Time To See Or Showcase J.J. Redick

[BassMaster]

JJ redick just sucks at the NBA level. Barley even gets his shot off. Just trade him for a late `1st rounder...kuz hes trash.

Wow I guess you don't like Redick and it really does show.
What do you give money to the website thetruthaboutduke a website by a Terrapin who hates Duke.

[MagicNolesFSU]

bro i dont know what your prob is but I LOVED JJ is college. JJ was one of my fav players. But that doesnt mean im going to be blind when it comes to the NBA level. Hes garbage. Maybe a second round pick. Hes slow, cant jump, isnt athletic, and barley gets his shot off on NBA defense. Hes garbage. Sorry to be real.

[craig01]

Cougar,

Separation is created by the player.

This is the NBA.

Screens can help, and yes, some teams run and/or depend on them more than others depending on what their philosophy is.

It isn't a matter of better coaching as to whether or not a team does or does not depend on them. It's simply a matter of a coach deciding on player and team strengths and developing an offensive philosophy around them.

The Magic are not one of the teams that runs many screens. The Magic team strengths are a dominant big, and an abundance of spot up 3 pt shooters. No slashers, no great off the ball players in the rotation.

The offense is set up to shoot 3's and get the ball to Howard. It works here, so that's good coaching.

Therefore, with the Magic, separation must come from the player.

Setting up multiple screens for a last option on offense would completely take the strengths away from the Magic offense.

BTW- It is the ATHLETIC quickness of Hamilton that allows him to flourish off of screens. You don't really believe Redick would be as effective as Hamilton if they traded places?

[MagicNolesFSU]

BTW- It is the ATHLETIC quickness of Hamilton that allows him to flourish off of screens. You don't really believe Redick would be as effective as Hamilton if they traded places?

This is the problem. They believe he can be as effective...and its just not true. JJ isnt anywhere NEAR the player Hamilton is

[BassMaster]

bro i dont know what your prob is but I LOVED JJ is college. JJ was one of my fav players. But that doesnt mean im going to be blind when it comes to the NBA level. Hes garbage. Maybe a second round pick. Hes slow, cant jump, isnt athletic, and barley gets his shot off on NBA defense. Hes garbage. Sorry to be real.

So you weren't one of the many FSU fans who cursed JJ and threw things at the Duke team whenever they played at FSU??????

[MagicNolesFSU]

-= original quote snipped =-



So you weren't one of the many FSU fans who cursed JJ and threw things at the Duke team whenever they played at FSU??????

Thats your basis for judging me? Because i attend Florida State?

[BassMaster]

-= original quote snipped =-



Thats your basis for judging me? Because i attend Florida State?

Not judging I just asked a question which I noticed that you ignored. So your answer about JJ is what???????

[MagicNolesFSU]

Uh i didnt even go to the game....so no, i wasnt.

Not judging I just asked a question which I noticed that you ignored. So your answer about JJ is what???????

wow I guess you don't like Redick and it really does show.

and this^^^^^constitutes judging in case you failed to realize.

[maginno]

J will go somewhere else get his shot and bury the Magic in at least one game. Its the destiny of the Magic. I can think of no team that has had more players emerge after they have left. Doesn't mean he will be great but he'll get minutes somewhere else.

I don't think there is a JJ thread where some silly person doesn't pretend to know that JJ will never make it in the league. Sensible people know that there simply is not enough evidence in minutes to make a claim for or against. Stats indicate that every time so far he has got double digit minutes he's produced how that will translate over more games is uncertain but it is a promising stat.

At the end of the day since it Stan's decision to not play JJ we have to go with his explanation and only his explanation. Stan has never said JJ can't play in this league. He 's merely said that JJ provides what is already on the team in outside shooting.

Although I must say I find it amusing to see Gato berate JJ having just had a thread where he claimed that JJ was a good pick and therefore should be a plus in Otis' corner. Orlando Magic Realgm board - never ceases to amaze.

[BassMaster]

J will go somewhere else get his shot and bury the Magic in at least one game. Its the destiny of the Magic. I can think of no team that has had more players emerge after they have left. Doesn't mean he will be great but he'll get minutes somewhere else.

