

Starting the very same thread on every forum leads to a suspension, doesn't it?

[Sleepy51]

Eh, it's a perfectly reasonable thread as far as I'm concered. I don't care what's happenning on other boards.


When I see Orlando on the schedule I expect a loss. I know we have it over you in spades in the backcourt, but I just expect Dwight to hulk out every time I see him play. I though he was going to get 50 agaisnt us last game and was flabberghasted that we actually disrupted him so well in the second half.

I was also impressed with how Van Jeremy resisted the bait and didn't go small with Nellie. He tried to keep his team playing their strong game, not mathcing up with our shennanigans, but somehow the guards didn't find a way to execute. Something is very wrong with your guardplay for not getting Dwight more quality touches against our frontline.

Anyway, I like your team, love dwight, and would happily never play you guys again, but I'm glad we did our stuff better in the second half.

See you in the finals!

[Twinkie defense]

Meister's talking about starting 31 identical, simultaneous threads

Interesting article relating to Howard today:

Howard still has a long way to go and there are no assurances he

[FNQ]

Howard's not a dominant big man... I dont know where the media gets this crap... he's never been that fluent offensively and is not a great passer or recognizer of double teams.

He sure as the set to become dominant and if he gets going one night offensively he can look that way.. but not consistently. Dominant = amazing skills + amazing physical gifts. Dwight's got the gifts but needs to refine actual basketball skills before he is generously called dominant.

But, as I'm about to post in 31 threads, I dont think its a loss or a win, I just think it will be a tough game.

[frsh90]

Howard's not a dominant big man...

Physically, Dwight's pretty damn dominant.

[Twinkie defense]

I guess it depends on your definition of "dominant." His numbers - 2007-08 Statistics. PPG: 21.6; RPG: 14.50; APG: 1.4; EFF: + 28.13 - are pretty damn dominant. Physically he's dominant. But like Superman, it looks like he may have his own Kryptonite.

[turk3d]

Top 5 big man now, will be #1 pretty soon (and that includes Yao). How many consecutive games has Dwight played? Becoming an iron man as well. There's not one Center in the game who comes close that I would take over him (except for Beans maybe, because he suits our game so well).

[Sleepy51]

How many guys have put up those numbers at 22?

I understand what 510 is saying though. Dwight is not yet a "give him the ball and let him win the game for you" guy like Shaq in his prime, or Olajuwan in his. But, he's headed there.

Dwight has to learn more and better footwork so that he has go to moves and doesn't need to get to the rim for everything, but he's well on his way.

He's also playing in a new rules era, where guards are free to move without being handchecked or bumped (or in Kobe/Wade/Gil's cases, breathed on.) Bigs may not be asked to dominate like they did when you couldn't get perimeter or midrange shots wihtout being mugged back in the 80's-90's. In that era, bigs HAD to dominate because everyone but Jordan was being clubbed in the kidneys whenever they tried to dribble. You had to be big to score a lot (efficiently) because it was a more phyiscal game.

Now, the bigs are the only players who have to deal with physical contact (except Baron, he gets Ref'd like a PF.) On a position relative basis it's harder for big men to score than ever before. Or you might say, there's less offensive advantage in being big than ever before. We may not see 80's-90's like big man dominance with the league/rules giving the scoring advantage to little guys.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I expected a Warrior loss in Orlando. I would expect Warrior wins in Oakland. Orlando should kick the Warriors butts on the board. Failing to do that cost Orlando the game. The Warriors should beat the Magic in forcing turnovers.

[Twinkie defense]

Leaving aside physical attributes like sheer size and strength, what percentage of big man skills like footwork, ball fakes, and post moves are more built in, and which can be improved a lot through learning and practice? Some guys just seem so natural moving around with and without the ball down low - Hakeem, KG, McHale... those guys could be in slo mo and still get a wide open look from one foot away with a guy draped all over them. Others just seem like they'll never look comfortable unless they can just overpower the defender for a dunk. Part of it is just huge guys just aren't usually as smooth and coordinated as their smaller, athletic counterparts. Can Howard "develop" into the type of big man with all the moves and footwork down low? Or now matter how hard he works at it, is there going to be a ceiling which prevents him from being among the greats?

