Playoff Rotation: Are we too deep?

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:47 am

Great game on Sunday but I couldn't help but looking at Affalo and Amir getting little to no run. And wondering what happens when Lindsey comes back? We really have too many guys for not enough minutes. And now that Ratliff looks for real, it puts even more of a squeeze on the front line.

What is your playoff rotation look like?

srt4b · Post #2 » by **srt4b** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:07 am

Billups40
Rip40
Tay40
Antonio30
Sheed35

Stuckey16 (Hunter in some games)
Jarvis15
Max14
Ratliff10

legacyinthemakin89c · Post #3 » by **legacyinthemakin89c** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:10 am

Well it all depends on who we play: If the playoffs started today

Against Philly:
Billups(35)/Stuckey(13)/Hunter(Spot)
Hamilton(38)/Afflalo(10)/Stuckey(Spot)
Prince(38)/Hayes(10)
McDyess(30)/Maxiell(18)/Amir(Spot)
Wallace(35)/Ratliff(13)/Amir(Spot)

Against Magic:
Billups(38)/Stuckey(10)/Hunter(Spot)
Hamilton(35)/Afflalo(10)/Stuckey(3)
Prince(35)/Hayes(13)
McDyess(25)/Maxiell(15)/Wallace(8)
Wallace(30)/Ratliff(18)/Amir(Spot)

Against Boston:
Billups(38)/Hunter(10)/Stuckey(Spot)
Hamilton(38)/Stuckey(10)/Afflalo(Spot)
Prince(38)/Hayes(10)
McDyess(30)/Maxiell(18)/Amir(Spot)
Wallace(38)/Ratliff(10)/Amir(Spot)

srt4b · Post #4 » by **srt4b** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:14 am

Walt vs Aaron for the 12th man. I can't see Aaron getting 10 a game in the playoffs unless we are up big in our 1st 2 home games and the bench plays big minutes.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #5 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:18 am

Hunter should get more time if the Pistons get deeper into the playoffs. He is such a disruptive defensive presence

HeroicKennedy · Post #6 » by **HeroicKennedy** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:19 am

Eh, I'd much rather have too much depth than not enough. Allows to weigh our options next year.

I don't really have a playoff rotation, just want to show off my new sig.

Post #7 » by **theBigLip** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:28 am

Billups (38) Stuckey (5) Hunter (5)
Rip (38) Stuckey (10)
Tay (38) Hayes (10)
Dice (28) Sheed (5) Max (15)
Sheed (33) Ratliff (15)

So basically, I think it will be our core, with Stuckey, Max and Ratliff each getting 15, Hayes getting 10, Hunter getting 5 (dependant on the situation) and Affalo and Amir getting great seats to watch the playoff run. The first round should be won easily, so some of the bench may get more minutes, but from the 2nd round and on, those minutes will disappear.

Hunter · Post #8 » by **Hunter** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:07 am

I really don't want to play more than 8 or 9 guys in the post-season. It's silly to give 5 minutes here or there to multiple players.

I think ideally you have about 3 bench guys who all log around 15-20 minutes. Thats enough time for guys to get into some sort of flow within the game. Then if you need to bring in somebody else for 5-8 minutes due to foul trouble or a particular matchup that's fine, but not at the expense of the normal bench players minutes.

Since it appears Ratliff will be getting some minutes at C Flip is gonna have to commit to either Maxiell or Amir and it looks like Amir will be the odd man out. Hopefully Lindsey remains glued to the bench as well, though.

GJense4181 · Post #9 » by **GJense4181** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:18 am

I believe that Saunders is going with:
Billups/Stuckey
Hamilton/Stuckey
Prince/Hayes
McDyess/Hayes
Wallace/Ratliff
with 1) Maxiell 2) Dixon 3) Johnson 4) Hunter 5) Afflalo 6) Hermann 7) Samb as the *deep* reserves.

Post #10 » by **Snakebites** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:46 am

IMO the concern here isnt if we have too many guys, its whether we have 3 or four guys we can consistently rely on to produce in 15-20 minutes per night in playoff level games.

Im not sure we have that here, as much of our bench is green. IMO Maxiell should be in the playoff rotation, along with Ratliff, Hayes (due to lack of other options), and Stuckey. Hunter should be used situationally or if Stuckey looks lost out there.

Amir should get more burn as the season closes, because he's likely on the outside looking in once the playoffs start.

Post #11 » by **theBigLip** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:03 am

Hunter wrote:I really don't want to play more than 8 or 9 guys in the post-season. It's silly to give 5 minutes here or there to multiple players.

I think ideally you have about 3 bench guys who all log around 15-20 minutes. Thats enough time for guys to get into some sort of flow within the game. Then if you need to bring in somebody else for 5-8 minutes due to foul trouble or a particular matchup that's fine, but not at the expense of the normal bench players minutes.

Since it appears Ratliff will be getting some minutes at C Flip is gonna have to commit to either Maxiell or Amir and it looks like Amir will be the odd man out. Hopefully Lindsey remains glued to the bench as well, though.

That sounds about right, although it looks like we have 4 bench guys that will be part of the rotation - Stuckey, Hayes, Maxiell, and Ratliff. They all bring something different and I can't imagine a game without all of them playing (unless Tay plays for 48 minutes - which is possible). Lindsey will also be on the roster and called on for his usual spot role if needed.

srt4b · Post #12 » by **srt4b** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:04 am

I think the OP was referring to the fact that our bench has 5-6 guys that are around the same talent level (medium) as opposed to some playoff benches that have 2-3 better guys and the other 2-3 guys are nbdl caliber talent.

