Buck fans "paper bag revolt" tomorrow night

Gant · Post #1 » by **Gant** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:46 pm

http://www.brewhoop.com/storyonly/2008/3/14/103649/531

(via truehoop)

This thing is getting a lot of press now. RealGm Buck fans are loosely organizing a paper-bag-on-head protest during tomorrow night's game against the Celtics.

http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=770932

Tommy's not doing the game is he? I don't think so. Too bad because he'd have a few gems in discussing the sacktop revolt.

Should be very entertaining. I hope this goes well Buck fans. ...just be sure there's nothing in the bags before turning them upside down.

Rocky5000 · Post #2 » by **Rocky5000** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:12 pm

This seems pretty disrespectful of Bucks fans to me. They should be happy to have an ownership group that isn't looking to jump out of the small market of Milwaukee. They should look at what's going on in Seattle right now, and realize they have no reason to be upset. The Bucks team is actually full of talented players, they just haven't got the mix quite right.

Was taking Bogut over Paul & Deron a mistake? Absolutely. Is Bogut a disastrous #1 choice? Not in any way, he's averaging a double-double, 2 blocks, and shooting +500.

Was taking Yi, when he didn't want to go to Mil, a bad choice? No, it seems to have been a clever move. However, Yi may have not been the best guy available at that point in the draft.

Milwaukee also played hard ball and held off on signing their players to large contracts in the offseason, which gave the team some needed financial flexibility. (I don't think the folks in MIL miss Earl Boykins at all.)

Bogut, Villanueva, Redd, Mo Williams, and Yi are all good players with good value around the league, it's not like they have any contracts handicapping the team.

freakon0mics · Post #3 » by **freakon0mics** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:18 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:This seems pretty disrespectful of Bucks fans to me. They should be happy to have an ownership group that isn't looking to jump out of the small market of Milwaukee. They should look at what's going on in Seattle right now, and realize they have no reason to be upset. The Bucks team is actually full of talented players, they just haven't got the mix quite right.

You make a good point here. I agree that some fans should be happy to even have a team. If anything, the fans should look at the front office and general manager for making poor decisions. The team is talented but does it all fit together. I haven't seen too much Bucks basketball to know how well the players are getting along, but for whatever reason they aren't winning. They might need to trade Redd and some of the older guys and build around Yi and Bogut. They have something with them 2.

eitanr · Post #4 » by **eitanr** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:40 pm

Milwuakee is not in great shape. They do have a plethora of some awful contracts including Dan Gadzuric, Bobby Simmons, and Mo Williams (yes he is an ok starting PG, but has 6 years left on his deal at 10 per...ouch).

I think things for the Bucks went down hill when they dealt TJ Ford. They didn't realize how valuable Ford was to the team. Granted the guy was injury prone, he made the team exciting to watch and gave them a chance to win every night. Mo Williams was valuable as well. but even more so when he and Ford were in the backcourt together. People always talk about never dealing big for small (which is what Toronto did in the deal), but in this case the small guy is one of the quickest guys with the ball in the league and the big guy plays like he's smallish (soft as a crazy).

After the Ford deal Harris needed to over pay for Williams and Charlie Bell...in created a chain reaction to the current dismal state of the franchise.

Truthiracy · Post #5 » by **Truthiracy** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:45 pm

I just don't understand the Bucks at all. They resigned Charlie Bell, who was obviously playing for a big contract, they give Michael Redd franchise player money (which he is not worth), sign Bobby Simmons, Gadz, and and Mo Williams to huge deals... they deserve to be in the dismal state they are in right now. Paper bag revolt-how childish is that?

tombattor · Post #6 » by **tombattor** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:48 pm

I don't think they should be thankful to have a crappy team... What kind of logic is that? Just because they are in a small market doesn't mean they shouldn't want the team to be good.

trwi7 · Post #7 » by **trwi7** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:21 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:They should be happy to have an ownership group that isn't looking to jump out of the small market of Milwaukee.

Why should we be happy to have crap teams for 20 years with the same owner?

Why should we be happy to have an owner who doesn't let the GM do his job?

Why should we be happy the owner has cronies that make the basketball decisions even though they have no basketball experience?

Why should we be happy with an owner who has used the excuse "I kept the team here" for far too long?

Why should we be happy with an outdated arena that was built for hockey in the first place and no discussion from the owner or city to try to get another one built for basketball?

