"The Next Larry Bird"

DynastyInTheMaking · Post #1 » by **DynastyInTheMaking** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:33 am

For years now any tall white guy who can shoot has been called a "potential Larry Bird" "the next Larry Bird" or something of the sorts. Many of these players are not even a poor man's Larry Bird. Players such as Michael Dunleavy, Luke Jackson and Adam Morrison are nowhere close to what Larry Legend was. Nobody thinks to compare a black man to Larry and that is rather unfortunate. The media has always named the tall white guy who can shoot as the next Larry. Well who would know Larry better than us Boston fans? We know that Larry was much more than a tall white guy who could shoot. He had an all around game that, at that time, had never been seen by someone at that size and height. He redefined the position. Players that have since been compared to him were nothing more than shooters/scorers and whether they lit it up in high school, college or even at times in the NBA, they were never destined to be Larry.

With the unfortunate stance that only a white man can be compared to Larry I present someone that has been under the radar....

West Virgina JR F Joe Alexander
6'8 230 16.2 ppg 6.1 rpg 2.4 apg

He is not someone that I have ever heard of being compared to Larry. He is a very good shooter and scorer and while he is not going to rain 3's on you all night long, he is the all around player that Dunleavy, Jackson and Morrison weren't. This man has really turned it on and has a chance to really make a name for himself this March.

NBadraftnet has him compared to Tom Gugliotta/Tom Chambers and going 13th in the 09 Draft

Draftexpress has him going 16th in the 09 Draft

I think he will only better himself by coming back next year and go at least top 5. If he comes out this year he should be top 15 and should emerge into 20 ppg scorer.

What are your thoughts on him?

Do you think there is a potential Larry out there?

Mr. Savage · Post #2 » by **Mr. Savage** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:40 am

Steve Novak is better than Larry Bird ever was.

I am serious, check this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzzN4exB8tg

Post #3 » by **Bleeding Green** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:41 am

LeBron is the next Larry Bird.

dwestside · Post #4 » by **dwestside** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:04 am

Mr. Savage wrote:Steve Novak is better than Larry Bird ever was.

I am serious, check this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzzN4exB8tg

Good stuff ...

DynastyInTheMaking · Post #5 » by **DynastyInTheMaking** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:25 am

Bleeding Green wrote:LeBron is the next Larry Bird.

Correction, Lebron is the first Lebron.

dwestside · Post #6 » by **dwestside** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:29 am

I've never been a big fan of "the next" title. There really never is a "next," simply because every player is his own individual. To say Lebron is the next Jordan, Magic or Bird isn't really fair, cause I see a little bit of each of them in him. That's sort of the evolution of the game really ...

GreenGrizz · Post #7 » by **GreenGrizz** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:32 am

I am happy with our team black or white. We are all green.

cisco · Post #8 » by **cisco** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:39 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:LeBron is the next Larry Bird.

Even though Magic was a point guard, I think Lebron is more like Magic than Bird.

GuyClinch · Post #9 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:51 pm

PP is alot closer to LB then people want to admit..

Granted not quite "identical" and Bird was better (passing, rebounding) at some aspects..but you can see plenty of similarity in this "old" version of Paul. I once read some statistical analysis that pegged them as similiar as well.

Bird naturally gets mythologized around here. I remember grousing that he should let McHale shoot more and could be a bit of a ball hog.

On the flip side of that - people really underplay his athleticism. Yes he wasn't a Jordan but it's not like Magic was really superior athletically, IMHO. Magic was fairly earth bound. Bird could move pretty well in his youth.

I think the young crowd remembers the "old" Bird who hurt his back and forgets the young Bird who once dunked in a preseason game and hung on the rim. Don't get me wrong Pierce is the better athlete - but the comparison isn't that crazy..

Pete

JiriMania · Post #10 » by **JiriMania** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:45 pm

DynastyInTheMaking wrote:For years now any tall white guy who can shoot has been called a "potential Larry Bird" "the next Larry Bird" or something of the sorts. Many of these players are not even a poor man's Larry Bird. Players such as Michael Dunleavy, Luke Jackson and Adam Morrison are nowhere close to what Larry Legend was. Nobody thinks to compare a black man to Larry and that is rather unfortunate. The media has always named the tall white guy who can shoot as the next Larry. Well who would know Larry better than us Boston fans? We know that Larry was much more than a tall white guy who could shoot. He had an all around game that, at that time, had never been seen by someone at that size and height. He redefined the position. Players that have since been compared to him were nothing more than shooters/scorers and whether they lit it up in high school, college or even at times in the NBA, they were never destined to be Larry.

