How many rings would the Bulls of yore win with Kobe?

ubernathan · Post #1 » by **ubernathan** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:34 am

Suppose you put Kobe in a time machine and put him with Jordan's bulls. How many rings would they win with him? On the flip side, how many rings would the Lakers have won with Jordan?

I say Kobe would have won at most one ring with the Bulls, while Jordan would win at least 5, the 3 that Kobe won and the mighty Payton, Jordan, Malone, Shaq teamup, and they would have stayed together the next season and won another.

NetsForce · Post #2 » by **NetsForce** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:42 am

At least 8.

LiquidFire · Post #3 » by **LiquidFire** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:27 am

None. the things jordan did, kobe couldnt even think of doing.

Hard2dhole · Post #4 » by **Hard2dhole** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:31 am

Kobe on the Bulls would have lost with out question to the Jazz both times as well as Barkley and the Suns in 93, most likely lost to Drexler and the Blazers 92, and possibly the Sonics in 96. Thier best chance would have been against Magic and the Lakers in 91. Kobe would get 0-1 rings. This would have kept Mailman and Glove from going to the Lakers in the first place so that would have left Jordan with 3 max.

Phil Jackson · Post #5 » by **Phil Jackson** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:40 am

More than Michael Jordan.

Jordan23Forever · Post #6 » by **Jordan23Forever** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:55 am

Could be anything from 2-4. I think Chicago with Kobe has a hard time getting past the Sonics in '96 and the Jazz in '98. No guarantee that they beat Portland, either. Aside from the Finalists, do they even get past the '91 Pistons, '92 and '93 Knicks, '98 Pacers, '97 Heat, or '92 Cavs? I'm not sure.

So I say anywhere between 2-4. Definitely not 6 imo. These players are not interchangeable, despite what some may suggest. If I had to put a percentage on the probability of them winning a certain number of championships, it would probably be like so:

1: 90-95%
2: 70-80%
3: 50-60%
4: 25-35%
5: 5-10%
6: 0-5%

EHL · Post #7 » by **EHL** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:07 am

Not sure why anyone would think the Jazz would have been difficult to get by considering they had no real interior defensive presence whatsoever and their best perimeter defenders were Russell and Anderson, who Kobe torched throughout his younger days and would do even worse to in his prime. Sonics would have been difficult, though Jordan performed pretty poorly against them in the Finals so I'm not sure he'd do any worse there. He'd get 4 titles IMO, maybe even 5, though very unlikely he'd get all 6 just because of durability and inferior defensive impact.

Wade3Iverson · Post #8 » by **Wade3Iverson** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:17 pm

5.........minimum

hermes · Post #9 » by **hermes** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:33 pm

prekazi · Post #10 » by **prekazi** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:28 pm

B-Scott · Post #11 » by **B-Scott** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:28 pm

With the 1991 Lakers not being the same team with Worthy injured and Kareem and Michael Cooper retired i think he would have gotten a ring with the Bulls that season and possibly in 1994 also when the Bulls went 55-27 without MJ.

I think the Bulls beat the Knicks if you add Kobe to that 1994 team and eventually beaten the Pacers and played the Rockets in the NBA Finals.

Kobe vs Akeem

Neel · Post #12 » by **Neel** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:59 pm

I say he wins 2-3

MT1983 · Post #13 » by **MT1983** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:26 pm

Honestly? I say zero. Yup, none. I don't see how people can say a guy that hasn't seen the second round as the undisputed best player on his team (was up 3-1 in 2006), nor did championship quality teams he led in scoring win it all in 2003 and 2004, could lead the Bulls to 4-6 titles in place of the best player that's ever lived. Yeah, I know, he'd have more help playing with those Bulls teams. But he would also being going up against better competition. Could Kobe utterly and completely dominate an entire playoffs and finals the same way Michael Jordan did? Taking a good look at Kobe's playoff history, only in one playoffs, 2001, did he completely and utterly dominate, and that was only through the West playoffs. He came back to earth a little in the finals.

Could Kobe nearly out-assist Magic the way Michael did? Could Kobe humiliate Clyde Drexler the way Michael did? Could Kobe single-handedly take out the Suns and MVP Charles Barkley the way Michael did? Considering Kobe's been outplayed by the likes of Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, and Rip Hamilton, I'd say no. And that's only talking about the finals. In some years, the Bulls' best competition came before the finals.

Chris435 · Post #14 » by **Chris435** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:54 pm

MT1983 wrote:Honestly? I say zero. Yup, none. I don't see how people can say a guy that hasn't seen the second round as the undisputed best player on his team (was up 3-1 in 2006), nor did championship quality teams he led in scoring win it all in 2003 and 2004, could lead the Bulls to 4-6 titles in place of the best player that's ever lived. Yeah, I know, he'd have more help playing with those Bulls teams. But he would also being going up against better competition. Could Kobe utterly and completely dominate an entire playoffs and finals the same way Michael Jordan did? Taking a good look at Kobe's playoff history, only in one playoffs, 2001, did he completely and utterly dominate, and that was only through the West playoffs. He came back to earth a little in the finals.

Could Kobe nearly out-assist Magic the way Michael did? Could Kobe humiliate Clyde Drexler the way Michael did? Could Kobe single-handedly take out the Suns and MVP Charles Barkley the way Michael did? Considering Kobe's been outplayed by the likes of Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, and Rip Hamilton, I'd say no. And that's only talking about the finals. In some years, the Bulls' best competition came before the finals.

