Iguodala vs Roy revisited

[TMACFORMVP]

I'd still take Roy. I think his leadership and slight advantages in terms of scoring (being able to create his own shot), and play-making gives him the advantages overall. It's much closer than some people would say though considering they're similar in all aspects in the game and Iggy is the better defender.

[The_Believer]

Can Roy beat a team that's not a bottom-seeded East team? Cuz top 8 west teams destroy the Blazers every time. Some of you need to stop watching BSPN and actually watch Roy play. I'm not saying there's a big difference, nor that Roy's something to laugh at, but he's not the HOF type player the media was saying he was, and look at his stats since the break and his team's record.

[farzi]

Can Roy beat a team that's not a bottom-seeded East team? Cuz top 8 west teams destroy the Blazers every time. Some of you need to stop watching BSPN and actually watch Roy play. I'm not saying there's a big difference, nor that Roy's something to laugh at, but he's not the HOF type player the media was saying he was, and look at his stats since the break and his team's record.

Western conference teams Portland has beaten
Warriors - twice in two blowouts
Jazz - 3 times
Nuggets - twice
Dallas
Lakers
Hornets twice
Seattle twice
Minny 4 times
Kings
Clippers
memphis

Basically everyone other than phoenix or San Antonio (they play phx next, and played SAS very close earlier)

Other than 1 upset (that didn't get them anywhere) where has Baron led GSW? Where has AI2 led the sixers?

[RMoreau35]

^bacause he lead his team where?

He is the unequivocal leader of a great young Blazers team. Sure they haven't been to the playoffs yet but if you have seen any games then you would understand what a leader he is for this team. He makes clutch shots and takes over when he needs to (especially in the fourth). When he is hitting his shots he is able to create opportunities that the rest of the team feeds off of. This is his second year and the coaches among everyone voted him on to the all star team. They as well as everyone who plays against him knows what a special player and leader he is.

Can Roy beat a team that's not a bottom-seeded East team?

I think its pretty impressive when a team who has really only been around together for two years can put together a 13 game win streak that involved wins over Denver, Golden State, Utah, and New Orleans. Look at it from this perspective: what if the Blazers played in the East? They would certainly have a lot more wins, less losses and be playoff bound. And ask any player on Portland who the leader is and who they would want to take the last shot or manage any game. Its Roy.

Having said that I think both Iggy and Roy are very special players. I think its pretty dumb to just compare stats. We need to look at who is more valuable to the team, look at it as if you were on the respective teams would you want Roy or Iggy to be your teammate and take that last second shot. Honestly I would not mind having either of these players they both are great scorers, game managers, and mean a lot to their teams. At this point in their careers I would give Roy the slight edge for what he has been able to do in the Western Conference and how he is the single biggest contributer to a team that has really turned everything around. I know this is supposed to be who is better individually but we need to look at who is more important to their team as well.

[SabasRevenge!]

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Were you hearing some of the stuff ESPN was saying about Roy? They were saying that he'd be like the next Jordan, he was better than prime Penny, etc??? IMO he won't even be as good as Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili.

No, but if you can link me to the quote on youtube I'd sure like to hear the ESPN guys saying Roy will be the next Jordan...

Wow, that's some serious hate for Roy. Did you watch the game where Nellie pulled the starters halfway through the 1st on their home floor because even Pryzbilla was getting over on GS?

I wonder why the COACHES voted Roy in over Baron? Hmmmm...

The blast about the Blazers not beating teams other than bottom seeded east teams is absolute fiction... unless GS is a bottom seeded east team.

^bacause he lead his team where?

How about substantial increases in team wins over the past two seasons and a winning record in a brutal western conference for the 3rd youngest team ever.

Yeah, 33-34 may be the 7th seed in the East, but 35-32 in the West is much more impressive. Philly is playing very well right now and they deserve to make it, but I don't know how someone could make the argument that 1 game under .500 in the East is more impressive than 3 games over .500 in the West.

As far as team accomplishments and leadership goes, the nod has to go to Roy. He's a soph who defenses are keying on, carrying his team night in and night out. Miller is the MVP of the Philly team and arguably their featured player right now. Thad and Andre have been playing out of their minds. IMO Iggy is a #2 guy at best while Roy can be the man.

