Does Lebron end up greater than Kobe all time.

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Post#321 » by Harmless » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:17 am

lj4mvp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Unless I misread it, you said Kobe had the better first 4 1/2 seasons because of one championship as the 2nd best player on the team. By that same logic, Pippen's 6 rings out rank Kobe's 3.


Yeah you misunderstood alright. I said it was ridiculous to compare their first 4.5 years. One won a ring in a tough conference but played second fiddle, while the other led a team to the finals in a weak conference. How do you possibly quantify which is better?

Can you tell me where I said Kobe's first 4.5 years was better?

in fact I said: " The obvious answer is, possibly, but it's no guarantee. Just because LBJ beats Kobe in stats the 1st 4.5 years is no guarantee that he'll be able to keep it up the way Kobe has."

Which is true. It's definitely a possibility that LBJ will end up better than Kobe. But it's also a possibility that something could happen in the future that prevents LBJ from ever doing that.

Th 4 1/2 year debate isn't who is going to be better when all is said and done, it's who got off to a better start using the portions of careers that can be compared.


Then you're going off topic because the question was whether LBJ will end up better than Kobe.
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Post#322 » by INKtastic » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:01 am

how is that off topic? To decide if his career can be greater, there are 3 things to look at.

1 - The first 4 3/4 seasons, which are already in the books for both players. See who's better there and by how much. This part should be easy.

2 - The next 7 years of their careers - Kobe's next 7 years are in the books, try to speculate what LeBron has to do during that equivalent period to match or exceed what Kobe has already done and speculate if he can accomplish that. Perhaps further divide that into Shaq and post Shaq for Kobe.

3 - the unknown last years for both players. This is the hardest part to speculate on.

If consensus can't even be reached for part 1, which is where I'm trying to start the discussion, how are we ever supposed to draw reasonable conclusions from parts 2 and 3?

And I've certainly watched enough basketball to realize that a faster start to a career doesn't guarantee a better overall career.
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Post#323 » by Chubby Chaser » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:14 am

This is a pointless thread
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Post#324 » by Elway=GOAT » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:07 am

The MVPlaya wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You can take Pip to lead your team. I'll take Kobe or LeBron.

Thank you.


I never stated that he was better than either, I just pointed out the the entire league pointed him out as the best all around player in the league in the 94/95 season.

Btw, Pippen has led his team farther, as "the man" than Kobe has as of now.
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Post#325 » by kooldude » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:25 pm

Kobe has a good chances of winning titles in the next 4-5 years in addition to his 3 rings which makes it alot harder for Lebron. But on an individual standpoint, I think Lebron will surpass Kobe by next year. His main weaknesses: free shooting and range shooting will improve and his defense has already dramatically improved. IMO, everything he can already do better than Kobe.
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Post#326 » by Frosty » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:30 pm

kooldude wrote:Kobe has a good chances of winning titles in the next 4-5 years in addition to his 3 rings which makes it alot harder for Lebron.


I actually think that Kobe's situation right now will determine his legacy. He has a championship caliber team and more importantly a coach that knows how to get there (I think that is the true key behind most Championship teams)

If he gets there he silences a lot of the critics. If he doesn't he reinforces the critcs view that he was a sidekick to Shaq. If this happens the door is wide open for Lebron to surpass him.
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Post#327 » by _BBIB_ » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:56 pm

Chubby Chaser wrote:I can't believe this thread is still going? It's an idiotic statement to even consider. This debate does nothing but try and validate LBJ when he's not yet on Kobe's level. He has to win a couple rings before this thread has any legitimacy.


Is it really that idiotic?

Lebron is clearly ahead of the curve in terms of production in his career.

Just as Kobe is the youngest player to reach every plateau he reaches, Lebron is the youngest player to reach every one that he reaches. And with the age limit the only players who ever had a shot at catching him were Durant and Thaddeus Young (good luck with that).


To put so much significance on post-season achievement is very flawed logic. That's when individual achievement turns into team achievement.
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Post#328 » by Harmless » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:47 am

lj4mvp wrote:how is that off topic? To decide if his career can be greater, there are 3 things to look at.

1 - The first 4 3/4 seasons, which are already in the books for both players. See who's better there and by how much. This part should be easy.


Easy? You're kidding me... If it was easy we wouldn't be having this 28 page discussion.

2 - The next 7 years of their careers - Kobe's next 7 years are in the books, try to speculate what LeBron has to do during that equivalent period to match or exceed what Kobe has already done and speculate if he can accomplish that. Perhaps further divide that into Shaq and post Shaq for Kobe.

3 - the unknown last years for both players. This is the hardest part to speculate on.


Speculation gets us nowhere. Kobe lovers and LBJ haters will hate on LBJ and try to diminish his accomplishments, while LBJ lovers and Kobe haters will do the same to Kobe. We can't predict the future, so why bother at all?

If consensus can't even be reached for part 1, which is where I'm trying to start the discussion, how are we ever supposed to draw reasonable conclusions from parts 2 and 3?


Totally agree.
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Post#329 » by MagicNolesFSU » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:21 am

Durant actually has a realistic chance to break some of Brons records just as LBJ broke KB24
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Post#330 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:12 pm

MagicNolesFSU wrote:Durant actually has a realistic chance to break some of Brons records just as LBJ broke KB24



Are you serious? Durant is not breaking any Lebron records.
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Post#331 » by Serpo » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:35 pm

Don't think so either Lebron's been younger when he came into the League even if Durant puts up similar numbers theres no way he reaches Lebron.

Durant will be a good scorer but not nearly the passer or rebounder that Lebron is.
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Post#332 » by tracey_nice » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:49 pm

The one year rule was implemeneted for Durants year so he was forced to go to a year of college. If the rule wasn't their he could very well of broken those records.
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Post#333 » by _BBIB_ » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:00 pm

tracey_nice wrote:The one year rule was implemeneted for Durants year so he was forced to go to a year of college. If the rule wasn't their he could very well of broken those records.


I think he may be a year younger than Lebron. 2 years younger definitely could have given him a chance.
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Post#334 » by Jimmy103 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:23 pm

That Nicka wrote:This is tough... LeBron will definitely have better stats than Kobe... but Kobe has 3 rings, and is in a situation right now where he can add to that...

IMO, it is gonna be a Wilt/Russell situation where one has the better stats, while the other has more rings, and its just personal opinion who you think is better... Both will end up being top 10 players though imo



Yea exactly like that.... :crazy:

Only Russell had 11 championships to Wilt's 1
Will Kobe add another? Maybe, more than that is a tough call...so even if we assume 4-1, clearly not as wide a gap

Also, please remind me when Russell ever played sidekick to anyone on those championship squads.

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