MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

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Post#621 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:37 pm

Tesla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



There is no way to know for sure... but lots of things play into that...

The Suns were what like 38-3? a few years back against the East... does that mean they would have a record breaking 75-7 record had they played in the East? No, I doubt that. Sometimes it works out that way. With schedules and such. When you have in your conference, several back2backs, on the road, playing the best teams 4 times, and they are scouting you much differently since you are a conference rival, its much much different.


Where do you get 75-7 from? there's only 22 games different, some of those 22 game are irrelevant. i.e. this year does it really matter if 4 games switch from boston/detroit to San Antonio/LA. Does it really matter if 6 to 8 games against Miami/New York/Milwaukee/Charlotte switch to Minnesoat, Memphis, Seattle/Clippers.

Match up Orlando with Dallas, match up Toronto with Portland, match up Philly with Sacramento, match up Cleveland with Denver. That's another 6 to 8 games that are roughly the same.

So the difference from one conference to the other is really only about a 6 to 8 game difference in schedule over an 82 game season. 6 to 8 easier games become 6 to 8 harder games. People talk like hte whole 82 game schedule becomes different.

And, as for cleveland, there is 2 years of evidence we play well against a western schedule. Both years better against the west than the east. Cleveland is one of those teams who seems to play better against the tougher teams than the ones who are supposed to be easier.
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Post#622 » by tracey_nice » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:59 pm

lj4mvp please do not argue east and west, it will not turn out good for you . And if you are just being ignorant hopefully soon you'll realize how big a difference playing in each respective conference is. Come on, if the Cavs and Lakers switched conference this thread would not be needed the MVP would go to Kobe Bryant by a landslide.
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Post#623 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:01 pm

I never said the west wasn't better than the east, I said the difference gets overblown.
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Post#624 » by tracey_nice » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:07 pm

lj4mvp wrote:I never said the west wasn't better than the east, I said the difference gets overblown.

Exactly, its not the West is FAR superior nothing is being overblown whatsoever.
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Post#625 » by Jules Winnfield » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:12 pm

CB4MiamiHeat wrote:Cavs would be out of the playoffs..but whats hes trying to say is some people make it sound that if they were in the Western Conference, their record would be worst..

I dont believe that, considering their record vs. the West is better than their record vs. the East.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Their record would almost CERTAINLY be worse. Extrapolating what their record WOULD be in the West from what their record is in the West is by far the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.
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Post#626 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:51 pm

Tesla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



QFT.

The Cavs wouldn't even be in the playoffs in the West (with their same record).


Who would you swap them with or would you just change the conferences to 16 teams and 14 teams?
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Post#627 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:56 pm

Jules Winnfield wrote: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Their record would almost CERTAINLY be worse. Extrapolating what their record WOULD be in the West from what their record is in the West is by far the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.


Why would it be worse? Why would they be worse playing the same teams a 3rd and 4th time this year that they are 36-23 (.610) against playing them 4 times each over the past two seasons? You might have a better case if you made this argument against, say, Orlando, who is barely over .500 vs the west or Toronto, who is sub .500 vs the west. But Cleveland has shown for two years straight that they match up well against most western teams.
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Post#628 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:05 pm

where is the site that tracks the records of east vs west for the past few seasons, including this season?
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Post#629 » by Bgil » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:10 pm

lj4mvp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Why would it be worse? Why would they be worse playing the same teams a 3rd and 4th time this year that they are 36-23 (.610) against playing them 4 times each over the past two seasons?


Because teams are usually built to play against their division and conference rivals. They also scout those teams much more heavily. That goes for the NFL and NCAA too.

Why do you think the Mavs and Suns freaked out at the Gasol trade and did virtually nothing after the KG/Allen trades?
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Post#630 » by abarl » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:22 pm

Some of you guys are str8up Copperheads
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Post#631 » by Blame Rasho » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:42 pm

lj4mvp wrote:I never said the west wasn't better than the east, I said the difference gets overblown.



Why is it overblown? The Cavs would be a mediocre team if they were in the West. Is that so hard to accept? Your logic is clearly blinded on this issue.
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Post#632 » by G35 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:53 pm

lj4mvp wrote:where is the site that tracks the records of east vs west for the past few seasons, including this season?



http://www.boxscorebasketball.com/eastwest.htm


I think this sums up the Cavaliers in the regular season vs the West.


2006-07

Cleveland vs Spurs season series Cavs won 2-0

Game 1 88-81
Game 2 82-78

Finals Cleveland vs Spurs series Spurs won 4-0


When you have just two games in between conferences for each team the biggest difference is familiarity. Teams don't know the teams from the other conference as well as they know teams from their own conference.