DelMonte West · Post #8 » by **DelMonte West** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:23 pm

I'll never forget what we all thought about Milwaukee last year. That epic tank-fight (where they pulled a buttload of players out at the last minute before our game) near season's end was ridiculous.

It was like Mark Madsen shooting 9 threes in that stupid T-Wolves tanker a couple years ago bumped up a couple notches. Thank God we're through with that crap!

EastSideBucksFan · Post #9 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:53 pm

I will be at the game, but will not be participating in the paper bag revolt b/c I am waaaaaay too excited to see the Celtics.

But for those who don't know you guys have no idea how bad of an owner Herb Kohl is.

Here's a couple of highlights

Turned down a deal to get Carlos Boozer for Mo Williams/Jamaal Magloire two years ago

Turned down a draft day deal that would've brought Marion for #6/CV (Bucks fans are split on this)

Told Krystowiak to abandon the triangle offense he installed in training camp

Told Krystowiak to stop playing the more effective Jake Voskuhl for Dan Gadzuric

Has hired three cheap a$$ non qualifiied assistant coaches to be our head coach

Let our GM spend a lame duck year here while he had no authority to make moves at any point

Basically he is the worst meddling owner in the business and has a team of three lawyers making basketball decisions who know nothing about basketball

This team of lawyers is what led to us messing around with Charlie Bell and pissing him off this summer, overpaying for Dan Gadzuric, Bobby Simmons, Michael Redd, and Mo Williams.

Granted Harris had his hands in there as well, but when a GM has to take his decisions to a team of lawyers, who then negotiate with the agent (Mark Bartelstein reps over half of the Bucks current roster) we always end up overpaying.

This paper bag revolt is simply the fans giving a public display of disapproval.

http://www.last.fm/user/DPF55 · Post #10 » by **Buck You** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:28 am

Rocky5000 wrote:This seems pretty disrespectful of Bucks fans to me. They should be happy to have an ownership group that isn't looking to jump out of the small market of Milwaukee. They should look at what's going on in Seattle right now, and realize they have no reason to be upset. The Bucks team is actually full of talented players, they just haven't got the mix quite right.

Was taking Bogut over Paul & Deron a mistake? Absolutely. Is Bogut a disastrous #1 choice? Not in any way, he's averaging a double-double, 2 blocks, and shooting +500.

Was taking Yi, when he didn't want to go to Mil, a bad choice? No, it seems to have been a clever move. However, Yi may have not been the best guy available at that point in the draft.

Milwaukee also played hard ball and held off on signing their players to large contracts in the offseason, which gave the team some needed financial flexibility. (I don't think the folks in MIL miss Earl Boykins at all.)

Bogut, Villanueva, Redd, Mo Williams, and Yi are all good players with good value around the league, it's not like they have any contracts handicapping the team.

It's not for the players, it's more for the ownership. Herb Kohl and his cronies dicate what trades Larry Harris makes/can not make and is even dictating who plays and who doesn't play. He's meddling with the team and not letting the Basketball people make the Basketball decisions. He is a terrible owner and he needs to realize what he's doing is pathetic and stupid.

Also, we are handicapped by bad contracts. Dan Gadzuric- 4 more years and 24 million left, Bobby Simmons- 3 more years and 28 mil left and Mo Williams- 6 years 48 million left.

chakdaddy · Post #11 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Gadzuric is way better than Voskuhl...

Remember how the pundits all said Milwaukee got a steal in the TJ Ford deal?? Ford made that team go.

I see teams like Atlanta, Milwaukee, Chicago that are what we used to be - a lot of pretty good young players on paper, with nowhere much to go from there.

trwi7 · Post #12 » by **trwi7** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:58 am

EastSideBucksFan wrote:I will be at the game, but will not be participating in the paper bag revolt b/c I am waaaaaay too excited to see the Celtics.

But for those who don't know you guys have no idea how bad of an owner Herb Kohl is.

Here's a couple of highlights

Turned down a deal to get Carlos Boozer for Mo Williams/Jamaal Magloire two years ago

Turned down a draft day deal that would've brought Marion for #6/Simmons (Bucks fans are split on this)

Told Krystowiak to abandon the triangle offense he installed in training camp

Told Krystowiak to stop playing the more effective Jake Voskuhl for Dan Gadzuric

Has hired three cheap a$$ non qualifiied assistant coaches to be our head coach

Let our GM spend a lame duck year here while he had no authority to make moves at any point

Basically he is the worst meddling owner in the business and has a team of three lawyers making basketball decisions who know nothing about basketball

This team of lawyers is what led to us messing around with Charlie Bell and pissing him off this summer, overpaying for Dan Gadzuric, Bobby Simmons, Michael Redd, and Mo Williams.

