GT: ATL @ WAS -- 3/17/2008

[doclinkin]

You won't hear anything from those posters more than likely. They never post when their boys AJ and EJ suck (the majority of the games).

Hmmn. Ya think? Was a time when I had the free minutes and spare bad intentions enough to ask ya to meet me in the insults thread and we could have a good tussle. I don't now. I could blame being more well-adjusted, could be I'm just busy.

But as for posting or not: I'm here when I get time.

You saying I'm a fairweather fan though? Really? You really think that's the pointiest duelling sword you got? You really think that will make anyone think you're the real perceptive guy with a firm grasp of the obvious? Uh, hell no. I'd hope if anyone ever said a true thing about me on this board it's that --agree or not-- when the chips are down is when I'm pulling for the team hardest. Not spending the first half of every game thread crying about every damn thing and shoveling horseapples onto the players on MY squad. Only to have to eat that whole cartload of horsepuckey when the team actually pulls it out.

Hey, I got no problem with people venting frustrations here on the boards. Fandom is an excuse to shed rationality anyway and devote yourself to something beyond your control. And generally: beyond your influence. Especially in a game thread. Just understand one thing: the players read these boards, their family read these boards, I personally would hate to think that the league-wide perception of DC fans is that we ALL suck.

Passion's a good thing. It will take more than just a few playoff appearances to turn the thing around. My hope is that the culture is changing little by little. Can't win every game. Just got to try to get better all the time.

[miller31time]

Alright, I'm watching the game for the first time (CSN replay), and what I'm seeing is Atlanta being, well, Atlanta. They're faster to the loose balls. Plain and simple. They're young and inexperienced, so when they're off, they're off. But when this team is on, they're one tough customer.

They, to this point, are on and to be honest, I'm surprsed the score is only 68-64.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

That team [Atlanta] is loaded with talent. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm amazed they're doing as poorly as they are. And I'm not at all surprised they're making a run at the end of the year. And they had an excellent game plan -- pass the ball to whoever Jamison's guarding, force the defense to collapse, pass the ball to whoever's been left wide open. Every single team has done that to us this year and you basically have to pray they miss. Instead what happens is their three point specialist gets in a groove and gets a career high. I noticed actually that the perimeter defense deteriorated significantly when CB came back, wonder why that is. Who was starting at the three over this stretch who is so much better defensively than Caron? Blatche and Songaila? Strange.

[Ruzious]

Alright, I'm watching the game for the first time (CSN replay), and what I'm seeing is Atlanta being, well, Atlanta. They're faster to the loose balls. Plain and simple. They're young and inexperienced, so when they're off, they're off. But when this team is on, they're one tough customer.

They, to this point, are on and to be honest, I'm surprsed the score is only 68-64.

Yeah, I didn't get to see the game, but listening on the radio and going by seeing both teams in the past - Atlanta is just a more athletic team. And that's athleticism combined with skeeils. When Horford is playing well, they're a good team, and apparently - he dominated the boards. Btw, what was up with Butler. It sounded like he was really bad - especially in the 4th quarter. Does he look healthy?

[LyricalRico]

Btw, what was up with Butler. It sounded like he was really bad - especially in the 4th quarter. Does he look healthy?

He had some nice assists early but by the second half he was going one-on-one when he had the ball. That bad left hand wasn't helping any. There was one play where he just lost the ball on a fast break and his mid-range game was non-existent.

Add in the Clippers game where he standing around a lot on offense and he's definitely not the same guy. It doesn't look like he can't move but the rhythm isn't there yet.

[gowiz999]

-= original quote snipped =-



Hmmn. Ya think? Was a time when I had the free minutes and spare bad intentions enough to ask ya to meet me in the insults thread and we could have a good tussle. I don't now. I could blame being more well-adjusted, could be I'm just busy.

But as for posting or not: I'm here when I get time.

You saying I'm a fairweather fan though? Really? You really think that's the pointiest duelling sword you got? You really think that will make anyone think you're the real perceptive guy with a firm grasp of the obvious? Uh, hell no. I'd hope if anyone ever said a true thing about me on this board it's that --agree or not-- when the chips are down is when I'm pulling for the team hardest. Not spending the first half of every game thread crying about every damn thing and shoveling horseapples onto the players on MY squad. Only to have to eat that whole cartload of horsepuckey when the team actually pulls it out.

Hey, I got no problem with people venting frustrations here on the boards. Fandom is an excuse to shed rationality anyway and devote yourself to something beyond your control. And generally: beyond your influence. Especially in a game thread. Just understand one thing: the players read these boards, their family read these boards, I personally would hate to think that the league-wide perception of DC fans is that they ALL suck.

Passion's a good thing. It will take more than just a few playoff appearances to turn the thing around. My hope is that the culture is changing little by little. Can't win every game. Just got to try to get better all the time.

That's the players' own fault if they read fans' message boards. I think that's stupid but they can do as they please. If they don't want to read negative things then don't read them. It's that simple. I'm not holding back anything just to avoid "hurting the feelings" of professional athletes making millions of dollars a year.

[doclinkin]

Not my point, I'll re-phrase (& edit later) what I meant was:

I'd hate for the league-wide perception to be that all DC fans suck.

The Warriors have sucked for years. But their fans have always been good. Sactown ditto. Inidana always makes noise even when their teams are stank.

Here, we leave before the game is over, whine about a winning team, quit on the squad before halftime and look for something to bitch about first chance we get. All symptoms of the same thing. But the fact is, this reality/perception can hurt the team. If the players are killing themselves to get a win, and their people are telling them the fans are pointlessly killing them out in the internets, etc. best believe when free agency rolls around this sorta thing gets taken into account.