Hunter · Post #13 » by **Hunter** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:08 am

Pistons#1 wrote:IMO the concern here isnt if we have too many guys, its whether we have 3 or four guys we can consistently rely on to produce in 15-20 minutes per night in playoff level games.

Im not sure we have that here, as much of our bench is green. IMO Maxiell should be in the playoff rotation, along with Ratliff, Hayes (due to lack of other options), and Stuckey. Hunter should be used situationally or if Stuckey looks lost out there.

Amir should get more burn as the season closes, because he's likely on the outside looking in once the playoffs start.

I think I'd agree with that. You have to hope that Stuckey finds his playoff legs in the first round and that Hayes is hitting.

There are positive and negatives to being a balanced team as opposed to a superstar dominated one. If you rely on balance then you're often only as strong as the weakest link. It really magnifies and exacerbates every flaw in your bench when they don't play up to par because they are filling such a vital role. And as you say; they are still very green.

Thats why as much as it pains me I won't be surprised if we wind up playing Lindsey/Dixon/Hayes/Maxiell/Theo. But I really hope it doesn't come to that.

nasty daddy · Post #14 » by **nasty daddy** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:06 am

Playoff rotations will change from game to game for each series in the playoffs.

Uncle Mxy · Post #15 » by **Uncle Mxy** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:19 am

Hunter wrote:I really don't want to play more than 8 or 9 guys in the post-season. It's silly to give 5 minutes here or there to multiple players.

Not if you're up by 30-40 points. Think big... THINK HUGE!!! I want the 12th man getting significant minutes, so when the despondent losers decide to take a cheap shot, we don't have a starter on the court.

I'll "settle" for a 9-man rotation.

Joe Berry · Post #16 » by **Joe Berry** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:14 pm

nasty daddy wrote:Playoff rotations will change from game to game for each series in the playoffs.

thats BS in my opinion, we will play the same guys as usual, Theo -Max-Hayes- Stuckey, maybe some Hunter, the rest will get DNPs...and i am still not convinced Stuckey will really see regular minutes off the bench, Lindsey might get the edge here...

we might have deep depth, if you know what i mean, but no really high quality depth, at least not at the perimeter, i dont trust any of the perimeter guys (Hayes, Stuckey, Hunter) to score constantly in limited minutes.

it will be really interesting to see how many minutes our bench gets and what they can actually produce this year in the playoffs.

GJense4181 · Post #17 » by **GJense4181** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:21 pm

nasty daddy wrote:Playoff rotations will change from game to game for each series in the playoffs.

How do you know, nasty? Are you regurgitating playoff rules, and saying that yes, playoff rosters aren't set in stone and we can make adjustments mid-post-season and mid-series? Or are you predicting that Flip Saunders will suddenly decide to become flexible and use ALL of the talent on this roster, that goes 14 deep?

I'm telling you: Billups/Stuckey or Hunter, Hamilton/Stuckey or Hunter, Prince/Hayes, McDyess/Maxiell, Wallace/Ratliff. 9-man rotation.

This is my player hierarchy:
Billups/Stuckey/Dixon/Hunter
Hamilton/Stuckey/Afflalo/Dixon
Prince/Hamilton/Hermann/Hayes
McDyess/Maxiell/Johnson/Hermann
Wallace/Ratliff/McDyess/Maxiell

Which would lead me to believe the rotation should be:
Billups/Stuckey/Dixon
Hamilton/Afflalo/Dixon
Prince/Hermann/Afflalo
McDyess/Maxiell/Johnson
Wallace/Ratliff/Johnson
Alas, Hunter and Hayes will be integral parts of the rotation every series, and probably every game.

HeroicKennedy · Post #18 » by **HeroicKennedy** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:18 pm

Actually, I like a bench of Hunter/Stuckey/Hayes/Maxiell/Ratliff.

I think Ratliff gives us a lot of what Amir did (though I think Amir is slightly better), but he has the size advantage, so I'd take him over Amir come playoff time.

Maxiell is out energy guy. He does a lot of the little things that really helps our depth.

Hayes, well, in all honesty, only needs to knocked down his shots consistently in at least 4 games of the entire series for us to win. That, and eat some of Tayshaun's minutes so it isn't 40-42 minutes per game for him.

Stuckey could be that instant offense we need at times from our bench. He isn't quite consistent, but he could be a key boost.

Hunter in spot minutes to slow down the opposing guards. I could see him and Stuckey one the floor together, with Stuckey bringing up the ball and Hunter working on defense.

I actually like that rotation. Certainly better than last years Hunter/McDyess and throwing minutes at Murray/Delfino.

Liqourish · Post #19 » by **Liqourish** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:29 pm

I might be in the minority here, but I think having Jarvis play at the 2 with Tayshaun at the 3 would be a good playoff option. The only concern is 3 backup gaurds and really no relief to Tay.

C. Billups/R. Stuckey/L. Hunter
R. Hamilton/R. Stuckey/J. Hayes
T. Prince/J. Hayes
A. McDyess/J. Maxiell
R. Wallace/T. Ratliff

Of course the 6 out of 7 games where Arvis shows up, we're screwed. :banghead:

Afflalo and Amir are done as long as Flip has players that he can use as an excuse not to play them. :roll:

RTM · Post #20 » by **RTM** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:11 pm

We definitely aren't too deep. I see us running a 9 man lineup of:

Billups/Stuckey
Rip/Stuckey
Tay/Hayes
McDyess/Max
Wallace/Ratliff

The only player I expect to get spot minutes in the normal rotation aside from those mentioned about is Hunter.

That being said, I'm fairly happy with that as our playoff rotation.