Washington VS Orlando

[nate33]

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You know a lot of teams will pay Jamison no matter the luxury tax penalty? Is that what you mean? If that's what you mean, I think you're very wrong. Few owners will pay the luxury tax penalty and most of the teams that could afford to pay Jamison will hesitate about building around a guy who will be 32 years old soon. If you're Atlanta or Charlotte, I don't see the sense in tying up your salary structure in a guy who will be declining in a couple of years, just as you're trying to make a title move. Maybe Jamison makes sense for Philly, though I'm not so sure about that either.

Jamison is a terrific player -- far, far better than most on this board will admit. But he's not a young man anymore. His talents haven't declined yet, but 5 decades of history tells us they will begin to decline in a few years. You don't want to be paying some guy $16 million just as his body is betraying him.

Agreed.

And the bottom line is that it isn't a luxtax question anyhow. It's a salary cap question. Memphis and Philly are the only teams sure to have substantial cap room. Seattle will have about $6-7M in cap space depending upon how many first round picks they end up trading away. The Clippers situation has been discussed ad nauseum on the Arenas thread. Nobody else has any cap room at all.

Of the teams with cap room, we can be sure that Memphis will not go after Jamison. We can be sure that Jamison won't play for $6-8M in Seattle. And we can be reasonably sure that the Clippers won't go after Jamison assuming they end up retaining Brand.

Basically, that leaves only Philly. Jamison and Arenas are the best unrestricted free agents on the market. It wouldn't surprise me if Philly took a shot at Jamison. My guess is that they'll go after a younger guy like Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor first. But those guys are restricted so chances are they'll fail in those attempts. After that, they might give Jamison's agent a call.

I have no idea how much they'd be willing to offer. Prior to this month, I figured the Sixers wouldn't be interested because they were building for the future. But it appears that the Sixers are capable of being a competitive team right now. A guy like Jamison spreading the floor for Iggy and Miller (who are both mediocre outside shooters themselves) would be a nice fit.

The Sixers should have about $12M in cap space assuming Iggy resigns at about $8M.

[TheKingOfVa360]

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rofl yeah bro who would have thought orlando fans would be happy with you going over and rubbing it in there face after a 1 point emotional roller coaster of a loss. Get real.

More like Wizards in 6, Be real the Magic wouldn't even beat the Sixers in 5 games. You don't have a team built for the playoffs, the team is soft. Look at how Haywood push Dwight around last night. Hell the starting PF is Rashard Lewis the softest PF/SF in the league. Last nights game was a playoff type game not sure the Magic can win one of those. Has Dwight Howard ever won 1 playoff game? So please calm down, you have nothing to be arrogant about.

[GilArenas88]

MagicNolesFSU wrote:

rofl yeah bro who would have thought orlando fans would be happy with you going over and rubbing it in there face after a 1 point emotional roller coaster of a loss. Get real.

How did I rub the win in your guys face, please tell me. My first comment I made was defending Haywood when one of your board members was whinning that Haywood was a flopper because Dwight got into foul trouble. Second the only thing I said about the game is we one fair and square and stop whinning about it and making excuses to why you lost a win is a win anyway you cut it. Haywoods a great defender, and Im sure 95% of the fans on this board would defend me on this. So I invite you MagicNolesFSU to produce any post how I was rubbing it in your face. If anything you guys were rubbing it in our faces by diminishing our win by saying oh this and this happened so you guys got lucky. Get your facts straight buddy...

[tranjSAIC]

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More like Wizards in 6, Be real the Magic wouldn't even beat the Sixers in 5 games. You don't have a team built for the playoffs, the team is soft. Look at how Haywood push Dwight around last night. Hell the starting PF is Rashard Lewis the softest PF/SF in the league. Last nights game was a playoff type game not sure the Magic can win one of those. Has Dwight Howard ever won 1 playoff game? So please calm down, you have nothing to be arrogant about.

If the Magic are soft what does that make the Wizards? Jello? damn bro your team is full of jump shooters with NO low post presence, sounds like a team NOT made for the playoffs.

[queridiculo]

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Jamison is a terrific player -- far, far better than most on this board will admit. But he's not a young man anymore. His talents haven't declined yet, but 5 decades of history tells us they will begin to decline in a few years. You don't want to be paying some guy $16 million just as his body is betraying him.

Will his talents decline? Definitely, but he's not the type of player who relies on his athleticism to be effective, so I could definitely see him being able to play on this level for at least 3 more years.

He takes care of his body and has the skillset to adjust for declining athletic ability.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him fetch a 3 to 4 year deal at $10 million per.

[TheKingOfVa360]

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If the Magic are soft what does that make the Wizards? Jello? damn bro your team is full of jump shooters with NO low post presence, sounds like a team NOT made for the playoffs.