I don't think there is a JJ thread where some silly person doesn't pretend to know that JJ will never make it in the league. Sensible people know that there simply is not enough evidence in minutes to make a claim for or against. Stats indicate that every time so far he has got double digit minutes he's produced how that will translate over more games is uncertain but it is a promising stat.

At the end of the day since it Stan's decision to not play JJ we have to go with his explanation and only his explanation. Stan has never said JJ can't play in this league. He 's merely said that JJ provides what is already on the team in outside shooting.

Although I must say I find it amusing to see Gato berate JJ having just had a thread where he claimed that JJ was a good pick and therefore should be a plus in Otis' corner. Orlando Magic Realgm board - never ceases to amaze.

Nice to see you back that was some long weekend.

[maginno]

Yep. Hic.... Wish I could remember it

[theTHIEF]

i think i saw enough of him this evening...

[mhectorgato]

Although I must say I find it amusing to see Gato berate JJ having just had a thread where he claimed that JJ was a good pick and therefore should be a plus in Otis' corner. Orlando Magic Realgm board - never ceases to amaze.

I'm sorry if I didn't spell it out simply enough in this thread, I thought I had.

I said that the players before JJ in the rotation offer more than he does. I said that our style of offense is not suited for him. I also said that JJ may not be one of the college guys whose game doesn't translate to the NBA (though it may be a possibility).

Not sure how this is berating JJ ....

[orl1724]

Funny thought 1: That LA would even consider trading Walton for JJ

Funny thought 2: That some one on the board said no to taking back Walton.
Wow.

That happens a lot on this board. I remember people here saying no to a Hedo for Aldrige trade, also a Hedo for Wilcox and Watson. We tend to value our players too much and value other players way too little.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

Ok... How about point distribution? The Orlando Magic rank a pathetic 28th (out of 30) in bench scoring. The only team that is worse than that in this category are the lowly Charlotte Bobcats. So what does this all mean? The Magic offense is pretty much dependent on the starters, which will have an effect come playoff time.

Take the Lakers for example. Not only do they have the 4th ranked offense, but they are also ranked 5th in bench scoring. This will pay huge dividends in the playoffs this year. Chalk that up to Phil Jackson because he knows how to use all of the players on the bench, not just his starters.

SVG is an okay coach, he just lacks imagination on the offensive end.

Team defense is much more of a coach thing than a player thing... Yeah, there are some players who happen to be better individual defenders than other players. But its the coach that instills a "team defense" mindset and gets the players to rotate and help.

The teams that win championships aren't the ones who have 1 or 2 good defenders. They're the teams that play solid, aggressive, and stingy, team defense... Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, and Lakers are all examples of teams in the modern era that have played smothering team defense.

[BassMaster]

Yep. Hic.... Wish I could remember it

Hope you had a great time I can see your problem with another who loves to only take a small part of what some one says and then spins to fit something else.

So how much do you remember of your long weekend

[sportsrock37]

Alright guys. The reason why Hornacek and Kerr were so successful was because they had a defensive stopper playing right alongside them(Byron Russell and Ron Harper/MJ/Pippen), so their lack of defense didn't really affect the team that much. Right now we would have Jameer Nelson and Hedo Turkoglu playing the PG/SF. With our current starting lineup, we depend on our SG to give us the defensive stopper. We have an offense scoring option at PG, SF, PF, and C, so why the hell would we have another offensive scoring option at SG????? Unless you want to bench Turkoglu for JJ(which I forgot who said it, but someone said they would in the offseason and a couple of people agreed).

Now about the comparisons to Kapono and Korver. Kapono is 6'8 and can shoot over people. Korver is 6'6, so he can shoot over some of the smaller players. Kapono has guys like Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker who are good defenders playing alongside him and Korver is playing alongside Andrei Kirilenko and Ronnie Brewer.

No, no... you totally missed my point. If the NBA summer league is an indicator of how good a guy like Kobe could become -- well then -- it also has to be the same for a player like J.J. Yeah, there is no way J.J. compares to Kobe. But that is why I've used names like Mullin, Hodges, Paxton, Kerr, etc.

The NBA summer league was an indicator of what Kobe was going to become? Last I checked Kobe is an amazing defender and can create his shot, 2 things that JJ can't do. JJ is pretty much strictly a shooter. He is best suited coming off of screens and like it has been said teams don't typically run many plays for their 4th or 5th option very often.

