Devin Harris vs. Rajon Rondo

[T-Spot]

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ok...and your excuse for harris not averaging 10 assists per game playing with jason terry, josh howard, and dirk nowitzki is???

Because neither Dirk, Howard, or Terry [who Harris does not play with, is he not the back up point guard?] are the best catch and shoot players in the league, nor are they one of the best interior big men in the league.

And Harris still averaged one more assist per game than Rondo.

TJ Ford and Rondo are similar.

1. Both are not 3-point shooters
2. Both are quick and attack the basket before looking to shoot.
3. Rondo and TJ are comparable rebounders [look at the year he played with the Bucks, he got more boards than Rondo does now, and last year when he was healthy, he was also a 3-4 rebound player, much like Rondo. What is all this bullcrap out going into the tree's to rebound, you're acting like he's Wilt on the boards.
4. Ford is the better defender. Rondo's defense is vastly overrated. Coming from a man that has seen both Jose Calderon and TJ Ford abuse Rondo like they were MJ.
5. I find your comment about Ford being a stick figure and made of glass crude as hell. Are we making fun of everyone who has a serious medical condition? TJ is not afraid to attack the rim against men twice his size, respect that and shut up.
6. TJ and Rondo like to use their dribble a lot.
7. Devin Harris pretty much fits into all the comparisons [quick, attack the rim, not much of a shooter, likes the dribble]

Now I want you to show me to name the differences between them before saying "its not even close" without any supporting evidence.

[buckner1976]

[quote="T-Spot"][/quote]

uhh dirks not a good catch n shoot guy?? you're kidding me?? thats a joke right?? dirk is awesome off the catch. jt is a solid shooter as well. these guys can score on this team. and at the beginning of the season harris and terry were starting in the same backcourt and even when they didnt they played together in the backcourt a lot. dont sit here and act like harris doesnt have guys that can put the ball in the basket every bit as good as bostons big 3. so what ford has had good games against rondo. that doesnt mean that rondo isnt a better defender than FORD. note i never said rondo was all-nba. i said hes better defensively than ford and ford sucks on d. i will concede they do both look for the drive more than the shot. but the idea that rondo is somehow a "lite" version of decent pg with his own set of flaws is silly. and if you wanna get your tampon all wound about tj ford being made of glass you do that. the kid is frail and he gets injured often. rando has shown no such proclivities and hes more solidly built. and while rondo is by no stretch wilt(where the hell did that come from) all i said is that rondo through his career has shown an adeptness at rebounding going back to his college days where he once had 19 rebs in a game. ford on the other hand would get crushed in there. sure harris maybe SLIGHTLY better but its closer than people think and this is rondo's 1st full year starting at pg. stay tuned.

[OhMyBosh]

Both aren't good point guards, but that doesn't mean they are bad players though. Neither have playmaking abilities that actually improve their teammates in anyway.

And how does playing with 3 superstars make you worse? Look at Sasha Vujacic. If he wasn't playing with Kobe, Lamar, or Gasol, he'd be useless on the court. Playing with 3 all stars would naturally hide most of your weaknesses, not expose it to the world.

Right now, I'll take Harris. I'll probably take him in the future too. Harris is like a taller and stronger TJ in my mind. Rondo doesn't compare with TJ except for quickness. Rondo can't create his own shot and he lacks severely in the passing department compared to TJ.

Rondo is young. People aren't saying he'll be terrible in his career. He will get better eventually.

[PaKwAn]

Harris

[T-Spot]

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uhh dirks not a good catch n shoot guy?? you're kidding me?? thats a joke right?? dirk is awesome off the catch.

Ray Allen > Dirk

At the catch and shoot.

I'm not defending Harris' lack of assists, but Harris does get more assists than Rondo with a weaker "Big 2"


jt is a solid shooter as well. these guys can score on this team. and at the beginning of the season harris and terry were starting in the same backcourt and even when they didnt they played together in the backcourt a lot. dont sit here and act like harris doesnt have guys that can put the ball in the basket every bit as good as bostons big 3.

Boston's big 3 is better, and yet Harris nets more assists. If you are going to tell me that Dirk or Terry is better at Ray Allen in the catch and shoot, [and lets not even mention Garnett and the interior scoring he brings] you are whack.

so what ford has had good games against rondo. that doesnt mean that rondo isnt a better defender than FORD. note i never said rondo was all-nba. i said hes better defensively than ford and ford sucks on d.

[Wrongdy, wrong. Not only did Ford burn Rondo, Calderon [who is a completely different player] also played circles around Rondo. Ever heard of Billups? Andre Miller? Even Derek Fisher? [I'm sure the usual suspects of Paul, Deron, Nash ect are in this list] All of them hit their season averages or higher against Boston. ]

Overrated defender, I'll say it again.

When Ford is healthy he is a better defender.]

i will concede they do both look for the drive more than the shot. but the idea that rondo is somehow a "lite" version of decent pg with his own set of flaws is silly.

[Ford is a better version of what Rondo does. Therefor TJ Ford Lite. Not that hard]

and if you wanna get your tampon all wound about tj ford being made of glass you do that. the kid is frail and he gets injured often.

[I'm sure having a serious medical condition has nothing to do with it. Despite that he still takes contact and attacks against bigger players, which is what makes him much more impressive than Rondo. Its not his fault he has a condition that could paralyze him if he is not careful]

rando has shown no such proclivities and hes more solidly built. and while rondo is by no stretch wilt(where the hell did that come from) all i said is that rondo through his career has shown an adeptness at rebounding going back to his college days where he once had 19 rebs in a game. ford on the other hand would get crushed in there.

