Keep: Bogut, CV, Bell, Mason, Sessions

coolhandluke121 · Post #1 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:20 pm

Trade: Redd, Mo (both are fool's gold)
Yi: (duplicates CV, has more value to teams with Chinese fans)
Simmons, Gadz (unload their contracts when trading assets)

For: Expiring deals (Marbury, LaFrentz, Szczerbiak, Snow, Swift,Marshall)
Draft Picks (NJ, NY, Sea., Port.)
Prospects (Frye, Outlaw, Fernandez, Green, Balkman, Lee, Boone)

To: Add talent and financial flexibility for prospective new owner/finally admit that this nucleus ain't gonna cut it

Accept: One more year of extensive rebuilding/player development - although depending on the draft picks they could be better than you think next year, much like the 03-04 Bucks.

Sign: Brand, Marion, Odom, Boozer, or Arenas in 2009 when Bogut and CV are rfa's with modest cap holds.

Note: The trade section is etched in stone, I want all of those guys gone. The next section is just suggested trade partners who might want those players and have something the Bucks want. There are other scenarios as well.

Why keep Bell and Mason? Mason's contract expires at the right time, and Bell is a solid role player who plays two positions, and at a reasonable price

trwi7 · Post #2 » by **trwi7** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:23 pm

Keep Bell? lawlz.

xTitan · Post #3 » by **xTitan** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:23 pm

Alot of changes are coming in the off season as far as managemnent is concerned and things could always change with that....but as of today I would absolutely be shocked if CV and Mo were back next season.

jeremyd236 · Post #4 » by **jeremyd236** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:26 pm

Keep: Redd, Bogut, CV, Sessions, Mason, Bell

Trade: Mo, Yi, Draft Pick, Simmons, Gadz

I don't think anyone realizes how much we could get for Mo, Yi, and our 1st. Use the unbelievable value of those 3 packaged up to get rid of Simmons and Gadz.

You get a real PG in here and a proven 3 man who can be a defensive leader of this team.

trwi7 · Post #5 » by **trwi7** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:27 pm

jeremyd236 wrote:Keep: Redd (for quarters 1-3), Bogut, CV, Sessions, Mason, Bell

Trade: Mo, Yi, Draft Pick, Simmons, Gadz

I don't think anyone realizes how much we could get for Mo, Yi, and our 1st. Use the unbelievable value of those 3 packaged up to get rid of Simmons and Gadz.

You get a real PG in here and a proven 3 man who can be a defensive leader of this team.

Fixed.

REDDzone · Post #6 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:28 pm

I really don't think we have untouchables on this team. Bogut would be the closest thing if it was my choice, but if the price was right and the trade improved the team then I'd part ways.

Just do something.

coolhandluke121 · Post #7 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:34 pm

I think Redd needs to go. He's completely out of control. This is like when every little thing in your life is kind of going wrong, and you keep trying to make small changes, but really when you take a step back and look at the big picture you realize you're in a cancerous marriage which is corrupting every aspect of your existence and you need to make a wholesale change in order to change your life.

mnstinks · Post #8 » by **mnstinks** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:38 pm

Mason sucks relatively speaking. All he can do is jump.

How many sf's in the league can't dribble and shoot?

trwi7 · Post #9 » by **trwi7** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:42 pm

mnstinks wrote:How many sf's in the league can't dribble and shoot?

Captain Erv · Post #10 » by **Captain Erv** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:45 pm

I'll probably get blasted for this, but I would definitely keep Ruffin and possibly Ivey for next year. We need some continuity on this and while Ruffin can't do much, he certainly has a noise for the ball, gets rebounds, and isn't afraid to give a hard foul. Ivey certainly isn't the defensive wiz he is made out to be, but he isn't a bad backup guard.

http://www.last.fm/user/DPF55 · Post #11 » by **Buck You** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:37 pm

Captain Erv 40 wrote:I'll probably get blasted for this, but I would definitely keep Ruffin and possibly Ivey for next year. We need some continuity on this and while Ruffin can't do much, he certainly has a noise for the ball, gets rebounds, and isn't afraid to give a hard foul. Ivey certainly isn't the defensive wiz he is made out to be, but he isn't a bad backup guard.

He's a third stringer at best.

Andrew34r · Post #12 » by **Andrew34r** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:39 pm

Captain Erv 40 wrote:I'll probably get blasted for this, but I would definitely keep Ruffin and possibly Ivey for next year. We need some continuity on this and while Ruffin can't do much, he certainly has a noise for the ball, gets rebounds, and isn't afraid to give a hard foul. Ivey certainly isn't the defensive wiz he is made out to be, but he isn't a bad backup guard.

Im okay with keeping them but only as 11th and 12th guys on the roster. If they get significant playing time next year than that means our team will have not improved very much.

rilamann · Post #13 » by **rilamann** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:54 pm

Other than Bogut,Yi & Sessions I would scrap the whole team,I might keep CV if he would sign for cheap but if he wanted starter money good riddance.

Bell is trash by the way,not a guy I would want on my team.

magpies · Post #14 » by **magpies** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:28 pm

I would keep Yi only so his value increases and then before he runs, trade him
Bogut has to be kept, his size is important in the East and to win against Western Teams who all have at least above average centers
(even though I do believe that he will leave even if changes are made)

Redd, yes he is a good scorer but he has never led this team anywhere and has little leadership qualities he needs a player who is better then him to remind him what his role is
Mo is not sure if he is a SG or PG and he wants to be a SG
CV is playing well and maybe this means his value is up. He is not a defender
Our SF, we have none or are any good.
Our bench is BELOW AVERAGE, Bell for me is a better option then Mo

In the end we can't and will not make the changes we are talking about. Both Mo and Redd won't leave at the same time so if one has to go I want it to be Redd

kebzach · Post #15 » by **kebzach** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:56 pm

trwi7 wrote:Keep Bell? lawlz.