Granted Harris had his hands in there as well, but when a GM has to take his decisions to a team of lawyers, who then negotiate with the agent (Mark Bartelstein reps over half of the Bucks current roster) we always end up overpaying.

This paper bag revolt is simply the fans giving a public display of disapproval.

Fixed. That was the actual deal which makes it even worse. :nonono:

RideEmCowboy24 · Post #13 » by **RideEmCowboy24** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:04 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Gadzuric is way better than Voskuhl...

Remember how the pundits all said Milwaukee got a steal in the TJ Ford deal?? Ford made that team go.

I see teams like Atlanta, Milwaukee, Chicago that are what we used to be - a lot of pretty good young players on paper, with nowhere much to go from there.

watch gadzuric play once please

boston fans who have no idea what the hell is going on with the bucks or anything about us at all should just let us be

childish? fine. we'll just let our franchise be destroyed as we sit passively by. you all have no idea

go enjoy your enormous victory tonight and sixty win season and leave us alone

CeltsfaninDC · Post #14 » by **CeltsfaninDC** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:37 pm

RideEmCowboy24 wrote:go enjoy your enormous victory tonight and sixty win season and leave us alone

I'm sorry...I thought this was the Celts board area....

Believe me, we feel for you guys. We had to sit through not only Pitino's disastrous tenure as coach/GM we also had years of fallout after he left. We're thrilled to have one of the best teams in the NBA now, but there were quite a few horrible years leading up to this one.

What do you think about Bill Simmons taking over as your GM??

http://www.last.fm/user/DPF55 · Post #15 » by **Buck You** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Gadzuric is way better than Voskuhl...

Remember how the pundits all said Milwaukee got a steal in the TJ Ford deal?? Ford made that team go.

I see teams like Atlanta, Milwaukee, Chicago that are what we used to be - a lot of pretty good young players on paper, with nowhere much to go from there.

Rofl. No way, Voskuhl actually looks like a basketball player on the court.

CeltsfaninDC wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
What do you think about Bill Simmons taking over as your GM??

Dream.

Rocky5000 · Post #16 » by **Rocky5000** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:13 pm

I forgot about Gadzuric, he must be the Bucks version of LaFrentz. All I'm saying is that you have to realize it could be much worse than it is. Imagine if the bucks traded Redd for Kwame Brown, would that make you happy? It was just a couple of years ago, when the bucks were a lot better than the Celtics, so things can definitely turn around with time. Nobody in Boston was happy with our team last year, now we're all thinking about championships. We haven't had a team this good for 20 years, sometimes it does take that long. Kobe Bryant didn't think management wanted to help him and was demanding a trade. Now, they have the best record in the West. If Kobe Bryant didn't understand what Laker's management was doing, how can you expect the fanbase to know? Every GM has made big mistakes, LA traded Caron for Kwame, but then turned Kwame into Gasol. Ainge traded Walker for LaFrentz, then LaFrentz and Roy for Telfair and Ratliff, then Ratliff, Telfair, Green, Gomes, and Jefferson for Garnett. We traded Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, and Marcus Banks, for Szczerbiak, who was constantly injured, and Olowakandi.(Bad in, Bad Out) But then Szcerbiak helped net us Ray Allen.

In all these cases, these trades have their root in GMs doing what seem like very stupid things. Maybe in a couple of years Gadzuric will help you guys net someone like LeBron or CP3, who knows?

trwi7 · Post #17 » by **trwi7** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:35 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:Every GM has made big mistakes

Again, read the thread on our board. This isn't about the GM this is about the owner and his lawyers that overrule the GM on everything. Right now we could have a lineup of Ford/Redd/Mason/Boozer/Bogut or Williams/Redd/Marion/Villanueva/Bogut. If the owner hadn't overruled the trades that would have given us those players then we wouldn't have a problem. He did do that however and has done that for the past 20 years. Just look at our records before Kohl became owner and what has happened since he became owner.

captain_cheapseats · Post #18 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:52 pm

I agree with most of what you Bucks fans are saying except all the Mo Williams hate. From what I've seen of him he looks to be a good young player at a tough position to fill who will only get better and better. I get that he probably makes more than he's worth, but not drastically more like Gadz/Simmons/Bell. Also, unlike the other guys, there is at least the possibility that there was another team that would have given Williams close to that much if you hadn't.