[Did you not read the stats I typed? TJ averaged more rebounds than Rondo has now in his last season with the Bucks and was a 3-4 rebound guy in Toronto [which is at the level that Rondo is right now]. You have no grasp on reality, and must think Rondo is Wilt [that's where Wilt came from]

sure harris maybe SLIGHTLY better but its closer than people think and this is rondo's 1st full year starting at pg. stay tuned.

[No, its not closer than people think. Its a big seperation. Mind you Harris is putting up the same stat line in New Jersey, and I'd like to see Rondo even try to come close to his level of production without the Big Three.]

Rondo doesn't compare with TJ....quickness...can't create shot...not on same passing level

That is why I called him TJ Ford lite.

I think Rondo is a decent player, but nothing better than that in my opinion.

[some_rand]

Harris, i thought rondo would be better this season hes dissapointed me a bit. I was expecting around 13/6/6/2.5 steals from him coming into the season

[buckner1976]

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That is why I called him TJ Ford lite.

I think Rondo is a decent player, but nothing better than that in my opinion.

we'll have to agree to disagree. i do think harris is good but hes older and been in the league longer. i should hope hed be better. nothing harris does is overwhelmingly better than rondo...except for maybe making free throws. and sorry. youre not selling me on jason terry, dirk and josh howard not being able to make a jumpshot. try selling that to mavs fans. dirks one of the best spot up perimeter shooters in the league. howards fg% is always pretty high and hes an excellent finisher. jt is clutch in the 4th. sorry. try again. yeah bostons big 3 is better and their offense is not designed around the pg dominating the ball either. torontos offense is designed around the pg dominating the ball. its not rocket science here. as for defense you said overrated defender. we get it. tj ford had a nice game against him. big deal. again, the point is not whether rondo is overrated. the point is whether hes better than ford and he is who is a sieve defensively. quit hiding behind how you think rondo is rated nationally. offensively ford is better right now...and again he SHOULD be. this is basically rondos rookie season after roughly 35 games as a starter last year on a team that tanked down the stretch. i should HOPE ford is better at this point. comparatively speaking rondo is way ahead of their curve after basically 1 season and hes gonna be light years better than ford when hes his age. and hes not far off already. sorry...sell it to someone else.

[T-Spot]

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we'll have to agree to disagree. i do think harris is good but hes older and been in the league longer. i should hope hed be better. nothing harris does is overwhelmingly better than rondo...except for maybe making free throws. and sorry. youre not selling me on jason terry, dirk and josh howard not being able to make a jumpshot.

[When did I say that? I said Ray Allen is a better catch and shoot player than Dirk or Terry. Dirk and Terry are great shooters, but they often create for themselves [especially Terry.]]

try selling that to mavs fans. dirks one of the best spot up perimeter shooters in the league. howards fg% is always pretty high and hes an excellent finisher.

[Why do you think I specified only Ray Allen and KG but not Paul Pierce? The same reason why your "He has Howard" argument is moot. Most of their shots are not of the assisted variety. So I dunno why you keep peddling Howard when I don't talk about Pierce. Sell that to someone else]

jt is clutch in the 4th. sorry. try again. yeah bostons big 3 is better and their offense is not designed around the pg dominating the ball either.

[Their offense is not designed for a decent point guard dominating the ball, because they have better options than a decent point guard. Toronto's offense has more point guards dominating the ball because their point guards are good/great. You make use of what you have, and if Rondo was good/great, he'd be used more.]

torontos offense is designed around the pg dominating the ball. its not rocket science here. as for defense you said overrated defender. we get it. tj ford had a nice game against him. big deal. again, the point is not whether rondo is overrated. the point is whether hes better than ford and he is who is a sieve defensively.

[If I'd have to rate Rondo and Ford defensively, I'd say they are pretty much equal, [and that's not saying much]. I'd like you to back you "FORDSZ A SEIVE" statement with some actually proof, like I did when I said Rondo is nothing special on D. Just because I like to say it, Rondo is vastly overrated on D.]

quit hiding behind how you think rondo is rated nationally. offensively ford is better right now...and again he SHOULD be. this is basically rondos rookie season after roughly 35 games as a starter last year on a team that tanked down the stretch. i should HOPE ford is better at this point. comparatively speaking rondo is way ahead of their curve after basically 1 season and hes gonna be light years better than ford when hes his age. and hes not far off already. sorry...sell it to someone else.

[1. Ford was healthy last season so I'll give you last season's numbers, shall I? 14 ppg, 8 apg, 44%FG, in 29-30ish mins [that was his 3rd season in the league [second full season]. Rondo is playing more min's this year [31ish] than Ford was playing in that season.

You whine about Rondo's lack of experience? After only playing half of an NBA season in his rookie year [50ish games], he would miss 1 and a half years due to a serious [and reoccuring] medical situation. His first year back from that, he got 12 ppg, 6.8 apg, 4.3 rpg on 42%FG. So Ford in his second season [after missing 1 and a half seasons due to injury] is better than Rondo is now. Way ahead of the curve? More like way behind.

Ford is better on offense, and similar on defense. Ford is just flat out better. And to your "LOL HE WILL BE LIGHT YEARZ BETTA THAN FORD WHEN HE IZ SAME AGE" is moot. I can say, "BARGNANI WILL BE LIGHT YEARZ BETTER THAN DIRK WHEN HE THE SAME AGE" too. Its useless.]

He is pretty much TJ Ford lite. I dunno why you're so upset, its a compliment really.

[buckner1976]

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He is pretty much TJ Ford lite. I dunno why you're so upset, its a compliment really.

actually im not upset and i apologize if i gave off the impression i was. and i have no beef with ford...loved him comin out of high school and at texas. my debate is just over harris thats all, not ford. and i like harris mind you im just waiting to be really impressed by the kid. harris may be a little better now but beyond a more consistent shot...i dunno.