Teams that might covet Yi

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Can the mods do anything about St. Nick? 100% of his posts here are negative posts about Yi. In spite of dozens (hundreds?) of posts on this board there is no other subject that he has ever contributed to. I put him on ignore many months ago, but I still see his quoted posts influencing the direction of a high percentage of our Yi threads.

I would never think to go to another team's board and create 100 negative posts about one particular player, but if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone to tolerate it.

[St.Nick]

When have the Clippers ever cared that much about talent over business interests? Ideally they'd like to have both, obviously, but comparing Elton Brand and, say, Ty Lawson or D.J. Augustine or whoever else the Clippers might pick 6th to Yi Jianlian is, in terms of revenue implications, like comparing Michael Redd and Andrew Bogut to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. What part of "Donald Sterling is obsessed with revenue and profit" don't you understand?

I bet I could find quotes on here from the very same people who are dismissing this trade that talk about how pathetic the Clippers management is and how they don't care about winning, only profit. Yet these same people have exactly the knee-jerk reaction to this trade that a casual basketball fan with no idea who Donald Sterling is would have.

You are confusing things, Luke. While you can, and have, tied in separate facts and created a theory...that theory does not stand up in reality.

Facts
1. It is correct that Yi brings in revenue from Chinese fans
2. It is correct that Donald Sterling likes revenue

But your logic then takes the unfortunate leap in saying that Sterling would do anything to gain additional revenue.

He absolutely would not trade his best player for an unproven, raw rookie (plus an additional $14M in contracts). Only a complete fool would trade Brand for pennies on the dollar in terms of basketball talent value. If you put this idea on the trade board it would get absolutely massacred....I promise you.

Seriously, you guys need to hold onto Yi and wait for him to become the next Nowitzki. Trading him now would not give you back the return that you are looking for.

[St.Nick]

I'm just being honest with you guys. I follow your team a bit and think you have good pieces to work with (play or trade), so I'm just chiming in on that.

If you can't handle what I say about Yi-- who btw I have been right about and who interestingly many of you are looking to shop around the league now-- feel free to put me on ignore. I won't take it personally.

BTW, the Brandan Wright comparisons are ridiculous. They do not mean anything to me, even though I laugh a bit when you guys continue to try to bring down Wright, who is a much smoother and more talented player than Yi (and three years younger).

[LUKE23]

I'm just being honest with you guys. I follow your team a bit and think you have good pieces to work with (play or trade), so I'm just chiming in on that.

If you can't handle what I say about Yi-- who btw I have been right about and who interestingly many of you are looking to shop around the league now-- feel free to put me on ignore. I won't take it personally.

BTW, the Brandan Wright comparisons are ridiculous. They do not mean anything to me, even though I laugh a bit when you guys continue to try to bring down Wright, who is a much smoother and more talented player than Yi (and four years younger).

You haven't been right at all actually. And Yi is one year older than Wright and a better player currently.

Sorry.

[REDDzone]

I'm just being honest with you guys. I follow your team a bit and think you have good pieces to work with (play or trade), so I'm just chiming in on that.

If you can't handle what I say about Yi-- who btw I have been right about and who interestingly many of you are looking to shop around the league now-- feel free to put me on ignore. I won't take it personally.

BTW, the Brandan Wright comparisons are ridiculous. They do not mean anything to me, even though I laugh a bit when you guys continue to try to bring down Wright, who is a much smoother and more talented player than Yi (and three years younger).

Bottom line, going to the BUCKS board, and saying "Yi sucks" is trolling.

Do you honestly have nothing better to do than troll the board of one of the worst teams in the NBA that is not even in the same conference of the team you follow? Honestly. I'm sorry.

[paulpressey25]

It's doubtful that they would do Brand for Yi/filler and no picks involved on either side, and it's doubtful that the Bucks would give up Yi and our pick for Brand/no pick.

I think the Clips would easily do Yi + Dez (expiring) for Brand. But I wouldn't interpret that to mean Yi is that valuable but more that Brand is a major question mark and Yi means Chinese money and a smaller contract than Brand.

