Vernon Wells injury, a good thing?

[Kosta]

I haven't been watching the Jays at all, just checking highlights. But I've noticed they've started winning a lot of games since Wells went down. Coincidence or not?

I think it would be in the best interest of the Jays to find a trade partner for Wells, gain a bunch of young assets and get his salary off the hook, and move Rios to center field full time and also give Lind a full time job.

[arrpy]

No, Vernon's injury is a terrible thing. When he first went down they lost a lot of games, and got swept many times. They are just starting to pull things together now. But many young players are starting to shine, so thats a good thing.

[beater97]

Ye, it is defiantly not a good thing. I can see your reasoning but Vernon is a very talented player.

[Relentless88]

Wells was leading the club in RBIs, the Jays have been hitting lately, but they still miss Wells a lot.

Definitely not a good thing...

[raps4life~]

Not a good thing at all. Wells was our best player when he got injured.

[r_gill]

No way is it a good thing, Wells is basically being replaced by Wilkerson and Wilkerson has been absolutely terrible this year. Offensively we have actually been scoring less runs without Vernon than when he was in the lineup. Most of the wins in his absence can be attributed to very good pitching and timely hitting. Also the players who were ice cold earlier in the year are finally starting to hit like Overbay, Scutaro and both the catchers plus Rolen has been a steady presence for us at third. If Wells can't come back healthy and both Rios and Hill continue to struggle this team is going no where.

[Michael Bradley]

Wells has a 116 OPS+ this season, plus he was hitting .387 with a 1.041 OPS in May before he got hurt. I don't think I have to post Wilkerson's numbers to show how much of a downgrade that is.

The Jays have been carried by their pitching and by their veteran hitters (Rolen, Overbay, Scutaro, Stewart, Zaun/Barajas). Rios and Hill have hit a nosedive offensively, and Wilkerson is an automatic out. The Jays need a healthy Vernon Wells to be able to sustain or better this type of record (17-8 in May). Either that or find a way to acquire Jason Bay or Adam Dunn.

[whysoserious]

I think what's happened is that it's forced guys to step up. With Wells in the lineup they were inconsistent but still picking up wins here and there.

Now, with Wells out they lost a few games and had to have guys step up. Rios is starting to come out of his slump and Rolen's been hitting consistently since he came back. The rest of the guys are starting to get some timely hitting as well.

And the pitchers just keep doing their thing.

[Griff83]

Wells has a 116 OPS+ this season, plus he was hitting .387 with a 1.041 OPS in May before he got hurt. I don't think I have to post Wilkerson's numbers to show how much of a downgrade that is.

The Jays have been carried by their pitching and by their veteran hitters (Rolen, Overbay, Scutaro, Stewart, Zaun/Barajas). Rios and Hill have hit a nosedive offensively, and Wilkerson is an automatic out. The Jays need a healthy Vernon Wells to be able to sustain or better this type of record (17-8 in May). Either that or find a way to acquire Jason Bay or Adam Dunn.

I was/am all for this, it just sucks that both these guys have prolly made there price higher in the past 2 weeks seeing both have turned it up significantly.

[mapko81]

With Wells in the lineup, Jays had the most untimely hitting in the league. That couldn't sustain itself, we were just victims of some bad luck. The hitting has become timely with Wells out however. I would describe that as a mere coincidence. With Wells in the lineup we would have been even better.

[whiterasta80]

Yes to Adam Dunn (lefty), no to Jason Bay (righty). Half the reason our team struggles offensively is that we don't have a good balance in our lineup.

As for Vernon Wells. I really can't believe that there's as much jock riding for this guy as there is. mapko81 points out that with Wells in the lineup we had terribly untimely hitting. However, its not hard to see that there is a cause/effect relationship here. Vernon Wells is not clutch, EVER, and brings our offense to a standstill when we need him the most. His ops is below 750 in close and late situations the last 3 years (go compare that to his financial peers and see how he looks).

He hits, but its rare that those hits are responsible for victories, and God help us if there's a runner on first and less than 2 outs with this guy. If he didn't have decent speed he'd lead the league in GIDPs.

I'm not saying that his injury helped our team (God knows we're worse defensively), but I doubt we'd have a single extra win if he were in the lineup (we just may have tacked a couple extra runs on in our blowouts).

[Raptor04]

Injuries are never a good thing. Wells is a big offensive threat and a great defensive presence. It's just one asset less.

Sure they're on a roll now, but who wouldv'e predicted that Stewart and Barajas would be on 11 game hit streaks?

I mean, I get that his bat wasn't working and it was a key out near the top in the rotation. But he's gotta come around someday, and this injury isn't helping that cause.

