now we have a problem !!

[celticsboy34]

let me start off by saying that this is not a overreacting "panic" post . i am not the typical fan that panics after a lost , however after watching this team perfomance in the 4th quarter against the hornets and tonights game, it is very clear that we have some problems that we need to fixed within the next 12 games if we want to have success in the playoffs.

let me clarify that i was very excited when pj and sam cassell came to this team, but now after a few weeks, im not so sure that they are ready to take away some of the minutes of players like eddie house, glen davis and even perkins.

i dont know about you guys but i think that when sam cassell comes into the game the whole pace of the game changes because he is not as agressive as rondo and he starts to take too many shots which and hes missing most of them.( he only made them during the game at san antonio). I also feel that he is not playing with the right people on the court, i feel that for sam to be effective he has to be in the floor with guys like pierce , garnett and allen instead of powe , baby, tony allen and house.

another thing that concerns me is the rotations that doc had been using in the past few games , i know that he is trying to experiment but i think that by now he should try to set a rotation and try to develop as much chemistry and rythm as possible before the postseason

if you guys go back to early in the season when we where playing really solid basketball, doc was always playing garnett and ray or garnett and paul in the second unit with 3 bench playersand that is the reason why we never saw such a letdown as the one from today or the one from saturday against the hornets. he will always substitute ray for paul or paul for ray in order to get each other some rest.

last but not least turnovers , we have to take care of this issue really quick, enough bs with the resting and skipping practices.

i know it is hard for doc to develop and set a rotation and also try to fit pj and sam into the system but i think its time to stop experimenting because it may cost us more games just like tonight against philly.

my perfect rotation will be

take out ray/pierce at the 4: 00 mark and put eddie house
take out kg perk and rondo at the 2 min mark and put leon posey and sam in the game
start the second quarter with ray/pierce , leon ,posey, sam, and eddie house
at the 9:00 min of the 2nd quarter bring garnett back and rondo back
and at the 8 min bring pierce ray and at the 6:45 bring perkins back

use tony allen and baby depending on matchups , i dont think that pj brown is capable of giving us more than leon or baby at this time

[Datruth345]

for my own sanity, i refuse to post in this thread (after this of course)

[GoGoCeltics]

55-15

You can claim it's not a reactionary post, but it is.

[RoyHobbs]

55-15

You can claim it's not a reactionary post, but it is.

I think the issue with rotations is an important one to consider. If those rotations lead to lessened chemistry going into the playoffs, it could really hurt our chances.

I personally don't like the wholesale "5 bench players at a time" lineups, because those aren't the lineups that will be getting play in the playoffs. I think it's important to get Sam and P.J. minutes, but it needs to be in situations similar to what they're going to be seeing in the playoffs. Throwing out relatively random lineups doesn't do a lot of good, other than getting simple repetitions.

I don't blame tonight's loss on those rotations, but I do worry about the potential effect on chemistry going forward.

[celticsfan559]

omg, we lost 2 games in a row, its the end of the world.

[dwestside]

I actually don't know that it's fair to denounce the thread as reactionary just because he's sighting a couple concerns after a loss. This wasn't that other poster who literally wrote two sentences.

My feeling about Sam is that he honestly doesn't know what's going on in the offense still. I didn't think they had a practice since they acquired him, though I could be wrong on this ...

EDIT: Though I'm realizing now that the TITLE is reactionary ...

[Bigmiketruth]

I personally don't like the wholesale "5 bench players at a time" lineups

x2

[MyInsatiableOne]

And again, since we are in the East we have the luxury of having a bit of breathing room to tinker toward the end of the season to be fine-tuned for the playoffs. If we were in the West, *then* we'd have issues

[kghatestolose]

They are 55-15 and leading the league. And 5 up on the nearest east competitor Right now they are on coast and playing with a few options because, really...the wins don't matter. Now is the time to see what other options are available in terms of line ups, new players...

A win against Philly meant something to Philly, it mean nothing to Celtics

[RoyHobbs]

They are 55-15 and leading the league. And 5 up on the nearest east competitor Right now they are on coast and playing with a few options because, really...the wins don't matter. Now is the time to see what other options are available in terms of line ups, new players...

A win against Philly meant something to Philly, it mean nothing to Celtics

First, losing breeds losing. Pile up enough losses, and it starts to undermine a team's confidence. I really don't get this "wins mean nothing" attitude that many seem to have. Of course wins mean something, as do losses.