The team was soft enough to shut down Christopher Reeves and the Magic jump shooters minus Arenas and Etan Thomas in Orlando.

A team with no PG, No PF, or defense isn't made for the playoffs aka the Magic.

[Spence]

Will his talents decline? Definitely, but he's not the type of player who relies on his athleticism to be effective, so I could definitely see him being able to play on this level for at least 3 more years.

He takes care of his body and has the skillset to adjust for declining athletic ability.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him fetch a 3 to 4 year deal at $10 million per.

Almost all pro athletes take care of their bodies, but it doesn't stop them from declining. As Shaq says: "38 ain't 28, bro."

I don't know what money offers AJ will receive. I was responding to CCJ's contention that Jamison won't have to take a pay cut [yes, he will] and that plenty of teams are willing to pay the luxury tax to get him. [I doubt that ver, very much.]

[dobrojim]

re AJ's likely contract

seems reasonable to me that AJ and Gil will more/less swap
deals. AJ can make ~ $10M, Gil $16M.

net effect on the wiz (at least as far as grand total) = zero

that from my rather limited understanding of capology

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

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I'm just baffled the Wizards win by essentially leaving your team open from the perimeter to collapse on Howard. That seems to me a lame strategy but doggone if it didn't work, tonight. That 40% three point shooting of the Magic coupled with the 35 attempts from three would seem to be a sure loss to the opponent on most any other night, MagicNolesFSU.

I think if/when the Magic and Wizards meet in the playoffs I'll be screaming at Eddie Jordan.

How on earth can you beat a team with three point shooters like Hedo, Lewis, Bogans, Evans, Garrity, and Cook; by leaving the perimeter to go collapse on Dwight Howard?????

I'm similarly baffled. I actually don't think the Wiz played great D, it was more a case of the Magic going really cold. They missed a ton of shots they (and most NBA players) usually make. Haywood did well inside and Blatche's help D was really good and occassionally D-Shawn did a good job harassing Nelson on the perimeter... but mostly Orlando missed shots.

... and speaking of missing shots, how badly does Cook suck? This guy is the Magic's Arvis. Comes in, jacks shots, lead evaporates.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but in a playoff series against Orlando, the Wizard's depth is our stongest attribute.

[queridiculo]

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Almost all pro athletes take care of their bodies, but it doesn't stop them from declining. As Shaq says: "38 ain't 28, bro."

Kind of ironic that you're quoting Shaq, the only way he takes care of his body is with copious amounts of food!

[doclinkin]

Jamison is a terrific player -- far, far better than most on this board will admit. But he's not a young man anymore. His talents haven't declined yet, but 5 decades of history tells us they will begin to decline in a few years. You don't want to be paying some guy $16 million just as his body is betraying him.

To your larger point, right, I sincerely doubt 'Tawn will command anything like his current figure, not elsewhere in the market, nor here. And I doubt Cap'n AJ will worry about that or be offended by the idea. Age plays a factor, defense, style, sure. Though AJ is an all-star and a steadying influence and boxscore constant. He'll receive healthy offers but ultimately the Wiz will offer more money than anywhere else, a better situation than elsewhere, and Tawn will in all likelihood retire a Wizard.

But I'm gonna second hermitkid on this, though we'll pay more than anyone else (and odds suggest we'll read a few complaints about the cost on here) I get the feeling we'll still more than get our money's worth. His game will age well.

Antawn's efficiency is less vulnerable to decay than other NBAers because of the style he plays. His junkball arsenal is more predicated on oddball timing and unpredictable angles than banging jumping and absorbing contact. Ditto his rebounding: he takes the ball not by muscling his man off the block, but by getting to where the ball is going, seeing it quicker. And 3 pt shooting Bigs last longer than most players. (see-- Sleepy Sam Perkins, Big Shot Bob, etc).

Where Tawn's decay is sure to show up earliest is his defense. Yeah, yeah, I hear the collective moan, but the fact is up 'til this year he didn't play much defense anyway, and we did okay. If this is the best he's ever played defensively, he'll maintain something like this peak for at least a couple years then slide back into his less active role, provided he's stillearning the minutes, but by then he may have lost a few ticks of floor time to guys like Dray and Pesh anyway.

Of all players in the league his age I fully expect Jamison to age gracefully, taking a bench role by the end of his contract but still a valuable player, role-model, and mentor for the young bucks. His motivation has never been about the money (he landed a huge contract early and has shown the same fire and competitive drive every place he landed) and his conditioning is never in question, which is one reason he's always been able to maintain the long minutes with minimal dropoff.

Plus the team is likely to mature around him and help carry the slack, make his job easier even as a role-playing specialist late in his contract.