[The_Believer]

Can Roy beat a team that's not a bottom-seeded East team? Cuz top 8 west teams destroy the Blazers every time. Some of you need to stop watching BSPN and actually watch Roy play. I'm not saying there's a big difference, nor that Roy's something to laugh at, but he's not the HOF type player the media was saying he was, and look at his stats since the break and his team's record.

Western conference teams Portland has beaten
Warriors - twice in two blowouts
Jazz - 3 times
Nuggets - twice
Dallas
Lakers
Hornets twice
Seattle twice
Minny 4 times
Kings
Clippers
memphis

Basically everyone other than phoenix or San Antonio (they play phx next, and played SAS very close earlier)

Other than 1 upset (that didn't get them anywhere) where has Baron led GSW? Where has AI2 led the sixers?

1. At least Baron has led his teams to the playoffs. Roy is now losing to the real teams, while Baron's surging, as usual.

2. Remember back in 02 East playoffs when Baron destroyed prime TMac (who was better than Kobe and Bron and much, much, much better than Roy and AI2 combined) and dropped back to back TDs in his face to lead the Hornets to the second round? Plus, the year before, he almost went to the ECF. Furthermore, Baron had mediocre teams those years where he led them (Monta and Jax weren't the players they are now, and his Hornets weren't that great of a team). Plus, Baron has led the Warriors to wins over every top 8 west team except for the Jazz, while locking down opposing stars and forming one of the best perimeter D duos with Jax.

3. Roy actually has a negative +/-, and routinely gets lit up. On the other hand, BD and AI2 both have positive/neutral +/-'s and play great defense.

4. Keep in mind that Baron is doing all this without a legit big man, which is incredibly impressive considering that he's in the West.

[Parasight]

I've watched both play a few times. Roy makes less mistakes. But he's also not the physical specimen that Iguodala is. I'd argue to say that Roy is more clutch and a leader. Iguodala has always seemed like a second fiddle to me. That's not to take away from how good he is, just that his maximum effectiveness would come out of being the second scoring option.

Sometimes in games Roy will fade, and Aldridge or Blake/Jack take away shots from him. I mean sometimes he doesn't even attempt half as much as Aldridge does. However, when they need a bucket Roy is usually the one to stop the bleeding.

Iguodala has the tools. But Roy has the skill.

[The_Believer]

[quote="SabasRevenge!"][/quote]

The coaches hate Baron because of his/Nellie's past beef with them, but they don't realize that he has matured since his Hornet days. Every expert had Baron in their AST, some even had him starting. If the game weren't in NO, Baron'd be a lock.

I was overexaggeraing on the "next Jordan" part, but the TNT crew did say that Roy was one of the 3 most complete players in the league, and ESPN was pretty much only talking about him for about 3 months. That is some severe overrating over there.

I'm also curious to know what the Blazers' record against top 8 west teams is, and Roy's stats vs. them.

[candy for lunch]

Ooh, HURR NO RESPECT popping up again. Lovely.

Look up Roy's split stats if you're curious.

[BlzrsExplosion]

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Let's look at Roy's stats.
19-4-5... and not top 30 in any stat. Plus, the Blazers are losing now, since they are playing real teams. If Roy were such a good leader, then why can't Roy beat any of the good teams then?...

And don't even bring Baron in this, he's >>>>>>> Roy. Hell, I'd say Kevin Martin and Tony Parker (injured) > Roy.

Let's take a look...

Roy is averaging 19.8 pts a game. 27th in the league. SG rank: 11th.
5.8 assists. 18th in the league. SG rank: 3rd
A/TO = 3.12. 13th in the league. SG rank 1st.
4.9 rebounds. SG rank 7th.

[Wizenheimer]

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1. At least Baron has led his teams to the playoffs. Roy is now losing to the real teams, while Baron's surging, as usual.

2. Remember back in 02 East playoffs when Baron destroyed prime TMac (who was better than Kobe and Bron and much, much, much better than Roy and AI2 combined) and dropped back to back TDs in his face to lead the Hornets to the second round? Plus, the year before, he almost went to the ECF. Furthermore, Baron had mediocre teams those years where he led them (Monta and Jax weren't the players they are now, and his Hornets weren't that great of a team). Plus, Baron has led the Warriors to wins over every top 8 west team except for the Jazz, while locking down opposing stars and forming one of the best perimeter D duos with Jax.

3. Roy actually has a negative +/-, and routinely gets lit up. On the other hand, BD and AI2 both have positive/neutral +/-'s and play great defense.

