MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

[big123]

If Lebron has better numbers and New Orleans has a better record at the end of the year, then why on earth should Kobe get it?

I think the MVP right now is Paul.

[RobertGlory]

as for schedules

the hornets and lakers play the same schedule, except that each team plays four conference teams three times each.

for the hornets, that's denver, seattle, golden state, and sacramento.

for the lakers that's houston, minnesota, denver, and memphis

so not much difference

i think a more relevant strength of schedule for games already played takes into account a team's record in the recent stretch before you play them.

for example, if the celtics were 9-1 in the last 10 before playing you, and then the nuggets were 6-4, the strength of schedule would be .750 for the two game stretch, which is more relevant than the current formula. teams under that get credit for right now for example playing a 35-33 portland team that is currently far under that level.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

reading through this thread, why do Laker fans bring down Kobes teammates so much?..

Makes me wonder if we are watching the same games...

[Kobay]

^^ya we had 3 different starters than what we have now btw for our scrubs.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Kobe making a big statement today..this is what lj4mvp was talking about, when a big lead is cut down you gotta take over..and Kobe did just that.

[bl2k]

kobe bryant with an mvp performance, kobe does what kobe do

[INKtastic]

Exactly - MUCH better game from kobe tonight. The Jazz tried to rally, Kobe made all of the plays down the stretch to stop them - points, assists, rebounds, steals, all at timely times - all that were missing down the stretch of the dallas game.

He even said the right thing in the post game interview - that the game was personal because they booed Fisher the last time they played in Utah. I was pretty shocked myself when I heard they did that.

[Andrew Bynasty]

Huge, huge statement game made by Kobe tonight.

Thats back-to-back games where the Lakers took care of the best home team, and the 2nd best home team on the road and without their 2nd and 3rd best players. (They were up by 25 agaisnt the Mavs at one point, and 22 agaisnt the Jazz) Kobe has got to be the favorite right now in the MVP race. 28-8-7 and some clutch plays late in the game.

[Tesla]

Kobe holds on in the tight MVP race at the top... He slipped a bit after two losses to NOH, and HOU.... it looked like LA was going to drop 4 straight. Going 2-2 in that road trip, beating the two best home teams in the league back2back on the road without his second fiddle.

This road trip was huge for me, it would have been difficult for anyone to argue for Kobe for MVP if the Lakers lost all four of these road games, even though they were all four very loosable road games (even all healthy). 2-2 was my expectation with Gasol, and doing it without Gasol is just great.

Kobe/Cp3
..
KG
Lebron

[Doctor MJ]

-= original quote snipped =-



If you're going to use that stat, they strongly support nobody has elevated their team more than LeBron. LeBron's off court number is -12.7, Kobe's net +/- is +12.6. If LeBron was at +12.6, his on court number would be -0.1, instead it's +3.3 for a net of +18.0.

Really not following your math here lj.

As a big +/- guy, I'll just say I'm very hesitant to make big divisions between two guys with numbers as far away from the norm as LeBron & Kobe. Which is good for them because Nash's +/- numbers are really off the charts.

[Doctor MJ]

speaking of other candidates, how long does Phoenix have to keep this recent run up to get Nash back in contention?

Speaking for myself, he never dropped below 4, but it's very hard to see him at #1. Other guys are going to have to fall off quite a bit for that to happen.

As far as the MVP voters, I get the sense that they've just kind of decided that he's not a top candidate this year. I'd say it's a combo of fatigue (the 2 MVPs) and the sense that his team is not having a "successful" year, where successful is obviously a relative term.

[INKtastic]

-= original quote snipped =-



Really not following your math here lj.

As a big +/- guy, I'll just say I'm very hesitant to make big divisions between two guys with numbers as far away from the norm as LeBron & Kobe. Which is good for them because Nash's +/- numbers are really off the charts.

I saw that, which is why I asked the question (not much of a +/- guy myself, but brought it up for those who are).

Phoenix is just 1 game out of first and riding a 6 game winning streak. Suddenly the trade doesn't look quite so bad. I believe the streak started the game Shaq dove into the crowd, which itself happened just after all of the talk of the trade being a bust. Interesting to watch these things develop.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

im surprised the media is not on KG as the favorite..usually they look at who has the most wins, and what team had the biggest turnaround.