With the unfortunate stance that only a white man can be compared to Larry I present someone that has been under the radar....

West Virgina JR F Joe Alexander
6'8 230 16.2 ppg 6.1 rpg 2.4 apg

He is not someone that I have ever heard of being compared to Larry. He is a very good shooter and scorer and while he is not going to rain 3's on you all night long, he is the all around player that Dunleavy, Jackson and Morrison weren't. This man has really turned it on and has a chance to really make a name for himself this March.

NBadraftnet has him compared to Tom Gugliotta/Tom Chambers and going 13th in the 09 Draft

Draftexpress has him going 16th in the 09 Draft

I think he will only better himself by coming back next year and go at least top 5. If he comes out this year he should be top 15 and should emerge into 20 ppg scorer.

What are your thoughts on him?

Do you think there is a potential Larry out there?

I just want to make sure I have this straight, you lament the fact that any tall white guy who can shoot even moderately well is compared to Larry... then you go ahead and compare a marginal college player to Larry because he is a tall white guy who can shoot.

Do I have that right?

Post #11 » by **Bleeding Green** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:10 pm

I think you've got it wrong. He's saying he's kinda surprised that people don't talk about him like the next Larry Bird when they so willingly attach that name onto so many other marginally talented, tall white guys who can shoot a little bit.

Except I don't think anyone does it with any sort of sincerity. Was there really anyone out there who legitimately thought Adam Morrison was the "next Larry Bird"?

It is annoying, though, that you can only seemingly be compared to a player of your own race.

JiriMania · Post #12 » by **JiriMania** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:08 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:I think you've got it wrong. He's saying he's kinda surprised that people don't talk about him like the next Larry Bird when they so willingly attach that name onto so many other marginally talented, tall white guys who can shoot a little bit.

Except I don't think anyone does it with any sort of sincerity. Was there really anyone out there who legitimately thought Adam Morrison was the "next Larry Bird"?

It is annoying, though, that you can only seemingly be compared to a player of your own race.

Fair enough...

On the subject of comparing players to Larry, don't call me untill a small forward puts up a 20-20 game... not to mention atleast one of those was against the Lakers... in the finals.

And I agree that Pierce and Larry are more similar than given credit, especially this year as we see Pierce's passing ability to go with his already great scoring and rebounding.

But still larry trandscends any players, and its not just putting history on a pedestal, he really was that amazing. He grabbed 20 boards against the like of Abdul-Jabar, McAdoo and Worthy, all extremely athletic front court players for the lakers, it wasnt just the Kurt Rambis's of the world.

I actually watched Alexander play yesterday, and he is a good player, but Larry Legend he is not.

GuyClinch · Post #13 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:46 pm

Truthfully race is the REASON for most LB comparisons - it's fairly explicit. It's not that they can't compare say Bird and Pierce or Lebron and Pierce. It's that the actual game play comparison is secondary.

it's that when people say the "next LB" they mean the next WHITE american born star. How exactly they play is not that important. So whether its Morrison or Dunleavy - their games don't matter. They are just great white hopes.

The league has had an american born white star since Larry Bird. Honestly the closest player (yes I am saying this) was Keith Van Horn. His game was closer to a white KG - minus the passing and D. But he was still compared to Bird. (Yes KVH coming out of school had some hops).

Basketball is now almost like boxing - we have no more it's totally dominated by Europeans, African Americans and Latinos. There is no Rocky Marciano equivalent - something lamented by none other then the Rocky Marciano of basketball - Larry Bird.

Pete

DynastyInTheMaking · Post #14 » by **DynastyInTheMaking** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:32 pm

JiriMania wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I just want to make sure I have this straight, you lament the fact that any tall white guy who can shoot even moderately well is compared to Larry... then you go ahead and compare a marginal college player to Larry because he is a tall white guy who can shoot.

Do I have that right?

Marginal College Player? Have you ever heard of Joe Alexander or seen him play? At 2:30 today tune into the Uconn/WV game and then tell me your thoughts on Joe.

My point was he is a scorer and can shoot well but is also much more of an all around player, not being the lights out shooter I am sure is what will prevent him from being compared to Larry.

Another part of the thread was the whole race issue. Look who NBAdraftnet compares him to - Tom Chambers and Tom Gugliotta - two white guys, who in their prime were pretty fine NBA players. I'm saying why aren't more black players compared to white ones and vice versa.

