"KG Tanked It" -Taylor

theGreatRC · Post #41 » by **theGreatRC** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:07 am

Why don't you ask Flip Saunders why he didn't give him the starting role.

casey · Post #42 » by **casey** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:13 am

theGreatRC wrote:Why don't you ask Flip Saunders why he didn't give him the starting role.

I won't ask him because I already know the answer, he thought Brandon was a better player. Which is why if the Wolves were actually just trying to make KG happy rather than make the team better they would've traded Brandon to open that spot for Billups. Pretty sure I said this exact thing in my last post, you probably just missed it.

tanat-0s · Post #43 » by **tanat-0s** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:13 am

Cassell and KG were best friends.
Didn't stop the Wolves from trading Sam.
KG didn't like Wally.
And yet World spent years in Minnesota.

Blame the FO for their mistakes, not KG.

SSUBluesman · Post #44 » by **SSUBluesman** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:18 am

MN Die Hard wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wow I certainly didnt see that in Taylor's comments. You have a vivid imagination, I'll give you that.

Is it as vivid as your claim about Taylor "saving the team"? Because, I've got to tell you, I'm still laughing over that one, especially when you prefaced it with "For those of you to young to remember". Classic.

Because you seem more up to date on KG's transgressions than Taylor's (big surprise) let me help you out a bit: The cancer bit was something Taylor brought up as far as KG's personal relationships undermining the team's chemistry and play. Secondly, the comments are made under the idea that the team did not make the decision to tank, but rather KG did while everyone else was concerned with winning. Don't let nagging questions like "Why then was Madsen chucking 3's" snap you out of your alternate reality.

Pretty ironic comment considering all the tears being shed over Taylor's comments.

WOW!!! Imagine THAT!!! People upset about comments made in a thread about said comments...that's sooooo the same thing as you crying about unrelated events (Bos/Min game) that happened months ago.

SonicYouth34 · Post #45 » by **SonicYouth34** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:26 am

Taylor is a real D-bag

the_bruce · Post #46 » by **the_bruce** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:40 am

Taylor is a dick. He should issue a formal apology imo.

As for Garnett tanking? Meh at that point in the season its fairly pointless to risk injury or further injuring your franchise player.

shrink · Post #47 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:11 pm

So what are you guys argueing?

1. That Garnett didn't tank? He obviously didn't play the last five games of the season -- are you saying it was because he wasn't phyiscally able to play them?

2. OR that KG DID tank, and Taylor had no right to say anything about it?

Post #48 » by **C.lupus** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:19 pm

Stupid, classless, pointless, and unnecessary move by Taylor. Even if it is true, what message did he just send to his current players and any future free agents that he may want to sign? A grown man needs to know when it is in his own best interest to keep his mouth shut.

tanat-0s wrote:You Minny fans disqust me, at least people in Milwaukee have enough pride to call out the owner when he messes up.

Nice. Why don't you just go back to Milwaukee then.

Post #49 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:22 pm

shrink wrote:So what are you guys argueing?

1. That Garnett didn't tank? He obviously didn't play the last five games of the season -- are you saying it was because he wasn't phyiscally able to play them?

2. OR that KG DID tank, and Taylor had no right to say anything about it?

How about 3. That he was told to tank by management. At least he was two years ago when Ricky Davis coincidentally sat out last 6 games with Garnett and Mark Madsen launched 7 3 pointers in the last game of the season. Even if KG wasn't told to sit out the last 5 games of last season, Taylor comes off as a giant hypocrite.

shrink · Post #50 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:23 pm

A couple points:

1. I disagree with whatever poster said that Taylor never takes the blame for anything. He told everyone who would listen that he was responsible for losing the three picks in the Joe Smith deal. His rebuild plan last year put a lot of blame on himself and the front office for getting away from their core idea of getting good people, trying to get that one extra player to get them over the top.

2. I find it ironic that posters are so vehement that KG didn't take those five games off. You have no way of knowing. Taylor did. Clearly on a team around KG, if KG suddenly decides not to play, the rest of the team may give up and tank. Personally, I think that KG is such a competitor, that he had a hard time playing his butt off (the only way he plays) knowing he was hurting his chances of winning longterm. He needed to be away from the game -- not be there, and maybe not even watch it. He may have made that decision himself, (and I'm not saying its the wrong decision), but Taylor was angry because he paid KG $1 mil to play those games, and entertain the fans. I can see both sides on this one.

3. I laugh at people that look at a guy that plunks down $100 mil a year on an NBA team, and say, "he didn't save basketball." If not .. YOU come up with the $100 mil! MIN fans understand from Carl Pohlad that a professional sports franchise is not a god-given right. You need an owner who's willing to put his own money out there, run the risk of financial problems and constant public criticism from a bunch of uneducated yahoos that have only an inkling of how a big business is run, but think they know how to do everything better.

shrink · Post #51 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:25 pm

Worm Guts wrote: How about 3. That he was told to tank by management.

Conspiracy theorist?

If that was true, what possible reason would Taylor have for lieing now? KG would just go to the media and say, "Taylor ordered me to do it"

Post #52 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:35 pm

shrink wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Conspiracy theorist?

