MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

a-rod · Post #981 » by **a-rod** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:54 pm

My picks so far:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. chars Paul
3. Lebron James

eatyourchildren · Post #982 » by **eatyourchildren** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:57 pm

Can't we come up with a set of criteria that we can all use to debate this stupid thing?

I'll start:

1. Team Record
2. Individual Offense
3. Individual Defense
4. Contribution to teammates' performance
5.
6.
etc.

SA37 · Post #983 » by **SA37** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:02 pm

Jules Winnfield wrote:
Kobe has played like a MVP all season and they are tied for the best record in the West. Kobe's the MVP. I don't understand any of the arguments against him.

Paul's team has been at full strength all year. At NO POINT has Paul played on a team that is worst in talent than Kobe's. At NO POINT has Bynum and Gasol played together and Kobe's still lead his team to the best record.

In some people's book, Kobe is the MVP. However, a lot of people have different reasons for saying his the MVP or choosing another player. (For example, some people feel he should be the MVP simply because he is the best in the league and because his team is a top team in the West. Others thing he should be it because they think the Lakers would be worse off than any other team without their respective star.)

To me, the overall sentiment here and in the media has been Kobe is owed an MVP because he doesn't have one yet. So, since his team is finally winning, it is time to just hand him the award. (Let me firmly say that I am not insinuating that Kobe wouldn't be deserving of the MVP if he were to win. He would.)

As I've said in this thread already, I think Chris Paul is the MVP because his numbers, outside of rebounds and blocks -- the two you'd expect him to be the least likely to improve -- have improved drastically. (I already posted the numbers a couple pages back.)

Meanwhile, Kobe's numbers have essentially stayed the same or dropped off a bit, but his team has improved. While the Lakers have improved as a team, the argument that "Well, if Kobe got all the blame for not making his teammates better when they were losing, then he should automatically get all the credit now" doesn't fly.

Obviously, Bryant's presence helps get his teammates better shots and Kobe has been a better passer this year. But let's not discount the individual improvements that have absolutely nothing to do with Bryant. (See: Gasol, Bynum, and Fisher.) That isn't to say Bryant still hasn't help positively affect their achievements on the court, but this "all or nothing" argument some Laker fans like to make is just absurd.

(For the record, Chris Paul has made or assisted on almost 50% of his team's baskets this year. Bryant has accounted for 22.1% of his teams' assists; Paul has accounted for 50.5% of his teams' assists.)

Post #984 » by **Flash3** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:08 pm

You can make a valid and credible case for either of CP, Kobe or LeBron. All 3 are deserving of the award.

And for those who are using the fact/case that Kobe should get it because he hasn't gotten one in the past; that's laughable, at best.

CB4MiamiHeat · Post #985 » by **CB4MiamiHeat** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:20 pm

i dont get why Dwight Howard doesnt even get a mention..

SA37 · Post #986 » by **SA37** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:21 pm

G35 wrote:

Just because you put a talented player on a team doesn't mean everything just blends together. Kobe improved Gasols game. Gasol is now a 58% shooter after never shooting better than 54% his career.

1) Gasol's shooting percentage is only based on 18 games.
2) Those 18 games, 12 were against opponents with records under .500
3) Bryant averaged 5.7 apg in those 18 games, which is such a miniscule improvement over his season average of 5.3 it almost isn't even worth mentioning.
3) You can't just attribute his improvement to Bryant simply because you feel it will improve your argument.
4) Outside of the shooting percentage, Gasol's numbers are almost identical to what they were in Memphis this year.

If Bynum never goes down the Lakers would not have fallen off the #1 spot. They would have a 4 or 5 game cushion. Since December the Lakers were 16-3. It wouldn't even be close right now.

Based on what, exactly? You have no idea what would have transpired had Bynum not gone down. In fact, Gasol may not even be in a Laker uniform if Bynum doesn't go down.

But Kobe has been just as valuable and has a legitimate case.

Kobe has a legit case, but Paul has all the statistical backing to correlate his team's improvement with his play. Kobe does not.

You can tell there are some people that just want somebody, ANYBODY but Kobe to win. Begging. People that aren't even Hornets fans are pulling for Paul just so Kobe doesn't win.

Everytime there is a Laker game the amount of messages concerning Kobe is bigger than for any other player........

For the record, if it weren't for Paul's season, Kobe would be the runaway winner this year.

SA37 · Post #987 » by **SA37** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:24 pm

CB4MiamiHeat wrote:i dont get why Dwight Howard doesnt even get a mention..

Orlando has had a good year, but are you seriously going to compare that to the season New Orleans and L.A. have had? I mean, he wouldn't even finish in the top-2 if it were just Eastern Conference voting. (Garnett and James)

I would at least put Paul, Bryant, James, Garnett, and Deron Williams ahead of him in the MVP voting...

Post #988 » by **INKtastic** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:31 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:Can't we come up with a set of criteria that we can all use to debate this stupid thing?

I'll start:

1. Team Record
2. Individual Offense
3. Individual Defense
4. Contribution to teammates' performance
5.
6.
etc.

How about making the list first without trying to rank them. I'd add three things

Clutch play
Ability to take over the game
Ability to compensate for missing players

CB4MiamiHeat · Post #989 » by **CB4MiamiHeat** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:31 pm

Well ,hes putting up Shaqs 2004 numbers..the year he finished 2nd in MVP voting. And voters love to look at wins..they have 45...thats as many as Utah, Phx, NO.

Im just surprised he doesnt get a mention, i dont think he should win.

Datruth345 · Post #990 » by **Datruth345** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:46 pm

Dirk_diggler_41 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

What makes you think I haven

"...That, Mr. James, is etched in stone.” - Bill Russell