Nah, we'll sign him to a meaty contract, bearable under the tax, and ultimately give him full appreciation for the work he puts in. He mostly gets crap now because of the size of his contract relative to his perceived worth. But we'll be happy in retrospect when we compare and contrast to other players out there, and watch them as they age and drop off while Tawn keeps doing something like the same thing he's always done: play hard, provide a good example, drop the ball in the peach basket, and get buckets son.

[MagicNolesFSU]

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The team was soft enough to shut down Christopher Reeves and the Magic jump shooters minus Arenas and Etan Thomas in Orlando.

A team with no PG, No PF, or defense isn't made for the playoffs aka the Magic.

talking trash after a 1 point win. We didnt even talk trash after you got worked by 30 at home. We will see who is built for the playoffs. No use talking trash now about something you are guessing about.

[DCZards]

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Will his talents decline? Definitely, but he's not the type of player who relies on his athleticism to be effective, so I could definitely see him being able to play on this level for at least 3 more years.

He takes care of his body and has the skillset to adjust for declining athletic ability.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him fetch a 3 to 4 year deal at $10 million per.

I've got a similar vibe about AJ. Because he doesn't rely on athleticism and also seems to be a pretty smart dude, I can see him playing 3-5 more years...the last 2 or so as a highly-productive scorer off the bench.

I think re-signing AJ (for the right price) is a no-brainer for the Zards.

[nate33]

Good grief!

After visiting the Orlando board, I'm seriously starting to hate the Magic. Their fans are a bunch of whiners. And they have an attitude as if they're an elite team and we're a bunch of scrubs. I now want to play them more so than Cleveland.

[yungal07]

Good grief!

After visiting the Orlando board, I'm seriously starting to hate the Magic. Their fans are a bunch of whiners. And they have an attitude as if they're an elite team and we're a bunch of scrubs. I now want to play them more so than Cleveland.

So whiny.

They think they lost because the Magic played their absolute worst and the Wizards played their greatest game ever.

Out of the "top" teams in the East, I want them the most. Dwight Howard, as much of a physical freak he is, can be mentally taken out of his game. When that happens, the Magic almost always lose.

If we have a healthy Arenas back for the playoffs, we can beat them easily.

[hands11]

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Will his talents decline? Definitely, but he's not the type of player who relies on his athleticism to be effective, so I could definitely see him being able to play on this level for at least 3 more years.

He takes care of his body and has the skillset to adjust for declining athletic ability.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him fetch a 3 to 4 year deal at $10 million per.

He played himself up to that level this year. Time for EG to pull out the shoe horn. This is going to be a tight fit. But, Abe did give EG the ok to go over the cap if needed.

Well, it's finally go time. GA should be back in a few games. Then we will finally be on the way to seeing what we really have.

The CB extra injury was a crappy set back but at least we will have everyone on the court ( short of Thomas ) at the end of the season.

Speaking of Thomas. How is he doing? Didn't he start practicing again last week?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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Almost all pro athletes take care of their bodies, but it doesn't stop them from declining. As Shaq says: "38 ain't 28, bro."

I don't know what money offers AJ will receive. I was responding to CCJ's contention that Jamison won't have to take a pay cut [yes, he will] and that plenty of teams are willing to pay the luxury tax to get him. [I doubt that ver, very much.]

I NEVER said he wouldn't have to take a pay cut.

Shouldn't have to and won't have to are entirely different, Spence. You read into my (mostly vague) post. How do I know?

[parso15]

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You're not giving Haywood anywhere near enough credit. Sure, the Wiz double-downed with a guard when the ball was on Howard's side - as every team does against the Magic. But they did defend Lewis and Turkeyglu - just with guys who are not used to playing that deep - mainly Song and Jamison. And Turkey made some tough shots - he's having a ridiculous season - He's an amazing shooter with lots of skills. But Lewis wasn't even a factor. And the others you mentioned were defended as much as you need to defend them.

Do you guys think that Turkoglu made the transition from role player to star player? Sometimes its tough to break out of the steriotype once you get labeled... just wondering your take on him?

[fishercob]

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Do you guys think that Turkoglu made the transition from role player to star player? Sometimes its tough to break out of the steriotype once you get labeled... just wondering your take on him?

He's certainly good enough that it makes the Lewis acquisition seem less than wise. I suppose Rashard's a decent fit for Orlando, but the pricetag for 18 and 5 and a PER of 17 seems exorbitant.

[Ruzious]

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Do you guys think that Turkoglu made the transition from role player to star player? Sometimes its tough to break out of the steriotype once you get labeled... just wondering your take on him?

I think he always had the ability - but not cessenarily the opportunity. Remember, he's a 6'10 player who's often been played at guard - so you know he has unique skills for someone that size. But, his shooting has gone from excellent to amazing this season. Part of that is because Lewis gets a lot attention - combined with Howard getting lots of attention.