Your avatar is awesome BTW.
And stop checking out my junk.
OT: The Onion on Yi
Moderators: floppymoose, Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair
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St.Nick
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Sleepy, have you ever considered writing for Wikipedia? They are always looking for amateur know it all hacks that will drone on and on about obscure and often times irrelevant topics 
Just kidding, that really was interesting and informative. By the way, what do you think of the stand-up incident involving Michael Richards, aka Kramer?
It shocked me, but I don't understand why it was such a huge deal. Some frustrated actor/comedian who's glory days are long gone gets heckled, loses his cool, and says stuff he shouldn't have. Happens all the time, but instead of him calling the guy an "a-hole" or something like this, he drops a few N Bombs.
Next thing you know he is public enemy number one for every minority rights group in America, his career is officially over, and he's getting sued by the poor man in the audience (doing the heckling) who's feelings were hurt.
Only in America.
Just kidding, that really was interesting and informative. By the way, what do you think of the stand-up incident involving Michael Richards, aka Kramer?
It shocked me, but I don't understand why it was such a huge deal. Some frustrated actor/comedian who's glory days are long gone gets heckled, loses his cool, and says stuff he shouldn't have. Happens all the time, but instead of him calling the guy an "a-hole" or something like this, he drops a few N Bombs.
Next thing you know he is public enemy number one for every minority rights group in America, his career is officially over, and he's getting sued by the poor man in the audience (doing the heckling) who's feelings were hurt.
Only in America.
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St.Nick
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BTW, as long as we are off topic...Sleepy, have you ever read an author named Carl Hiaasen? I'm reading one of his books now which is set in Florida and it mocks the hell out of the state--the rednecks, Disney, tourists, Cubans-- its all there. The writer has also got a bit of an environmentalist tilt, so I thought you might have heard of him.
Anyways, Florida sounds like a wacky place to be. I may just have to check it out one day.
Anyways, Florida sounds like a wacky place to be. I may just have to check it out one day.
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Sleepy51
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Richards?
Well . . . there's was certainly nothing funny, familar or affectionate about his tirade, and it seemed pretty clearly intended to wound. I think his career suicide was met with totally appropriate public scorn (though certainly sensasionalized by the press.) People are free in this country to be and speak as assininely as they choose, and other people are free to judge them for it. Free speech ain't free.
I did feel genuinelly bad for him hearing his apologies on various talk shows. He pretty clearly felt awful at himself and was upset at what came out of him in a fit of rage. I don't think he enjoyed getting to know that part of himself and has probably grown through some introspection looking back at what he did and why. Pain is indicitive of growth.
If he hadn't appeared so clearly shaken by the experience and regretful, I would probably have a lot stronger feelings about him. But, as it played out, I get the sense that he's not a bad guy, and probably has no consious interest in harming or limiting the opportunities of black people - which is the racism that actually matters to me. People can think, feel and ultimately say whatever hateful crap they want until they try to ACT on it or encourage others to act on it in a way that gets in the way of someone's life/rights.
He just said some really awful stuff. I can watch Seinfeld still (but I only find Jason Alexander and Julia LouisDreyfus at all entertaining - that was always the case.) The natural next question of course is "what if a black comic . . . " or comparison to Chris Rock's "N####'s vs. Black people" routine. It's apples to oranges. Neither Rock, nor the most ignorant Kat Williams type of minstrel show performer is losing control and lambasting audience members with personal insults fixating on their race. Social observations couched in irreverent humor (even crappy irreverent humor) or just plain old clowing for dollars isn't the same thing as what weapons you choose to attack people with when you are angry. Kramer wasn't "performing" in stage character during his tirade. He was unleashing an ugly hateful part of his genuine self (a part that he's probably worked pretty hard to understand and then excorcize since the incident.)
As far as a lawsuit? Sure, why not. We sue people for everything in this contry (see Chris Cohan.) I'd wouldn't bat an eyelash at the folks in attendance suing him for the cost of the ticket to the show and the two drink minimum. Other than that, there are no real damages. Punative damages? None necessary. Career suicide cost him all the money one could hope for in punative damages. Guilt of intentionally causing emotional distress or whatever, and a jury award of maybe $60 bucks per offended patron interested in collecting? That sounds fair to me.
I would be interested in hearing what the actor who played Jackie Childs (a black caricature written by the decidely non-black Larry David & Jerry Sienfeld) had to say about it. Not being able to play Jackie Childs in any upcomming Kramer spin off show pretty much torpedoed that guy's career. I'm sure he's either REALLY pissed at Kramer, or pissed at whomever taped the disaster at the Improv.
Well . . . there's was certainly nothing funny, familar or affectionate about his tirade, and it seemed pretty clearly intended to wound. I think his career suicide was met with totally appropriate public scorn (though certainly sensasionalized by the press.) People are free in this country to be and speak as assininely as they choose, and other people are free to judge them for it. Free speech ain't free.