It's hard to prepare for teams in the regular season which is why the Suns are so hard to prepare for. But in the playoffs your true colors are exposed. I would think that if the Cavs played in the West and had to play the top teams they would be able to better prepare for the Cavs..........
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Post#633 » by Milan24 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm

abarl wrote:Some of you guys are str8up Copperheads

Someone must of learned a new word today. I've seen you post "copperheads" at least 3 times.
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Post#634 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:10 pm

this year east vs west - winning percentage of .572, virtually unchanged from last year's .571 an don considerably from some recent seasons like 04-05 (.638), 03-04 (.669), 2000-01(.636)


People talk like the west is historically strong vs the east this year when it's not the case. The top very teams aren't as strong as years past, the bottom teams are weaker.
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Post#635 » by abarl » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:13 pm

Milan24 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Someone must of learned a new word today. I've seen you post "copperheads" at least 3 times.



hahahah i know i love the word.

Its dedicated to a Copperhead i had a run in with earlier
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Post#636 » by G35 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:21 pm

lj4mvp wrote:this year east vs west - winning percentage of .572, virtually unchanged from last year's .571 an don considerably from some recent seasons like 04-05 (.638), 03-04 (.669), 2000-01(.636)


People talk like the west is historically strong vs the west this year when it's not the case. The top very teams aren't as strong as years past, the bottom teams are weaker.



I don't know what you mean by the west is strong vs the west but if you want to say the top WC teams aren't as strong as last year. You can say that after the top 4 EC teams they are weaker than the previous year.

Last year 7 teams finished at above .500 in the East. Right now there are only 5 teams playing above .500.

You want to say that the top teams in the WC are weaker this year but there are 6 teams playing above .650 ball. Only 2 in the East.

I think the WC record vs the EC is going to tilt even further towards the West because those are the games the playoff teams know they have to win. If you aren't playing Detroit or Boston you're expected to beat that team in the East......
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Post#637 » by INKtastic » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:43 pm

that was a typo - was supposed to read "People talk like the west is historically strong vs the east this year when it's not the case."

As for the rest

The top couple of teams in the west aren't doing as well as they have in the past. the bottom teams are doing worse than they have in the past. The result is there are more wins for the 2nd tier teams in their western conference games. For example, Dallas was a dominant 67 team last year, they've clearly fallen off and roughly 15 of their wins from last year go to other teams. Seattle has gotten worse, some of their wins from last year are distributed to other teams.

If it was strictly the western teams getting stronger, the west vs east record would have gotten better vs last year when it's instead flat.
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Post#638 » by LALakers4ever » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:52 pm

lj4mvp wrote:this year east vs west - winning percentage of .572, virtually unchanged from last year's .571 an don considerably from some recent seasons like 04-05 (.638), 03-04 (.669), 2000-01(.636)


People talk like the west is historically strong vs the east this year when it's not the case. The top very teams aren't as strong as years past, the bottom teams are weaker.

LOL, well guess what. The Cavs wouldn't even been in the playoffs with those "teams that aren't as strong as years past". So I guess that would make the Cavs one of those "weaker" West teams. :rofl:
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Post#639 » by G35 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:58 pm

lj4mvp wrote:that was a typo - was supposed to read "People talk like the west is historically strong vs the east this year when it's not the case."

As for the rest

The top teams in the west aren't doing as well as they have in the past. the bottom teams are doing worse than they have in the past. The result is there are more wins for the 2nd tier teams in their western conference games. For example, Dallas was a dominant 67 team last year, they've clearly fallen off and roughly 15 of their wins from last year go to other teams. Seattle has gotten worse, some of their wins from last year are distributed to other teams.

If it was strictly the western teams getting stronger, the west vs east record would have gotten better vs last year when it's instead flat.



Well you're right overall the WC record vs the East is about the same but thats due to the bottom feeders bringing their record down. Minnesota, Memphis and Seattle are getting pounded on but not just by the WC powers but the East also.

However people recognize that the top 9 teams in the West are stronger than any conference has ever seen. What that means is that making the playoffs isn't a given to a good team. An average team such as the Cavaliers would struggle to make the playoff's in the West.

I wouldn't presume that the Cavs couldn't compete but any reasonable conclusion that tougher overall competition would drive Clevelands record down.

I also don't think anyone can say that Lebron wouldn't still put up those same stats as he is in the East but there is no rivalry with the Cavaliers. The Cav's record would suffer with "payback" games. Such as Deshawn Stevensons comments. Teams in the same conference play each other tougher. You have to admit that.

There are no one man teams in the West. Lebron can't do what he did in the East ie make the finals in the West.

Spurs - Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Bowen
Lakers - Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom
Hornets - Paul, West, Peja, Chandler
Jazz - Deron, Boozer, AK, Okur
GS - Baron, SJax, Monta, Biedrins, Harrington
Suns - Shaq, Amare, Nash, Barbosa
Denver - AI, Camby, Melo
Houston - Tracy, Battier
Dallas - Kidd, Nowitzki, Howard, Terry

You can't be serious thinking that the Cav's could make the playoffs. Kobe went out twice in the first round, that would be the Cav's fate if they even made the playoffs........
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Post#640 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:17 am

Lebron wouldn't even make the playoffs in the West. That's why he is 5 on my MVP list. Couldn't even beat the Wizards without Arenas or Nets.

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