St. Nick----You've noted your opinion on Yi. We've got it in this thread. Fair point.......More of the same will equal trolling......

[LUKE23]

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I think the Clips would easily do Yi + Dez (expiring) for Brand. But I wouldn't interpret that to mean Yi is that valuable but more that Brand is a major question mark and Yi means Chinese money and a smaller contract than Brand.

St. Nick----You've noted your opinion on Yi. We've got it in this thread. Fair point.......More of the same will equal trolling......

Why? They are losing Maggette already this offseason and Brand is by far their best player, who isn't 30 yet. If they are going to trade for Yi, they would need to think he's a franchise player, and while I like Yi's talents, I don't think he projects to that level.

If the Clippers are going to go into full-rebuild mode, they would be looking for picks for any deal involving Brand, IMO.

[coolhandluke121]

Thanks for backing me up a little PP. I looked up the specifics and Brand has averaged over 38 mpg and 75 games a year for 8 full seasons (this would have been his 9th). And this man is not built like KG or Duncan. He is a tank. He is 6'8" 255, and he gives 100% on every play no matter how bad his team is. He is a workaholic and he ruptured his Achilles because he abuses his body and is not meant for that kind of workload. While in and of itself a ruptured Achilles is not career-ending, Brand has the worst possible build to come back from that because his approach and his bulk puts a ridiculous amount of stress on his lower body. And if he has to change his style of play to account for reduced mobility, or has to cut his minutes, he loses what makes him special and just becomes a big, bulky, short pf with good skills but lots of drawbacks that he can no longer make up for.

Luke is right the way if he frames it the way he does, but he forgets that the deal includes Mo, who by any account should have about the same trade value as Jason Terry or Mike Bibby did. He's a legitimate 3rd or 4th option on any team, and on some nights a 1st option. I don't think it's such a stretch to think the Clippers would like to have him. With Livingston hurt worse than Brand, pg is a big need area for them.

I just don't get why some people act like the Clippers wouldn't be getting any talent in such a trade. But I guess it's one of the fundamental misconceptions of even the most astute basketball fans, who don't understand how much an established player's trade value can decline in a very short period. People should realize that such sudden changes are a fundamental part of sports personnel matters. I wouldn't even want Brand if he had more than a year or two left on his contract, and would prefer J.O. like you said.

[coolhandluke121]

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Why? They are losing Maggette already this offseason and Brand is by far their best player, who isn't 30 yet. If they are going to trade for Yi, they would need to think he's a franchise player, and while I like Yi's talents, I don't think he projects to that level.

If the Clippers are going to go into full-rebuild mode, they would be looking for picks for any deal involving Brand, IMO.

The last sentence is probably true, and yet one could argue that trading for Yi is basically like trading for a pick. Yes, it's hard to see them giving up a draft pick, but there's nobody to get real excited about beyond Rose and Beasley, whereas Yi is still very intriguing and has the revenue factor going for him.

We obviously disagree strongly on how much trade value Brand has after his injury, but even more troubling is how you can't seem to acknowledge that Donald Sterling has a long, established history of not caring all that much about getting adequate compensation (or any compensation at all) when he relinquishes a talented player. Throw in the strongest desire to turn a profit of any owner in sports and the Yi trade doesn't seem so far-fetched. It has at the very least turned into a pretty good conversation.

[LUKE23]

Brand will be about 1.5 years removed from a near MVP season when 08-09 kicks off. I realize he is coming off a major injury, however, Brand's game is based more on power and size than it is on vertical explosion (like Amare, Howard, KG in his younger days), so while I think the injury will affect him, I still see him as a 20/10 type player at his age. Given that the Clippers have the money to pay him, IMO it is much more likely they resign him, use their lottery pick on the best player available, and go with lottery Livingston/pick/Thorton/Brand/Kaman as their core going forward.

