Why don't some of the NCAA's leading scorers get drafted?

[Joseph17]

I was looking at the NCAA's leading scorers from the previous years and I realized that plenty of them don't even get drafted. Reggie Williams lead the NCAA in scoring both this year and last year. He's not even listed on nbadraft.net. Keydren Clark was a top 3 scorer in the NCAA 3 years in a row. He didn't get drafted either. Kevin Martin has had success in the NBA despite coming from a small school. Why can't these players have success in the NBA?

[Bucky O'Hare]

Most are big fish in small ponds, putting up big numbers against near high school-level competition.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

1. As mentioned, these are guys who clearly outclass their peers in the league, but are in said league for one reason or another.

2. The quality of coaching at the mid-major level is not always of the high-major caliber, and some mid-major coaches are so good at maximizing the production of their players that it's difficult to duplicate.

3. Usually, they have some unfixable flaw (size, speed) that prevents them from going D-I.

4a. Scorers are generally not complete players.
4b. Scorers do not receive the necessary coaching to become complete players.

[WillC]

In a nutshell, some of the bench warmers of teams like North Carolina, Duke and Kansas would probably put up 25ppg if they played for weak college teams in weak conferences.

At the college level, statistics are not always what they seem. There are too many variable factors.

However, joeyyowee does bring up an interesting point. The success of Kevin Martin suggests that perhaps more NBA teams should take a gamble on top scorers from the lower leagues.

[Gilles]

Kevin had things going on for him: come draft time he was exceptionally quick, he could shoot very well and he loved and I say sought contact and went to the FT line a lot. If you find such little things in a prospect why not give him a chance. The thing is Kevin is still rather limited in doing anything other than scoring so points made by PNF are valid for him.

[JoeT]

In a nutshell, some of the bench warmers of teams like North Carolina, Duke and Kansas would probably put up 25ppg if they played for weak college teams in weak conferences.

At the college level, statistics are not always what they seem. There are too many variable factors.

However, joeyyowee does bring up an interesting point. The success of Kevin Martin suggests that perhaps more NBA teams should take a gamble on top scorers from the lower leagues.

Plenty of small school guys get plenty of chances, be it at pre-draft camps, summer league, or in preseason. Plenty also get drafted. Just looking at last year's first round, you see Stuckey, Jason Smith, and Almond. The guys who aren't getting drafted and aren't making it in the league aren't making it for a reason, which is usually size, skill, athleticism, or some combination of the three. Scoring in bunches at the college level doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to do it in the pros. It's about what translates and what doesn't. It's not just about small school vs big school either. Guys can dominate at big schools and have virtually zero chance at making it in the pros. One recent example was Marco Killingsworth at Indiana.

NBA teams don't need to gamble on small school scorers any more than they're currently doing.

[JonathanG]

Kevin Martin was a 6-7 shooting guard with terrific athleticism. He was a late bloomer who was not recruited by any other college except Western Carolina because of his incredibly poor frame. As you can read on this (poorly written) feature I did on him back in 04 before he was drafted, he only weighed 90 pounds as a high school freshman!

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Dra ... rkouts-15/

He only weighed 145 pounds as a high school senior...that's why so many teams passed on him. The reason he's developed so well is that he had an incredible amount of untapped potential that was brought out through the hard work he put in with trainer David Thorpe, then an unknown himself, but now a top analyst with ESPN and arguably the top trainer in America.

Most top-scorers in the college ranks don't have anywhere near the same type of combination of physical tools+skills+upside that Martin did.

[Amen316]

This year there will gaurantee to be a player from a small school with big time scoring potential. Tenn-Martin Lester Hudson.
Two years ago I felt Rodney Stuckey from Easten Washington whom was averaging about 23pts agame would be overlooked, but he returned for one more year of college put up about the same numbers and the Detroit Pistons saw their future combo-guard in the mid first round of 2007 NBA draft

[giberish]

In addition to the weaker competition, many of the leading scorers in the NCAA get their points by being overwhelming 1st options for their team and/or being on teams that play at extremely fast paces. In other words, they take a huge volume of shots, but often aren't as efficient at scoring as their ppg totals would suggest.

The players that can combine scoring a lot of points with scoring efficiently (by shooting high %'s, getting to the line a lot, and not committing turnovers) will tend to get a shot in the NBA even if they play at a low or mid D-1 team. Of course it also really helps if you can do something else besides score (defend, rebound, play point, etc)

[Joseph17]

In addition to the weaker competition, many of the leading scorers in the NCAA get their points by being overwhelming 1st options for their team and/or being on teams that play at extremely fast paces. In other words, they take a huge volume of shots, but often aren't as efficient at scoring as their ppg totals would suggest.