Maybe I am overhyping Joe a bit here but I think he will come close to several 20 and 10 seasons in the NBA. I think he will definitely make a name for himself this March which he already has begun to do.

vs. Pittsburgh 10-16 FG 12-16 FT 32 Points 6 rebs (w)
vs. St. Johns 8-19 FG 13-15 FT 29 pts 10 rebs (w)
vs. Providence 8-17 FG 5-6 FT 22pts 6 rebs (w)

Counting a 32 and 10 game against Uconn that was a loss on March 1st he is averaging 29 ppg and 8 rpg this March, while likely leading his team into the tournament.

So my initial post was hyping Joe/the race issue/and unrealistic Larry comparisons all rolled into one.

Taget · Post #15 » by **Taget** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:39 pm

Since Harold Miner is the next Michael Jordan and Eddy Curry is the next Shaq it only makes sense that the next Larry Bird is Brian Scalabrine.

Post #16 » by **TMU** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:43 pm

Taget wrote:Since Harold Miner is the next Michael Jordan and Eddy Curry is the next Shaq it only makes sense that the next Larry Bird is Brian Scalabrine.

Post #17 » by **Bleeding Green** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:10 pm

Shockingly I see a rare white player being compared to a black player at nbadraft.net. They compare Love to Unseld!

And hey, draftexpress compares Budinger to Ray Allen (??) or Kelenna Azubuike. They also compare Love to David West (??). Hansborough to Craigh Smith!

Maybe things are changing in the world of comparing draft prospects to players. At least they still seem to compare them to players who have different skillsets completely.

Cyclical · Post #18 » by **Cyclical** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:16 pm

GuyClinch wrote:PP is alot closer to LB then people want to admit..

Granted not quite "identical" and Bird was better (passing, rebounding) at some aspects..but you can see plenty of similarity in this "old" version of Paul.

Agreed. I was actually talking about that with a friend last night as we were watching PP operate in the first half against the Sonics. Very Bird like, finding teamamtes, being creative, playing good team defense. I like me the "old" Pierce.

a-rod · Post #19 » by **a-rod** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:35 pm

DynastyInTheMaking wrote:For years now any tall white guy who can shoot has been called a "potential Larry Bird" "the next Larry Bird" or something of the sorts. Many of these players are not even a poor man's Larry Bird. Players such as Michael Dunleavy, Luke Jackson and Adam Morrison are nowhere close to what Larry Legend was. Nobody thinks to compare a black man to Larry and that is rather unfortunate. The media has always named the tall white guy who can shoot as the next Larry. Well who would know Larry better than us Boston fans? We know that Larry was much more than a tall white guy who could shoot. He had an all around game that, at that time, had never been seen by someone at that size and height. He redefined the position. Players that have since been compared to him were nothing more than shooters/scorers and whether they lit it up in high school, college or even at times in the NBA, they were never destined to be Larry.

With the unfortunate stance that only a white man can be compared to Larry I present someone that has been under the radar....

West Virgina JR F Joe Alexander
6'8 230 16.2 ppg 6.1 rpg 2.4 apg

He is not someone that I have ever heard of being compared to Larry. He is a very good shooter and scorer and while he is not going to rain 3's on you all night long, he is the all around player that Dunleavy, Jackson and Morrison weren't. This man has really turned it on and has a chance to really make a name for himself this March.

NBadraftnet has him compared to Tom Gugliotta/Tom Chambers and going 13th in the 09 Draft

Draftexpress has him going 16th in the 09 Draft

I think he will only better himself by coming back next year and go at least top 5. If he comes out this year he should be top 15 and should emerge into 20 ppg scorer.

What are your thoughts on him?

Do you think there is a potential Larry out there?

I don't think that's entirely accurate, here is why:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/24/gallery.nbabusts/content.8.html

Fencer reregistered · Post #20 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:46 pm

Neither Bird nor McHale had much vertical leap. Rather, they were BIG, agile, and strong (McHale was a lot stronger than he looked), which let them get to where they wanted to be on the court. And they had good judgment about where they should want to be.

Walker wasn't a bad Bird analogue except for the hugely important "judgment" part. I.e., he had a very diverse set of basketball skills, and running/jumping were the least impressive parts of his athleticism.

I imagine other GMs were overvaluing running/jumping/offensive quickness in the 80s, because Auerbach built the greatest team ever out of guys who were impressive in those regards. And it wasn't just race -- white guy Ainge was probably second only to black guy Parish in traditional measurables (size/length aside) on the team, while part-black guy DJ didn't seem fast or quick on offense either.

(Obviously, the all-defensive teams these guys made suggest they were quicker on defense than one might think. But then, the next time Bruce Bowen beats somebody off the dribble will be one of the first ever.)