All Front Office Talk: Bird Walsh Not Sure to Return (Star)

PacerGuy · Post #1 » by **PacerGuy** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:07 pm

**Note: Poll was erased in error. Please re-vote**

With all the discussion about the future of Donnie Walsh, Larry Bird, and the Simon's of late, I would be interested in collecting the boards insight into what you feel should be done this off-season.

I am torn myself.
I will be honest, I am kinda leaning to the 100% clean house concept. I like both Larry & Donnie, but I think it will be hard to change perception and public opinion w/ these two.
Donnie is beloved, no doubt, but some of the decisions have been his & he is not getting any younger. To "re-invest" in Donnie for the rebuild we need does not seem wise.
Larry has his fans, but maybe more critics then his legend can withstand. I hate for him to go out like this, but I see him as a target for many who look at the Pacers and their troubles coinsiding w/ his arrival. I'm not sure he can ever rid himself of that. Besides, he has not had any real positive impact on talent evaluation, style of play (or players), free-agents, support & perception by our fans, and most importantly, our record. He does not have much in his corner to support his case.
Here is my "Out-of-Left-Field" (& Unlikely) Dream :pray:

Plan:
-Release all 3 of Walsh/ Bird/ O'Brien. I hate to say this, bit this sends a message to the fan & the players that things will never be the same again, & the owners are serious about getting the Pacers back to being a "Model Franchise" again!
-Hire Kiki Vanderway as GM. He is the best qualified available GM out there! He has successful history of rebuilding teams.
-Hire Mack Jackson as coach w/ Larry Brown as his "mentor"/ assistant. I think Mark would be awesome, but would need to learn the job of being a coach. Especially for a team likely looking to draft a PG for the future, I think Mark would be excellent. Larry wants back on the bench, but age & health are issues. This allows him to go at a different pace, & do what he moves most - Teach the game of Basketball. Larry & Mark both have ties w/ the Simon's. Mark is based on high values & teamwork (& his close relationship to one Reggie Miller doesn't hurt! :wink:

), while Larry is very respected by everyone in the game.
-
**Note: Poll was erased in error. Please re-vote**

spauldingball. · Post #2 » by **spauldingball.** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:42 pm

anything that lets larry go.. i'm all for. I would like to deep walsh though

CircleCitysportsfan · Post #3 » by **CircleCitysportsfan** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:50 am

I would hate for Donnie to end his time here like this. I think it's time to just start all over, get some new blood and a fresh new attitude.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #4 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:21 am

Wheres the option for keeping Larry and Donnie and just releasing Obie?

CircleCitysportsfan · Post #5 » by **CircleCitysportsfan** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:37 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:Wheres the option for keeping Larry and Donnie and just releasing Obie?

Why would you want to do that? Why do we need two GM's? Either Donnie can go back to doing it full time or just let them both go.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #6 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:46 am

CircleCitysportsfan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Why would you want to do that? Why do we need two GM's? Either Donnie can go back to doing it full time or just let them both go.

Donnie and Larry have done a good job. Its the injuries and the coach that are the problems.

Donnie kept this team in the playoffs for 10 years straight, thats insane, we rebuild after going to the finals without falling out of the playoffs. No reason for Donnie to go. As for Bird, people can put the blame on him all they want, but nothing that has happened has been his fault. There wasn't much he could do after all the crap Artest and Jackson pulled. Honestly, we got pretty good deals in both considering all the baggage they had. We got Murphy and Dunleavy, both who are playing great, and Ike, who has played great in the minutes he has gotten, the coach just doesn't like him.

Larry has made great draft picks since taking over, his only real mistake was James White. Can't say anything about Stanko or Lorbek yet because we haven't seen them, they could turn out to be nice role players in the future. Honestly, it has been all the players screwing it up for him, yes he manages those players, but no one knew Artest would punch fans and request trades every 3 games. All things considered he has been forced to manage with the situations, he hasn't had a chance to take over them yet. This off-season will be the first chance he had to grab the bull by the horns, if he doesn't get anything done, then I agree he needs to go, but he has had to fix the mistakes of the players, he hasn't had the chance to do much else yet, this off-season is that chance. I think he'll do a good job.

Shooter12 · Post #7 » by **Shooter12** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:52 am

Get rid of them all. We need new blood everywhere, especially GM. I think we need to trade everyone on our team other than the players who love the team like Foster, Dunleavy, Diener, Granger, Murphy, and maybe even Flip. Either way, only one of Rush or Flip are gonna stay most likely, and we need rid of the log jam at SG/SF. Look at trading Quis and Ike for draft picks or a solid player, maybe even someone like Kirk Hinrich, but that would cost a little more considering he is only this bad because of Chicago's terrible offense and lack of coaching. Draft OJ Mayo ( :pray:

) and hand him the keys. The guy is a superstar, and I can't see him letting himself not succeed. I swear, he will be Bryant V2. Regardless of his height, that doesn't matter. Wade isn't even 6'4 like he is listed i'd bet. Gordon does not have the star power that Mayo has. Gordon reminds me of a more conservitive, shorter Michael Redd. Redd was a superstar defensively in college according to commentators when I was watching a game, and Gordon is supposedly a solid defender. I doubt that, and he doesn't have the versitility scoring wise that Mayo has. Mayo can do anything, fearless driving, a great shooter, and according to you guys a great passer. We also need to trade JO at all costs, and try to get a decent pick to get a decent player in the draft. Hopefully around the outside of the lottery, where teams in the west will be looking to trade their picks to contend now (like the Nuggets, or the Warriors (could make a good trading partner). Lets just start over with young players. Granger and Dunleavy are going to keep getting better and gelling as our shooting guard small forward combo.