I did feel genuinelly bad for him hearing his apologies on various talk shows. He pretty clearly felt awful at himself and was upset at what came out of him in a fit of rage. I don't think he enjoyed getting to know that part of himself and has probably grown through some introspection looking back at what he did and why. Pain is indicitive of growth.
If he hadn't appeared so clearly shaken by the experience and regretful, I would probably have a lot stronger feelings about him. But, as it played out, I get the sense that he's not a bad guy, and probably has no consious interest in harming or limiting the opportunities of black people - which is the racism that actually matters to me. People can think, feel and ultimately say whatever hateful crap they want until they try to ACT on it or encourage others to act on it in a way that gets in the way of someone's life/rights.
He just said some really awful stuff. I can watch Seinfeld still (but I only find Jason Alexander and Julia LouisDreyfus at all entertaining - that was always the case.) The natural next question of course is "what if a black comic . . . " or comparison to Chris Rock's "N####'s vs. Black people" routine. It's apples to oranges. Neither Rock, nor the most ignorant Kat Williams type of minstrel show performer is losing control and lambasting audience members with personal insults fixating on their race. Social observations couched in irreverent humor (even crappy irreverent humor) or just plain old clowing for dollars isn't the same thing as what weapons you choose to attack people with when you are angry. Kramer wasn't "performing" in stage character during his tirade. He was unleashing an ugly hateful part of his genuine self (a part that he's probably worked pretty hard to understand and then excorcize since the incident.)
As far as a lawsuit? Sure, why not. We sue people for everything in this contry (see Chris Cohan.) I'd wouldn't bat an eyelash at the folks in attendance suing him for the cost of the ticket to the show and the two drink minimum. Other than that, there are no real damages. Punative damages? None necessary. Career suicide cost him all the money one could hope for in punative damages. Guilt of intentionally causing emotional distress or whatever, and a jury award of maybe $60 bucks per offended patron interested in collecting? That sounds fair to me.
I would be interested in hearing what the actor who played Jackie Childs (a black caricature written by the decidely non-black Larry David & Jerry Sienfeld) had to say about it. Not being able to play Jackie Childs in any upcomming Kramer spin off show pretty much torpedoed that guy's career. I'm sure he's either REALLY pissed at Kramer, or pissed at whomever taped the disaster at the Improv.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
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floppymoose
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floppymoose
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Sleepy51
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St.Nick wrote:BTW, as long as we are off topic...Sleepy, have you ever read an author named Carl Hiaasen? I'm reading one of his books now which is set in Florida and it mocks the hell out of the state--the rednecks, Disney, tourists, Cubans-- its all there. The writer has also got a bit of an environmentalist tilt, so I thought you might have heard of him.
Anyways, Florida sounds like a wacky place to be. I may just have to check it out one day.
FLA is weird. I'm mostly in metropolitan Miami, or Boca for work and the people I've met down here. The energy in Miami is intense. It's like someone took West LA and South Central and dropped them deep in the Yucatan somewhere. It's hard to recognize this as the US at times, but I like it. It is a very international city. for me as a black person it's been very interesting to get to know the whole carribean aspect of our culture. We forget about these people in California . . . the black experience on the west coast gets so far detached from anything but US roots.
The rest of the south Florida metroplex is a weird combination of middle class cracker(not an insult down here - I SWEAR), bonafied trailer trash (that one is as insult) thrid world latin/carribean, latin/carribean middle class (lots of "folk" buying homes and running businesses down here - nice to see) and a whole lot of elderly New Yorkers (not a Jewish slur) who can't drive.
It's all totally flat which is weird. The only hills in 100 miles are the landfills. Kind of like a million square miles of San Leandro minus the asians.
Never heard of that author. I'll check it out.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
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Sleepy51
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floppymoose wrote:That's interesting... I never thought of Jackie Childs as a black caricature - I just saw him as the ambulance chaser caricature who happened to be black. I think that whole shtick would have worked with any race of actor?
Jackie Childs as a "black charciature" wasn't meant to imply that it was a hostile or demeaning charicature. It was like one of those street artist drawings. It was meant to be funny. I guess the blackness of the character was of some significance because he was pretty much the only recurring black person in the Seinfeld universe - a source of much consternation to a number of black comics over the years. I mean, they lived in New York and the only black person they knew or even had walk on the set was Jackie? C'mon . . .
Larry David is hilarious though. He can write all the black caricatures he wants, because he's funny and he seems to mean no harm. He wrote Wanda (a Chris Rock discovery) into his HBO sitcom as his neighbor and wife's friend. Her entire character was a running joke about how there were no black people in Seinfeld world. Larry David should have played Jerry himself and Jerry should be have been the frustrated no-talent hack blowing a gasket at a bunch of Chinese hecklers at the Improv.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
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