Thats pleasantly surprised though, cause i dont think he deserves it at all..but thats how the media usually votes.

[RobertGlory]

kobe retakes the MVP race lead again by a smidge, but CP3 can easily swing it his way again with Saturday night hosting Boston

[eatyourchildren]

I don't understand the argument that because Kobe's stats aren't as good (which is not true btw, because only his scoring is down), that CP or LeBron is a better candidate. Stats don't tell the whole story. Kobe's improvement has been in all the non-statistical categories, and has the media, coaches, and opposing teams raving about it.

I also don't understand the argument that Kobe hasn't made his teammates better, they've gotten better. But CP has made his teammates better? From where do you get that? CP and his teammates were injured last year. How can you assess the impact of CP when you dont have a prior healthy season to compare to?

The reason why LeBron isn't in the conversation is because his team doesn't have an elite record. Period. If he gets to 55+ wins, we can start talking about him more. LeBron fans want to see history made again, and see the media select a sub-55 win player to get the MVP. It's really not the best argument.


SA37: How can you possibly argue that CP is a more complete player than Kobe? Kobe can guard the opposing team's best PG/SG/SF. CP cannot do that. Advantage Kobe in the defense department. Do you think CP is going to get 1st Team NBA D? Kobe can manufacture a shot a lot better than CP can. It's not a knock on CP, but Kobe is among the top 3 in manufacturing his own shot. And he's among the top 3 in his position as a defender. How is CP even comparable in terms of completeness?

[NO-KG-AI]

The thing is, Chris Paul is a pure PG, and a playmaker that can't be measured statistically. Oh yeah, he's better statistically too.

[eatyourchildren]

The thing is, Chris Paul is a pure PG, and a playmaker that can't be measured statistically. Oh yeah, he's better statistically too.

You forget that Kobe is a playmaker, just not in the conventional ball-dominant sense. Go back a few pages and read what Van Gundy said TWICE on national television about Kobe making plays possible because the defense overloads on the side where Kobe is, allowing the weakside offense to run simple backdoor cuts.

Kobe is a much better defender at his position than CP is. This is not in doubt. Kobe is a MUCH better man-on defender and arguably a better help defender. CP dives into passing lanes, but Kobe is one of the best at cheating off his man to disrupt a play.

Kobe can guard AI, Kobe can guard Joe Johnson, Kobe can guard TMac. And he does it while being the focal scorer on the other end.

Is any of this recorded in the statistics? No. Is it just as important, if not more important? Yes.

[Patterns]

The thing is, Chris Paul is a pure PG, and a playmaker that can't be measured statistically. Oh yeah, he's better statistically too.

Kobe does things that don't show up on the stats sheet. Kobe attracts attention when he's on one side of the court, freeing space on the other side where Gasol/Odom, Gasol/3pt shooter can go to work.

There has been only one constant force for the Lakers the whole season: Kobe.

Odom played like crap in the beginning of the season. Our bench has been quiet the second half. With Bynum, they had the best record. With Pau, they had the best record. And now, without both, they still have the best record.

I love Paul but his team didn't have any serious injuries.

[semi-sentient]

His play and his team's play merit more than that. If you can't see that then I would say you're missing out...

Don't mistake my meaning. I've stated several times in this very thread the award comes down to Kobe or CP3, and neither would be the wrong choice.

After tonight, I see Kobe as having the edge from here on out, unless the Hornets finish the season with a better record, meaning they would have done that by playing through a tougher schedule. Of course, certain circumstances could arise that impacts both teams, but all things being equal, this is Kobe's award to lose.

[semi-sentient]

Ariza and Mihm are barely rotation players in L.A. when healthy.

I'm sure others have pointed this out already, but Ariza was a significant contributor prior to his injury. He brought great slashing and energy, and his defense is far, far better than Walton's, who you'll note is logging decent minutes and contributing next to nothing.

As for Mihm, yes, he's barely a rotation player, but that's primarily because Bynum and Kwame were producing areas that he could not. Never underestimate the importance of size though, particularly since a healthy Mihm is considerably better than our current reserve, Mbenga. Our bigs have been hit hardest, so Mihm would have been pretty valuable if healthy.