Second, if Doc was focusing on Cassell and P.J., sure, work them in. However, when he's experimenting with odd lineups that have five bench players, playing out of position, what good does that do? Do you really expect to see the KG / Posey / Tony / House / Cassell lineup in the playoffs? That's not "tinkering", that's wasting the 48 minutes you're given in a game on stupid lineups.

I don't think the tinkering had much to do with last night's loss, at all. However, if it's something that continues down the stretch -- and Doc said it will be -- that has the potential to disrupt a good thing that was working perfectly for the first 65+ games. There's no reason to resort to pre-season lineups at this point; the time for full-fledged experimenting is done, and now it should be solely about fine-tuning.

[MyInsatiableOne]

-= original quote snipped =-



First, losing breeds losing.

This is what teams who suck think...not great teams like us. It's 2 losses against two hot teams after a mentally and physically draining Texas Triangle roadie...relax!!!!!!

However, I disagree with the previous poster that the win meant something for Philly but would've been meaningless for Boston. You ALWAYS hate to lose to certain teams (LA, NY, Philly) no matter what. And Philly is a rival you always hate losing too, even if it doesn't count, so to speak.

[RoyHobbs]

-= original quote snipped =-



This is what teams who suck think...not great teams like us. It's 2 losses against two hot teams after a mentally and physically draining Texas Triangle roadie...relax!!!!!!

Read the next part of my quote, that talks about "pil[ing] up enough losses". This is only a concern if it continues to happen. However, by making wholesale rotation changes at this point, that increases the likelihood of disrupting chemistry and accumulating more losses, which undermines confidence at the most important time of the year.

I'm not panicking, and I doubt many fans are. However, it's at least something to be minorly concerned about; I don't get the "there's nothing to see here, move along" mentality that so many fans are affected by. The time to address minor issues is when they're minor, not after they've spun out of control.

[MyInsatiableOne]

I guess so...maybe I could buy it if we lost 3-4 games in a row, but two in a row, especially given the teams they were against and following a brutal week through Texas...I'll sleep easy, for now.

[Fencer reregistered]

The team has three practices scheduled before the next game. If Cassell is still a liability for more than about one game after that, THEN I'll worry.

[rayofsunshine]

You just need to work your new guys in, it takes time.

[Fencer reregistered]

You just need to work your new guys in, it takes time.

Doc isn't the greatest of teachers. The things he's done right don't negate that apparent fact.

Let's hope this weakness of his doesn't have serious consequences.

[celticfan42487]

wait was this the same Cassell that was a godsend in SA that were talking about?

We haven't played well in DAL,NO, or Philly. With Philly looking like Kevin Garnett didn't even care about the game.

But it's the bench and we need to develop them. It isn't exaclty like anyone is going to go into next season and say gee we should trade for Leon Powe he's a great player! Or how bout that Big Baby he can lead us to the promise land! AND no one worries about Tony Allen when he plays the first 40 seconds poorly... tony's probuly still hurt.

Sam and PJ are good roleplayers, and with Ray Allen and/or Pierce/KG that's exaclty what they will be.

[tombattor]

Calm down. We are fine. Doc's trying to see how the bench players play together. We have a huge lead in the standings. We have the luxury to do that. We'll still finish with 60 wins and the home court throughout.

Once the playoffs starts, we will see at least 1 of the big 3 in the game at all times and probably 2 most of the time. What Doc needs to do is keep everyone playing hard to stay sharp while giving the big 3 short minutes to keep them fresh. I'd like to see their minutes south of 30, but as long as none of the 3 play over 35 any more, we'll be fine.

[RoyHobbs]

Doc's trying to see how the bench players play together.

If those bench players are going to be playing together in the playoffs, fine. However, Doc has said that isn't going to be the case. I'd rather he focus on bench combos that he might actually use in a game.

Plus, where was P.J. last night, if the focus is going to be on getting guys ready for the playoffs?

[sully00]

You guys are hilarious. Doc has rubbed all of your expert noses in it for 60 some odd games. But it is the two games that he obviously was experimenting with lineups that prove you right.

The bench get out to the lead I think Doc planned on letting them have the 4th quarter like he did in the Clipper game. He didn't see them coughing up an 11 point lead like they had built on a 14-3 run. And it wasn't like he could have done anything about it KG and the other starters were gasoline on the fire when they came into the game anyhow they just diidn't plan on coming back in.

That is the risk you take when experiment with lineups with a different goal and focus than winning that game. The effort and intensity that this team played with all season affords them this opportunity. Doc is going to learn more about guys when they are being played straight up in the 4th quarter opposed to be wide open because the defense is over committing to the other guys on the floor in the first half.