Fact is, you post, but it ain't in a vacuum. So if you don't want somebody to challenge you on your opinion and show the flaws in your logic or lack thereof, don't post. And expect the same courtesy you extend the players/coaches. Call someone an idiot, expect the same stone be thrown right back.

[fugop]

That team [Atlanta] is loaded with talent. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm amazed they're doing as poorly as they are. And I'm not at all surprised they're making a run at the end of the year. And they had an excellent game plan -- pass the ball to whoever Jamison's guarding, force the defense to collapse, pass the ball to whoever's been left wide open. Every single team has done that to us this year and you basically have to pray they miss. Instead what happens is their three point specialist gets in a groove and gets a career high. I noticed actually that the perimeter defense deteriorated significantly when CB came back, wonder why that is. Who was starting at the three over this stretch who is so much better defensively than Caron? Blatche and Songaila? Strange.

Darius and Blatche were probably either too slow footed to actually collapse on Jamison's man, or just blew their presumably coach-given assignments to do so.

[dobrojim]

at the risk of sounding like a broken record (man, that expression
is really dated now), the one thing I didn't like from the game was
how easily ATL got us to 2x team. No freakin wonder they shot
such a high percentage. As soon as any one of a number of different
ATL players got the ball (I didn't notice that it was only AJ's man)
we'd run another player at them. The next thing you know Horford
would be at the FT line in what was basically a 3 on 2 situation. They'd
then have their choice of open shots and shooters.

Bibby was hitting 3s at least partly because he wasn't being guarded.
His defender was repeatedly sluffing off (and usually accomplishing
little by doing so).

Man up or get off the floor. (extreme position/philosophy)

or at least wait for the opp to expose someone in one way,
then try to take that away from them. Trying to play D by
running around like chickens with their heads cut off is not
going to get it done against professional players. That's my
naive armchair QB/monday morning analysis.

Caron's looking rusty, nicked up... and he'd be matched up against
longer possibly more athletic players. It's not going to get any
easier WED at ORL with either Turkeyglue or 'shardLewis to guard.

[fishercob]

at the risk of sounding like a broken record (man, that expression
is really dated now), the one thing I didn't like from the game was
how easily ATL got us to 2x team. No freakin wonder they shot
such a high percentage. As soon as any one of a number of different
ATL players got the ball (I didn't notice that it was only AJ's man)
we'd run another player at them. The next thing you know Horford
would be at the FT line in what was basically a 3 on 2 situation. They'd
then have their choice of open shots and shooters.

My observation on the double teaming was slightly different. I just think they did a poor job of it -- specifically, they were slow to realize when they should double. Smith would get it in the post with AJ on him, and Daniels and whomever else would stare at him for a second, unsure of what to do. And they'd sort of make their way toward helping. By the time they got there they'd be so out of position that it only took a pass or two to get ATL a wide open look.

They need to recognize doubling situations immediately, and bring the second defender without hesitation, arms flailing (Songaila actually does this reasonably well). The rotations need to be just as fast and precise.

Maybe EJ isn't giving Ayers as much time at practice anymore, because the D looks a lot worse than it did when we were 21-17.

[dobrojim]

fair point Fish

my only response would be that if you can't effectively 2x
team and then recover, you better stop doing it. All along what
has been my observation is that the double teaming hasn't worked.
Sometimes it's almost like a faux double team. The second defender
never really arrives. He merely cheats long enough to provide the
opportunity for a pro to hit a wide open shot.

Doubles have to be HARD double teams that require the offense
to take time to recover from, so the D can recover. Allow a quick
pass out of the double team and you're dead meat. Half-arse doubles
accomplish nothing.

[LyricalRico]

My observation on the double teaming was slightly different. I just think they did a poor job of it -- specifically, they were slow to realize when they should double. Smith would get it in the post with AJ on him, and Daniels and whomever else would stare at him for a second, unsure of what to do. And they'd sort of make their way toward helping. By the time they got there they'd be so out of position that it only took a pass or two to get ATL a wide open look.

my only response would be that if you can't effectively 2xteam and then recover, you better stop doing it. All along what has been my observation is that the double teaming hasn't worked. Sometimes it's almost like a faux double team. The second defender never really arrives. He merely cheats long enough to provide the opportunity for a pro to hit a wide open shot.

You're right, this is a broken record. These posts could have come from any of a hundred game threads since EJ has been coach. We've had numerous roster changes over the last few seasons but no matter who's here, they all play like they have absolutely no idea how to execute a professional double team. I wonder why?

[dobrojim]

Fair point LR.

I note that Matt Carroll who just killed us a little over a week ago
was completely stymied in the boxscore that I saw this morning.
Probably because Lowry was all over Felton and no one had to
leave Carroll to make up for Felton's penetration. This allowed MEM
to handily beat CHA despite Wallace's return.

[TheSecretWeapon]

The Wiz were likely trying to double at the moment the player made his move -- either on the dribble or when he started to attack. That's the reason for the hesitation. It may have been that the scouting report showed that this strategy works better against the Hawks (in most games) than doubling immediately.

[miller31time]

The Hawks were making a lot of unexpectedly accurate interior passes. If I were gameplanning for a Hawks game, I'd also implement a double team down low strategy, not really thinking that guys like Al Horford, Marvin Williams, Josh Childress, and even Josh Smith (who didn't end up with any assists, but did make some nice passes that led to passes that led to assists).