The Clippers already have a pretty nice frontcourt in place, Thorton is a very nice player. Add a good young scoring guard to that and get Livingston healthy, and you have something. I just don't think they would be willing to trade Brand for Yi/Mo, which would be basically admitting a full rebuild yet again.

As far as the point on revenue/marketing, I will believe all of that once I see how much the Bucks benefit from Yi being here at the end of the season. My guess is it will have not made a significant impact on our revenue stream. Granted, LA is a bigger market, but the Clippers are by far the worst draw of all the pro sports teams in California.

[St.Nick]

If Sterling didn't want to spend anything and was willing to field a losing team he wouldn't have given Brand a max contract, wouldn't have shelled out $60M for Kaman, wouldn't have given Mobley all that cash.

CHLuke, name me one thing Sterling has done in the past several years that makes you believe that he would be willing to give up a huge loss in talent and production (not to mention the teams leader) for an unestablished player.

Besides, if you look at history you will see that he did the exact opposite in the trade that brought IN Elton Brand (Brand for Chandler).

Finally, what contracts would Sterling be adding on with this deal? Brand is an expiring contract, which gives him huge trade value and also the possibility of major cap room in 2009. Is he going to take on Dan Gadzuric or Bobby Simmons--two guys on VERY bad contracts-- in order to make the Yi gamble? I highly doubt it.

Mods: Believe me that I'm not trolling, just bringing up valid counterpoints.

[coolhandluke121]

I researched Brand's injury and learned that it usually happens not from jumping and playing above the rim but from planting your foot hard and having a lot of momentum going forward. The tendon bears the brunt of the momentum and few players in the history of the league have put as much stress on their Achilles, pound-for-pound, as Elton Brand. It is precisely the floor-bound movements, the pivoting and planting and weight-bearing, that put him at risk. After looking it up I'm even more convinced now than I ever was that Brand won't ever be close to the player he used to be.

But that'll be my last argument, there's no way to settle this until Brand plays a full season next year anyway. I still maintain that the Clippers could reap huge financial benefits from adding Yi and that Sterling doesn't like the risk of investing in Brand down the road. To me, it just all fits together.

[coolhandluke121]

Nick, Sterling kept Brand and Maggette and Kaman and signed Mobley because he recognized the opportunity to field a very good team and knew that by doing so he would be making a good business decision as well. Now with Brand's future productivity open to question, Maggette being less consistent than expected, Livingston fighting a gruesome career-threatening injury, Cassell gone, and Mobley well past his prime, Sterling realizes his window has closed for a few years and will go back to his old ways of biding his time while watching every penny and serving as a way station for talented young players. Trading Brand for Yi would be entirely consistent with his entire body of work, the 3-4 year period when he invested so much money in young talent being the exception to the rule.

[Rockmaninoff]

After looking it up I'm even more convinced now than I ever was that Brand won't ever be close to the player he used to be.

Then why do you want him so badly?

[coolhandluke121]

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Then why do you want him so badly?

It's not so much about Brand, it's about trading Yi for a draft pick because I like CV a lot, it's about Brand being a better complement for Bogut even if he never returns to form, and it's about trading Mo because I think he's a bad fit for this team and he has a much longer contract than Brand. I'm not proposing the trade because I think it makes the Bucks that much more talented, I'm proposing it because I think it makes sense in terms of team needs.

[Sleepy51]

Exactly, I mean if your gonna got to the trouble of offloading all the crap on a roster, why not snag a 20/10 guy for scraps while you're at it. The Lakers did it for Gasol. All you need now is some pictures of Donald Sterling naked with a bowl of jello and a cub scout and you're golden.

This thread is awesome.

[trwi7]

All you need now is some pictures of Donald Sterling naked with a bowl of jello and a cub scout and you're golden.

I hope he likes strawberry because that's the only kind I have. Now I seem to have misplaced my leopard thong. Where is it KIAM?

[okanoho]

I dont like St.Nick
.

[howe070523]

St.Nicks, You have been trolling.
Now piss off.