[Kosta]

Yes to Adam Dunn (lefty), no to Jason Bay (righty). Half the reason our team struggles offensively is that we don't have a good balance in our lineup.

As for Vernon Wells. I really can't believe that there's as much jock riding for this guy as there is. mapko81 points out that with Wells in the lineup we had terribly untimely hitting. However, its not hard to see that there is a cause/effect relationship here. Vernon Wells is not clutch, EVER, and brings our offense to a standstill when we need him the most. His ops is below 750 in close and late situations the last 3 years (go compare that to his financial peers and see how he looks).

He hits, but its rare that those hits are responsible for victories, and God help us if there's a runner on first and less than 2 outs with this guy. If he didn't have decent speed he'd lead the league in GIDPs.

I'm not saying that his injury helped our team (God knows we're worse defensively), but I doubt we'd have a single extra win if he were in the lineup (we just may have tacked a couple extra runs on in our blowouts).

That's the thing with Wells, he's not a big time player like a Ramirez or Ortiz. He's not clutch at all and he's simply not much of an impact player, I think Rios with lesser stats over the last couple of seasons has had more positive impact on the Jays. He comes up with timely hits and guns out runners all the time, and has the ability to steal bases.

I don't know if this is a mere fluke or what, but this is the best I've seen the Jays since I can remember.

Go out and see what kind of offers you can field for the guy, he's not a superstar player but he's being paid like one.

[whiterasta80]

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That's the thing with Wells, he's not a big time player like a Ramirez or Ortiz. He's not clutch at all and he's simply not much of an impact player, I think Rios with lesser stats over the last couple of seasons has had more positive impact on the Jays. He comes up with timely hits and guns out runners all the time, and has the ability to steal bases.

I don't know if this is a mere fluke or what, but this is the best I've seen the Jays since I can remember.

Go out and see what kind of offers you can field for the guy, he's not a superstar player but he's being paid like one.

Thank God someone else agrees with me. I'm not sure what exactly it was that prompted JP to outbid himself for this guys services but we need to try and take advantage of a desparate team (Mets Maybe?) before his contract is a real albatross.

[Michael Bradley]

FWIW, Wells hit really well in clutch situations in 2003 and 2006. Regardless, I don't think anyone is saying he's an elite player. He's not. He's a good two-way player when healthy with 30 HR power. When he's on, he's an all-star (2003, 2006). When he's not, he's slightly above average (2004, 2005). When his shoulder is messed up, he's garbage (2007). The point is, despite all his inconsistency, he's still one of the best hitters on the roster, and certainly better than anyone who has replaced him since he went down (Wilkerson in particular). The question with him from year to year is whether he's going to be the 130 OPS+ player or the 100 OPS+ player. This season he sits at 117, which is pretty good. The Jays need him to be healthy if they want to stay in contention.

[The Flying Gent]

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That's the thing with Wells, he's not a big time player like a Ramirez or Ortiz. He's not clutch at all and he's simply not much of an impact player, I think Rios with lesser stats over the last couple of seasons has had more positive impact on the Jays. He comes up with timely hits and guns out runners all the time, and has the ability to steal bases.

I don't know if this is a mere fluke or what, but this is the best I've seen the Jays since I can remember.

Go out and see what kind of offers you can field for the guy, he's not a superstar player but he's being paid like one.

That's absolutely ridiculous. You go ahead and take the player with lesser stats and i'll take the guys who have the numbers to back them up. You will lose more games every time, my friend.

[Duffman100]

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That's absolutely ridiculous. You go ahead and take the player with lesser stats and i'll take the guys who have the numbers to back them up. You will lose more games every time, my friend.

Have you noticed that Wells pads his numbers in blowouts (either way) but strikes out or GIDP when we need him the most?

I'll take clutch hitting over stats any day, you will lose more game over time.

[The Flying Gent]

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Have you noticed that Wells pads his numbers in blowouts (either way) but strikes out or GIDP when we need him the most?

I'll take clutch hitting over stats any day, you will lose more game over time.

There's no such thing as clutch hitting; only good hitting, and bad. Of course, your welcome to prove otherwise...

[Duffman100]

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There's no such thing as clutch hitting; only good hitting, and bad. Of course, your welcome to prove otherwise...

No such thing as clutch hitting, are you insane?

Down by 1 run, getting a single in the 8th, with runners in scoring position is the same as getting a single in the 2nd inning with no one on base?

[The Flying Gent]

Yes. A good hitter is more likely than a bad hitter to get the hit in the 8th with men on; but if a bad hitter gets the hit, it doesn't give him some fantastical ability to be better than he is the rest of the time.