And, for that bit about Redick being an unknown, he's only an "unknown" because the Magic organization doesn't have a clear plan for their future. Its almost like they're just making it up as they go. They want guys who play good defense, but they trade Ariza to LA. They have one of the most dominant post players in the league who gets double-teamed on a regular basis, but they don't surround him with perimeter players. Oh well...

If J.J. doesn't fit the team's style then trade him or cut him loose. Don't let a good young talent just languish on the bench.

First off, i can't believe no one jumped on him for this comment. Are you kidding me with the bold portion of your post? How many Magic games have you watched? You do realize that we are on pace to become a top 3 3 point shooting team in terms of makes in NBA history? Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu, Mo Evans, Brian Cook, Keith Bogans, Jameer Nelson? Basically every player on our roster other than Dwight and Foyle can flat out shoot the ball.

[MagicNolesFSU]

Yeah i saw that last part, but its not worth arguing with JJ homers. They just dont cant see it objectively and some, like the one you quoted dont even know what they are talking about.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

First of all sportsrock, that's a pretty big stretch to say that these great shooters were successful only because they had great defenders playing by their side.

Like I said before, great teams will play great team defense, its not dependent on 1 or 2 guys. Its about getting the whole team to buy in to a defensive mindset.

Hmmm... no scoring from your shooting guard? That makes perfect sense. On great teams, all players are used in the offensive scheme... its a thing called balanced scoring. You know, a motion/screening offense doesn't cater to any one player. It actually will open up opportunities for every player on the floor. Also, if a team can get a significant scoring boost from their bench it gives them a greater advantage in the playoffs. The Magic rank 2nd to last in this category.

Okay. So, what about Kerr, Paxton, and Hodges? None of those guys were much taller than 6-2. J.J. is 6-4 and can get his shot off no problem. The issue here is not how tall a shooter is or if he plays with a great defensive player. The guy has to be given a chance to succeed or fail. So far he has not failed... but he has shown some success in the very limited amount of playing time he has received the last two seasons.

[lovehoops01]

And, for that bit about Redick being an unknown, he's only an "unknown" because the Magic organization doesn't have a clear plan for their future. Its almost like they're just making it up as they go. They want guys who play good defense, but they trade Ariza to LA. They have one of the most dominant post players in the league who gets double-teamed on a regular basis, but they don't surround him with perimeter players. Oh well...

If J.J. doesn't fit the team's style then trade him or cut him loose. Don't let a good young talent just languish on the bench.

Some of that happens because the Magic keep changing their GMs and coaches. They start going on one plan, then they bring someone else in for the management team, and that person has different philosophies about their players and how they want things to operate.

Doc was the coach. They fired him and replaced him with Johnny Davis. Then they fired Gabe. Then Weisbrod was the GM. Then Weisbrod fired Johnny Davis. Then Weisbrod was fired/resigned. Then Otis and Dave took over the GM responsibilities. Then Brian Hill was fired. Then they hired Stan. All of those people bring with them a certain idea of how the team should be run. When you are changing one of them at least once a year, it messes with the players who you have selected and your core. When I have talked about consistency in the past, that is part of what I mean. The biggest mistake I thought they made was rehiring Hill in the first place, and I'm guessing ownership had a lot to do with that. It put a wait-and-see in the process that confused it and just delayed progress.

I'm guessing that Otis probably still liked Trevor and saw him as part of the core, but Stan wasn't going to play him so he gave in to Stan's wishes and traded Trevor since Van Gundy is the guy who has to coach the team and is expected to win with the roster. That's why it will be important for Stan and Otis to agree on their draft pick this year. Who knows, it could be part of a trade for an experienced vet, which wouldn't really surprise me. It seems that maybe Van Gundy would prefer to have some experience around Dwight and Jameer since they expect him to be successful, while Otis was willing to try it with a younger group. But I disagree with the person who said Van Gundy cannot teach young players. He did a very good job with that down in Miami.

Also, I do think the injury to Battie has hurt J.J.'s chances of playing more this year. Battie is a stronger defensive player than having Cook, Turkoglu or Lewis as the backup power forward so if the guards get by, they will have a better chance of being stopped. And Turk and Lewis are more accustomed to having screens set for them than setting the screens themselves. Battie is good at it. If J.J. remains in Orlando next season and Battie is back healthy, his return alone could help J.J. see more court time.