4. Keep in mind that Baron is doing all this without a legit big man, which is incredibly impressive considering that he's in the West.

since this is a thread about Roy vs Iguodala, your attempts to hijack it are bad form, but then considering the venom and sour grapes you demonstrated after the all-star selections it's not a surprise.

and +/- stats are some of the most unrevealing stats you can use. They are nearly worthless in most cases and they are certainly worthless without context.

about the only player who has "lit up" roy is Lebron, and I'd say Roy isn't his only victim. Roy has done some lighting-up himself.

Again, I'd say the Roy/Iggy comparison is close with an edge to Roy because of Roy only having about 1/3 the NBA experience as Iggy and still, Roy is putting up numbers comparable to Iggy while facing double-teams and defenses focused on him every game.

[Red Robot]

Roy is the better offensive player. His ballhandling is a notch above Iguodala's and he doesn't depend on teammates to set him up as much. Iguodala's better defensively. He's average, while Roy is maybe average-minus.

[Hussien Fatal]

Both are good players Roy has more tools on offense, but Iguodala is the much better defender IMO, both players are decent in clutch situation, when all said and done i see roy as a 24 5 6.5 player and i see iguodala at 22 7 6, thats just my view but i beleive both players are equal due to that fact that roy has more team success but with much more talent, and iguodala is on a team with less talent, and slightly less team success.

[sabi]

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Were you hearing some of the stuff ESPN was saying about Roy? They were saying that he'd be like the next Jordan, he was better than prime Penny, etc??? IMO he won't even be as good as Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili.

Let's look at Roy's stats.
19-4-5... and not top 30 in any stat. Plus, the Blazers are losing now, since they are playing real teams. If Roy were such a good leader, then why can't Roy beat any of the good teams then?...

And don't even bring Baron in this, he's >>>>>>> Roy. Hell, I'd say Kevin Martin and Tony Parker (injured) > Roy.

you're either a hater or dumb as hell

[sabi]

Can Roy beat a team that's not a bottom-seeded East team? Cuz top 8 west teams destroy the Blazers every time. Some of you need to stop watching BSPN and actually watch Roy play. I'm not saying there's a big difference, nor that Roy's something to laugh at, but he's not the HOF type player the media was saying he was, and look at his stats since the break and his team's record.

Dude shut up, we've been beating top teams in the West all season. Bringing up records isn't very smart either since Philadelphia has a weaker record on the substantially weaker conference. That's why people say he isn't the leader Roy is because he's leading a losing team. In the West the Sixers would be more pathetic than the Clippers and just a little bit better than Seattle.
Blazers have beaten NO twice, Dallas, Denver twice, Utah 3 times, LA, and GS twice. Where do you get your facts (Please Use More Appropriate Word)?

[Jsun947]

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I was overexaggeraing on the "next Jordan" part, but the TNT crew did say that Roy was one of the 3 most complete players in the league, and ESPN was pretty much only talking about him for about 3 months. That is some severe overrating over there.

I'm also curious to know what the Blazers' record against top 8 west teams is, and Roy's stats vs. them.

I'll take you up on that. Portland was supposed to be the 2nd-4th worst team in the west this year if you listen to the "experts" in the preseason. They are the 3rd youngest team of all time and are being lead by two sophmores, both of whom did not play nearly a complete rookie season...

Portland against top 8 teams in the West.
7-2 At home, 1-11 Away (One of which Roy did not play via funeral)
Combined 8-13.
*** 4 of those games have been on a back to back

I have a good feeling those numbers will start to even out considering the remainder of our schedule. We have 5 home games left against those teams and only 2 away games.

Roys Season Average Vs. Against WC Playoff Teams
Minutes 38.1 - 35.6
Points 19.8 - 18.2
Rebounds 4.9 - 4.1
Assist 5.8 - 5.25
Turnovers 1.87 - 1.95

To me the story isn't about how we play against the top 8 teams in the west, its about how poorly we play on the road. Again though, thats everything people expect from the youngest team in the league.

[mojomarc]

I'll probably be accused by Believer of making a homer vote, but I'll take Roy if only because in the fourth quarter the better outside shooting and fewer turnovers are something I think Roy has that would separate the two. From a talent standpoint, they're both close. I think it will become clear, however, that Roy is the better overall player over the next 2-3 years.