If that was true, what possible reason would Taylor have for lieing now? KG would just go to the media and say, "Taylor ordered me to do it"

So Ricky Davis, KG both suffered season ending injuries the day the Wolves were eliminated from the playoffs? There's no disputing the Wolves as organization decided to tank 2 seasons ago, there really isn't.

Maybe KG decided to sit out on his own last year and that's the only reason I can think of why Taylor would say what he did but I have no doubt it was ordered the year before.

shrink · Post #53 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:57 pm

Yes, I don't think there's any way Taylor would say this now if had ordered KG to sit. Maybe he did order KG to sit before (although from what little info we got, KG had said his knees were bothering him a little throughout the season. And I have no doubt that if KG wasn't playing, for whatever reason, Ricky Davis was not going to be of any use out there.

However, even if this is all true, if you pay a guy over $1 mil to go out and play, and entertain fans, its the bosses call whether you show up for work -- not the employee's, if he wants to get paid.

deeney0 · Post #54 » by **deeney0** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:07 pm

shrink wrote:So what are you guys argueing?

1. That Garnett didn't tank? He obviously didn't play the last five games of the season -- are you saying it was because he wasn't phyiscally able to play them?

2. OR that KG DID tank, and Taylor had no right to say anything about it?

That 1 may be true, and it seems more likely than a complete 180 in his outlook towards the game, and in any event we've been given much more ample evidence to trust KG than to trust Taylor. And regardless of 1, 2 also has plenty of merit.

deeney0 · Post #55 » by **deeney0** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:08 pm

shrink wrote:2. I find it ironic that posters are so vehement that KG didn't take those five games off. You have no way of knowing. Taylor did.

This comes from the "I don't trust KG, but for some reason I'm trusting Glen Taylor" school of thought. If that's your general premise, I don't think you've got anything to back it up.

Post #56 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:12 pm

shrink wrote:Yes, I don't think there's any way Taylor would say this now if had ordered KG to sit. Maybe he did order KG to sit before (although from what little info we got, KG had said his knees were bothering him a little throughout the season. And I have no doubt that if KG wasn't playing, for whatever reason, Ricky Davis was not going to be of any use out there.

Mark Madsen shot 7 three pointers in an overtime game and wasn't pulled. The Wolves were in full tank mode the last 6 games of the season and it's impossible to deny.

However, even if this is all true, if you pay a guy over $1 mil to go out and play, and entertain fans, its the bosses call whether you show up for work -- not the employee's, if he wants to get paid

I'm sure KG was just as injured last season as he was the year before. If Taylor didn't believe KG was injured he could have fined him or docked his pay for those games.

shrink · Post #57 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:17 pm

Worm Guts wrote: I'm sure KG was just as injured last season as he was the year before. If Taylor didn't believe KG was injured he could have fined him or docked his pay for those games.

What evidence do you have that he was equally injured both seasons? At best we can say we don't know -- I'm just commenting that I felt like we heard more about his knees the previous season, but I don't know either. This front office doesn't give out much information.

Yes, he technically could have docked him pay, but it would have been a public insult (worse than this one that has everyone up in arms), and it would alienate your marquis player and lower his trade value.

shrink · Post #58 » by **shrink** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:21 pm

Worm Guts wrote: Mark Madsen shot 7 three pointers in an overtime game and wasn't pulled. The Wolves were in full tank mode the last 6 games of the season and it's impossible to deny.

First, that was OT of the last game of the season.

But the question isn't "Were the Wolves in tank mode the last seven games." The question is "why?" Did KG's refusal to play (if true) force that decision, causing other players to give up hope of a victory?

Post #59 » by **C.lupus** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:31 pm

shrink wrote:Yes, I don't think there's any way Taylor would say this now if had ordered KG to sit. Maybe he did order KG to sit before (although from what little info we got, KG had said his knees were bothering him a little throughout the season. And I have no doubt that if KG wasn't playing, for whatever reason, Ricky Davis was not going to be of any use out there.

However, even if this is all true, if you pay a guy over $1 mil to go out and play, and entertain fans, its the bosses call whether you show up for work -- not the employee's, if he wants to get paid.

I agree with you here (and your other points, too) even if your boss is paying you $10 per hour. However, it is also the responsibility of management (or at least the mark of good management) to get the most out of their employees, whether they are playing basketball or making widgets. I can say from experience that it is very difficult for even the best and brightest employee to get motivated if they don't trust management and/or feel that the situation is hopeless.

So, is KG a saint? No. Should KG have taken himself out of the games? No. Is it understandable that he did? Yes.

Is Taylor the greatest owner ever and the savior of bball in MN? No. Is Taylor wrong in what he said? No. Should Taylor have said it now? No.

Post #60 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:32 pm

shrink wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

First, that was OT of the last game of the season.

But the question isn't "Were the Wolves in tank mode the last seven games." The question is "why?" Did KG's refusal to play (if true) force that decision, causing other players to give up hope of a victory?

There's a difference between not trying hard (in other words, playing with no hope) and actively trying to lose, which Mark Madsen was doing. And he was left in the game by the coaches. I'm not sure what it being the last game of the season has to with anything.
And why was Ricky Davis coincidentally out for the season at the same time as KG?