Geez... how about considering the supporting cast on these two teams? Many people are very, very critical of Kobe to do the absolutely ridiculous. Who actually expected Kobe to get past those Suns teams? That would have been unbeliveable.

I'm a huge MJ fan, but please be realistic.

MT1983 · Post #15 » by **MT1983** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:15 pm

Chris435 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Geez... how about considering the supporting cast on these two teams? Many people are very, very critical of Kobe to do the absolutely ridiculous. Who actually expected Kobe to get past those Suns teams? That would have been unbeliveable.

I'm a huge MJ fan, but please be realistic.

They were up 3-1 in 2006. They didn't finish the job. And as the star of the team, Kobe has to take some heat. That's just the way it goes. I remember plenty of fans (a lot of Laker fans) killing T-mac when his Magic team choked away a 3-1 lead to the Pistons in 2003. Kobe's no different.

a-rod · Post #16 » by **a-rod** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:27 pm

I say 4...

yongaz · Post #17 » by **yongaz** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:52 pm

MT1983 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

They were up 3-1 in 2006. They didn't finish the job. And as the star of the team, Kobe has to take some heat. That's just the way it goes. I remember plenty of fans (a lot of Laker fans) killing T-mac when his Magic team choked away a 3-1 lead to the Pistons in 2003. Kobe's no different.

and Kobe chased Shaq out, raped half the women in Colorado, then paid them out (that's why he plays so hard so that he can make max money). I mean how dare he call himself a team leader he should've been able to at the very least get 15ppg and 8apg from Smush Parker and 16rpg from the interior defensive powerhouse known as Kwame Brown. Replace Jordan / Magic / Drexler T-Mac / Carter / Pierce / JJ Redick / my 12 y-o neighbour with Kobe and I GUARANTEE YOU he will infect the rest of the team with his cancerous attitude and choke away any possibility they will ever have of winning and then subsequently send the team to the bottom of the leage bla bla bla bla....

At least J23F is showing some respect for Kobe's game... Being a Laker fan, I'm actually inclined to agree with him... 91-93' are obviously the best chances, and i'd throw in 94' as well simple because of the supporting cast.

IMO I think they would have a better chance against the Jazz than the Sonics... so I'd say 4-6 (and that's because I'm including full seasons of 94 and 95', which I actually believe MJ would've won AT LEAST 1 of those seasons if he didn't retire.

JordansBulls · Post #18 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:53 pm

2 at maximum. No team is going to win more than 2 titles without a dominant big man other than MJ and it is because MJ had the efficiency of a center. No knock on Kobe, he just wasn't nor is he close to the playoff performer MJ was. The Bulls teams heavily depended on MJ to carry them in the postseason.

Career Playoff Numbers:
MJ: 33.4 ppg / 6.4 rpg / 5.7 apg / 2.1 spg / 0.9 bpg / 49% fg / 33% 3 pt

Kobe: 23.3 ppg / 4.9 rpg / 4.5 apg / 1.3 spg / 0.7 bpg / 44% fg / 33% 3 pt

that is a big difference. From all the playoff series ever that Kobe has had, only 2 playoff series were as good as MJ's average and we expect him to carry a team with no dominant big man to muliple titles? I don't think so and that is just straight telling the truth. Thus 2 is possible.

MT1983 · Post #19 » by **MT1983** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:01 pm

yongaz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

and Kobe chased Shaq out, raped half the women in Colorado, then paid them out (that's why he plays so hard so that he can make max money). I mean how dare he call himself a team leader he should've been able to at the very least get 15ppg and 8apg from Smush Parker and 16rpg from the interior defensive powerhouse known as Kwame Brown. Replace Jordan / Magic / Drexler T-Mac / Carter / Pierce / JJ Redick / my 12 y-o neighbour with Kobe and I GUARANTEE YOU he will infect the rest of the team with his cancerous attitude and choke away any possibility they will ever have of winning and then subsequently send the team to the bottom of the leage bla bla bla bla....

At least J23F is showing some respect for Kobe's game... Being a Laker fan, I'm actually inclined to agree with him... 91-93' are obviously the best chances, and i'd throw in 94' as well simple because of the supporting cast.

IMO I think they would have a better chance against the Jazz than the Sonics... so I'd say 4-6 (and that's because I'm including full seasons of 94 and 95', which I actually believe MJ would've won AT LEAST 1 of those seasons if he didn't retire.

If me saying Kobe couldn't dominate the way Jordan did is showing disrespect to Kobe's game, so be it.

yongaz · Post #20 » by **yongaz** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:11 pm

MT1983 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

If me saying Kobe couldn't dominate the way Jordan did is showing disrespect to Kobe's game, so be it.

Anyone who says that Kobe will not win as many rings as Jordan (including me) is already saying that Kobe couldn't dominate the way Jordan did....only dumb Kobe homers will not acknowledge that.

Jordan is easily the greatest ever (and I don't use easily very often), but to say Kobe will NOT WIN AT ALL given the supporting cast that MJ had? Well if that's not disrespecting (not just Kobe), but the game of basketball, then I don't know what is.

anyway I don't mean to attack you or get personal... you're entitled to your opinion (even if it's totally blinded by pure haterade)