The players that can combine scoring a lot of points with scoring efficiently (by shooting high %'s, getting to the line a lot, and not committing turnovers) will tend to get a shot in the NBA even if they play at a low or mid D-1 team. Of course it also really helps if you can do something else besides score (defend, rebound, play point, etc)

Reggie Williams shoots 52.8% from the field. He also averages 9.7 rebounds per game.

[WillC]

-= original quote snipped =-



Plenty of small school guys get plenty of chances, be it at pre-draft camps, summer league, or in preseason. Plenty also get drafted. Just looking at last year's first round, you see Stuckey, Jason Smith, and Almond. The guys who aren't getting drafted and aren't making it in the league aren't making it for a reason, which is usually size, skill, athleticism, or some combination of the three. Scoring in bunches at the college level doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to do it in the pros. It's about what translates and what doesn't. It's not just about small school vs big school either. Guys can dominate at big schools and have virtually zero chance at making it in the pros. One recent example was Marco Killingsworth at Indiana.

NBA teams don't need to gamble on small school scorers any more than they're currently doing.

Kevin Martin was drafted 26th overall in 2004. I'd argue he's now about the 5th best player in that draft class. If more teams had been willing to take a gamble on such players (as I said in my post), then he wouldn't have slipped so far.

So my point is valid.

[JonathanG]

-= original quote snipped =-



Kevin Martin was drafted 26th overall in 2004. I'd argue he's now about the 5th best player in that draft class. If more teams had been willing to take a gamble on such players (as I said in my post), then he wouldn't have slipped so far.

So my point is valid.

So just to clarify your point, because Kevin Martin was a steal at #26, an NBA team should go ahead and draft Reggie Williams or Charron Fisher this year?

[WillC]

I'm not saying that teams should take a gamble on every high scorer that comes along. I'm saying that perhaps they deserve a little more attention, as shown by the fact that Kevin Martin was passed on by 25 teams.

Don't put words into my mouth.

[JonathanG]

who told u they aren't getting attention from teams?

About putting words in your mouth...you said in your last post that teams should "take a gamble" on some of these guys, not just get attention. It isn't so far-fetched to assume that you meant drafting them...what else could it be?

[summary]

There are plenty of teams that sign undrafted player as free agents. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that some of these kids are seen as little more than warm bodies for summer leagues and the like but perhaps they should be looked at with higher expectations rather than being written off.

Not to mention I'm not sure expending a second round pick on any such player is crazy per se, it can be a complete crap shoot anyway.

I don't think you have to get bent out of shape for a feeling of rooting for the underdog on some level.

[chrbal]

Because most of the scoring leaders are nobodies from weak schools with weak competition.

Long Island University-Brooklyn, St. Peters, Virginia Military Institute, Centenary, Texas Southern, and Morehead State...any of those sound like powerhouses?

Xavier McDaniel, Hersey Hawkins, and Glenn Robinson were all able to translate their games to the NBA...but they played for good schools in their eras (Wichita State, Bradley, and Purdue).

[Blame Rasho]

He only weighed 145 pounds as a high school senior

Jeez... I thought that Tommy Hearns was stick figure at 6'2 and 147 I can't imagine him( 6'5 and 145) as a highschool player.

[_BBIB_]

I was looking at the NCAA's leading scorers from the previous years and I realized that plenty of them don't even get drafted. Reggie Williams lead the NCAA in scoring both this year and last year. He's not even listed on nbadraft.net. Keydren Clark was a top 3 scorer in the NCAA 3 years in a row. He didn't get drafted either. Kevin Martin has had success in the NBA despite coming from a small school. Why can't these players have success in the NBA?

I think rebounding numbers are more telling for those guys like Paul Milsap.

Most of those scoring leaders aren't even that efficient.

They just take an inordinate amount of shots.


Production takes a back seat to athleticism that translates to the next level.

That's why despite how productive Adam Morrison was in college and despite how productive JJ Redick was, both of those guys have hardly even come close to making a name for themselves in the league.

[WillC]

who told u they aren't getting attention from teams?

About putting words in your mouth...you said in your last post that teams should "take a gamble" on some of these guys, not just get attention. It isn't so far-fetched to assume that you meant drafting them...what else could it be?

Jonathan, once again, please learn to read.

I said that "perhaps" these players "deserve a little more attention". I did not say that these players "aren't getting any attention". If they weren't getting any attention then players like Kevin Martin wouldn't have been drafted at all. But if, like I said, they had received "a little more attention", then perhaps 25 GMs would not have passed on one of the best scorers in the NBA.

Please get off your Draftexpress high horse for one minute and stop taking offense to every little thing that I say. Yes, we know you watch these guys more than most, but that doesn't mean you know more than others.

And at least some of us can read.

[_SRV_]

There is no way a 6'5" 18 yo weights 145, he was either much shorter or the number is bogus.