[FNQ]

#s don't make him dominant... Sleepy got the point.

He's nowhere near as dominant as he could be. Imagine if Shaq was as cut as Howard - that's what I think Dwight's ceiling could be. He's not good on the offensive end. His sheer freak athleticism gets him a large chunk of his #s... that and his high basketball IQ. He's a smart guy in some aspects, but his footwork, touch, and overall offensive progress haven't been there yet, and I wouldn't consider him dominant, yet.

But as Sleepy also pointed out, there's not really big men like that anymore. Yao is close, but Howard's got the best shot.

[Sleepy51]

#s don't make him dominant... Sleepy got the point.

He's nowhere near as dominant as he could be. Imagine if Shaq was as cut as Howard - that's what I think Dwight's ceiling could be. He's not good on the offensive end. His sheer freak athleticism gets him a large chunk of his #s... that and his high basketball IQ. He's a smart guy in some aspects, but his footwork, touch, and overall offensive progress haven't been there yet, and I wouldn't consider him dominant, yet.

But as Sleepy also pointed out, there's not really big men like that anymore. Yao is close, but Howard's got the best shot.

I think when you say his offensive progress hasn't "been there" yet, you're being impatient. He's 22. He's about as far along technically at 22 as anyone but Kareem or Ewing. Those two guys got the best coaching in the universe in college.

There's plenty of time for him to learn. You're right that he's not "dominant" yet, but he's not progressing slow. He's on pace to get to a HOF level of play with maybe 12-15 years of solid play in front of him.

[FNQ]

There's no impatience... I didnt expect him to get there yet.

All I'm saying is that he's not dominant now, and what I think he could be if/when he eventually puts it together.

[turk3d]

If you had a choice of any center in the league right now, who would you take over DH?

[Ben_Dover]

510 you don't consider Howard dominant yet and i can understand your point, but at the same time what center playing in the nba today is more dominant at that position than Howard?
i can't really think of one. you might say Duncan, Amare, Yao, etc...
however i don't really see them as anymore dominant.
AND i'd take Howard over all three of those guys if given the choice.

therefore IMHO if Howard isn't considered dominant yet at Center, then at least he qualifies as most dominant in the nba today or real damn close at the very least.

[FNQ]

If dominant is relative to the rest of the others in the NBA (healthy), then yes... I'd take Ming and Duncan over Howard right now, btw. Both of them can take over a game on both ends of the court... Amare can't.

But if you are saying, can Howard really take over a game and be dominant? No. No chance right now. Maybe some flashes of it, but he's not on that level yet. Not saying he'll never get there at all, but for now he'll have to settle for being one of the best Cs in the league on a good team...

[turk3d]

I'd definitely pick Howard over Yao (has serious health problems and Howard seems almost indestructable) and would have to even pick him over Duncan right now due to their relative age (also in all fairness you need to factor in that Duncan is/has been a Center/Forward most of his career). To me, he's the top Center in the league already although I agree that this is certainly arguable. I think it would be really fun to watch him bang with Shaq (even at this age) since he's probably the only guy out there who might even attempt it.

[Sleepy51]

I think guys are still missing the point.

Dwight is not yet a guy who you would choose to iso in the post throughout the 4th quarter to close out a game, knowing he will get to the line, or create his own shot from the low block.

Right now, Dwight is still a guy who does much better being fed after the defense is broken down. He's a tremendous finisher, so you can count on him getting the bucket within the offense, but he's not yet the kind of dynamic post player who you can depend on BEING the offense down the stretch.

Think back to the Olojuwan/Robinson Western finals matchups. Houston would just give the ball to Dream over and over to whup his man in the block. You can not yet count on that kind of consistent dominant post scoring from Dwight.

If you are Van Jeremy, with 2 minutes to go tie game do you run postup isos for Dwight to pwn his man? Or do you ask your perimeter guys to run a set piece to draw the D away from Dwight so that you can feed him assisted bucket? He is already great interior finishier, but that's not the same as being a dominant center like the HOF greats.

He still has skills to learn. Saying he's not there yet is not a statement that he won't get there.