Yes. Why not? Take a look at what he's done for this team since 1-1-2008, take a look at his salary slot for the next 4 years, and ask yourself who you'd get to have that production for that money.

My keep list is:

Bogut
Yi
Bell
Ivey
Ruffin as a 12th man
Sessions

Say goodbye to:

Mason
Simmons
Mo
Redd
Jake the Snake
Danny G
CV
Storey

trwi7 · Post #16 » by **trwi7** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:14 am

kebzach wrote:Yes. Why not? Take a look at what he's done for this team since 1-1-2008, take a look at his salary slot for the next 4 years, and ask yourself who you'd get to have that production for that money.

You can't just take out the 2007 part of this season. Hell, if you took all of our players best months and combined them they might be .500!

But I'll just play this game. You think 10.2 points (43% shooting), 2.7 rebounds, 3.2 assists and .86 steals in 27.6 minutes per game is worth an average of $3.7 million? And these are his best months of the season that I'm getting the stats from. Find somebody in the 2nd round to get his minutes. We could probably get Richard Roby, DeMarcus Nelson or Courtney Lee in the 2nd round and not have a huge production dropoff from Bell.

El Duderino · Post #17 » by **El Duderino** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:07 am

I'm in the get a new starting PG camp, but unlike many here, i'm not ready to say Session is some must keep player. I'd like to see the guy actually play before making that leap.

Comet · Post #18 » by **Comet** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:43 am

We really need to seperate Mo and Redd. They take a lot of shots, and you simply cannot have so many shots come from the backcourt. I say trade Redd, because it looks like this team has outgrown him.

I'm still high on Yi, so don't trade him. Yes, he's had his ups and downs, but it's his rookie season. Of course he's going to have his ups and downs. Just give him some time and Yi will grow.

But one of Yi's weaknesses is that his post defense is underdeveloped. He has the size and athletic ability to be a great post defender, but he's inexperienced and might not even be physical enough (yet).

We should probably trade CV because he's one of the worst defenders in the league. His stock has risen since this offseason because he seems to have bounced-back from his shoulder injury, but having him and Yi together just isn't a good idea, IMO. We should trade CV for an experienced defender who can light a fire under Yi's ass.

I think we should keep Bell. He's a nice reserve player, he just can't succeed under Larry K. Once Kohl figures out that Larry K. isn't the right coach, I'm sure Bell will play better.

Keep Mason? I wouldn't. He is one of the least efficient SFs in the league. He can jump, but that's it. He can't shoot and he can't guard. He might be okay as the backup SF, but he's not a starter at all. Either keep him as a reserve or trade him.

In short, many changes need to be made, but the most urgent needs are to, IMO: trade Redd, trade CV, maybe trade Mason, and draft Nicolas Batum.

gobbler · Post #19 » by **gobbler** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Let's not quibble over guys like Ruffin, Voskuhl, Ivey, etc. Whether these guys are on the team or not isn't going to matter. They're cheap and except Ivey, they don't even play much. If the Bucks get better players, they can cut these guys. As for the rest of the team, it is such a mess that it is hard to even know where to start.

Buck's 3 biggest needs:
1. PG
2. SF who isn't crap
3. Improvement from Yi.
4. Front court defender opposite Bogut.

It is probably best for the Bucks to take the best player available and hope that one is a PG, SF, or PF/C. After that...

I'd like to see Mo traded for a SF who isn't junk. I'd like to see CV traded for a PF/C who is a physical defender, but who is far better than Skinner/Ruffin to rotate in with Yi & Bogut. CV can score and do many things, but Yi at least has a chance to do something on D. I think the best thing is to get a top PG in here. Someone who really runs the offense and plays good D. Probably the draft here, although I foolishly hope Sessions can play. If they draft a PG, then try to get one in a trade.

Redd: If a SG is by far the best player at Milw's draft spot, then I'm fine with trading him.

Gadz & Simmons: I'd love to ditch them and their cap #'s, but they're unlikely to bring much of value in return so I didn't include them above.

InsideOut · Post #20 » by **InsideOut** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:51 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:I think Redd needs to go. He's completely out of control. This is like when every little thing in your life is kind of going wrong, and you keep trying to make small changes, but really when you take a step back and look at the big picture you realize you're in a cancerous marriage which is corrupting every aspect of your existence and you need to make a wholesale change in order to change your life.

I agree but I fear it's next to impossible. Think back to all the trade rumors we've had this past year. The deal with the Suns, Heat, Knicks... I can't recall Redd being mentioned in any of them. His contract is poison. A young rebuilding team won't want him and a contender can't afford him. I just can't see anyone wanting to add an overpaid choker to their team. Our only hope is someone would be willing to take a chance on him and they'd only give up expirings and crap to get him. I'd still do it. I read Philly is 15-4 over their last 19 games and are the 6th seed. That Iverson deal is looking better every day for them. As Detroit proved twice, you can move your best player and get better quick. Especially when that best player hasn't taken the team anywhere. Plan on being stuck with Redd for at least another two seasons. Then we might be able to move him as an expiring.