Post #8 » by **mizzoupacers** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:11 pm

I don't blame Walsh or Bird for the Pacers' demise. They (or maybe it was just Walsh) took risks, the kind you have to take to reach the top in the NBA--no guts, no glory.

It didn't work out. It's going to take awhile to turn things back around. When you gamble, sometimes you lose. End of story.

That said, if there is someone better out there to run our team, go get him/her.

cdash · Post #9 » by **cdash** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:28 pm

I read a story on ESPN.com this morning from the Star that quotes Bird as saying he is not sure he will return. I love the Simons being proactive here. Clean house, minus Walsh, even though I suspect he will take the Knicks job either way. They have to make a smart if they do get rid of Bird, but I like the Larry Legend is scurred.

Post #10 » by **Grang33r** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:22 pm

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... ter-sports

That's the actual article you're referring to.

Post #11 » by **count55** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:38 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:I don't blame Walsh or Bird for the Pacers' demise. They (or maybe it was just Walsh) took risks, the kind you have to take to reach the top in the NBA--no guts, no glory.

It didn't work out. It's going to take awhile to turn things back around. When you gamble, sometimes you lose. End of story.

That said, if there is someone better out there to run our team, go get him/her.

We've now entered the "easier said than done" portion of the program.

Post #12 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:40 pm

I'm so sorry. I merged the two like topics and apparently merged the wrong one into the other one and accidentally lost the poll that PG had put up. Maybe you could edit your original post and put it back in there PG? My bad guys.

greenway84 · Post #13 » by **greenway84** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:50 pm

Bucks Join Knicks In Pursuit Of Walsh
March 19, 2008 - 9:58 am
The New York Daily News -
The Knicks aren't the only team interested in stealing executive Donnie Walsh away from the Pacers, according to the New York Daily News.

Walsh has had discussions with the Bucks, who would like to replace general manager Larry Harris. It's also rumored that the Hawks may have reached out to Walsh as well.

Link
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/51502/20080319/bucks_join_knicks_in_pursuit_of_walsh/

Post #14 » by **mizzoupacers** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:57 pm

Lol, can we at least get a draft pick for Donnie? I know in the NFL they have to give up draft picks for head coaches sometimes.

bballpacen · Post #15 » by **bballpacen** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:10 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:Lol, can we at least get a draft pick for Donnie? I know in the NFL they have to give up draft picks for head coaches sometimes.

If that would be the case, then lets hope that he goes to NY...

Post #16 » by **Grang33r** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:50 pm

Nah, Pacers wouldn't get anything in return.

I think this may be the end of the Donnie Walsh era in Indianapolis. The guy is in talks with the Bucks and the Knicks. There's obviously somekind of arguing going on. My guess is like the article few days ago said, Simon's told Walsh to fire Bird, he refused, got on Simon's bad side, now Walsh feels he was betrayed and wants to go elsewhere, and Simon's will fire Bird themselfs once the season is over.

Could this all get worse before it gets better?

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #17 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:48 pm

I just want to fire Obie. Keep Walsh and Bird.

old school pacer fan · Post #18 » by **old school pacer fan** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:49 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:Lol, can we at least get a draft pick for Donnie? I know in the NFL they have to give up draft picks for head coaches sometimes.

If Donnie is under contract, maybe. But it seems to me I heard something about Donnie and the Simons just shaking hands because they respect each other so much.
N-E way it would be a shame to lose Donnie over him not wanting to get rid of Bird.

Bird has ###### this team up bigtime and should have been shown the door

celtspacers · Post #19 » by **celtspacers** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:16 pm

Clean house.. Hire REGGIE as GM and Mark Jackson as coach.

Post #20 » by **PR07** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Walsh is a tremendous GM, make no mistake about it. He's done a lot of great things for this organization during his tenure here. However, I think it's time for a fresh face in the front office.

I also am not in the camp that blames all of this mess on Bird. While it's true, he's had a big role in it...I think the wheels of this awful Pacers' roller-coaster started long before he was given full reigns of the organization. Bird has made some foolish moves, but he's also made some good moves too. I have a "mixed bag" of feelings towards him, and I also don't think he's the guy that's going to lead us out of this mess.

Whether O'Brien stays or goes, I don't think it really matters in the short-term. No coach is going to win that many games with this bunch, and until we get a better core of players...it doesn't really matter who calls the shots on the sidelines. I'm fine with having O'Brien stick around for another 2-3 seasons until that right franchise caliber coach comes along.