Important Poll--Nuggets Backcourt Starters

[Nuggets 24/7]

If you know about this subject, please vote in this poll. Comments are very welcome, but don't forget to vote. Chucky Atkins is not in the choices because the question refers to which backcourt was best during when Atkins was not available due to a hernia.

Thank you for voting in this poll and thanks for any comments on this crucial subject.

[airchibundo507]

point forward - melo
shooting guard - smith
small forward - klieza

[MELO4MVP]

point forward - melo
shooting guard - smith
small forward - klieza

[Nuggetsfanduh98]

I voted for AC and AI only because I think he is so good off the bench. When AI and Melo get tired he comes in and provides instant scoring. Which is exactly what we need. I am not saying if he starts I will be made because I will not be. Either way though he is making a HUGH difference to our team.

[M.Balla]

AI+AC

Now let me explain it. I like JR in the second unit, he gives this team a spark, and there's enough offense in the starting lineup. But AC should play a Royal-Ivey-on-the-Hawks-role. That means, he's starting, but he shouldn't play more than 10~15 minutes, and he shouldn't see floor time on crunch, unless it's a blowout, he's having an ON night, and someone's having an OFF night.

[denvers_finest]

point forward - melo
shooting guard - smith
small forward - klieza

HAHA, you have absolutely no clue what your talking about do you?

Any way, I voted AC/AI. I think the AI/JR backcourt has probably been more productive from a numbers standpoint, but I like the idea of JR coming in as a 6th man and providing us some providing some production from the bench. I tthink he tends to play better with the backups in because he is allowed more freedom with the ball, as opposed to having to defer to Melo/AI.

[noone]

I would definitely go with AI/JR with AI/Diawara second and AI/AC third.

Iverson and JR is the best starting unit for obvious reasons. Teams sag off Carter and make it tougher for Iverson and Melo to get in the lane and also tougher for Melo to get the inlet in the post. It's also important Denver gets off to a good start to a game especially in the playoffs, and that's hard to do when you have already have 2 inconsistent and limited offensive players in Martin and Camby starting. Add Carter to the mix and it could lead to disaster. He's inconsistent at best (and not even really that good at it) at hitting jumpers. Hence, you only have 2 guys (Iverson and Melo) that can truly take advantage of other teams' cheating or mismatches which is extremely important in the playoffs.

The playoffs are all about taking advantage of mismatches and opposing teams' weaknesses. A starting lineup up Carter/Iverson/Melo/Martin/Camby has far too many weaknesses themselves on offense that very good teams (every team in the West playoffs) will be able to exploit.

Having JR in there will help spread the floor more for Melo and Iverson and give the Nuggets another major threat in the offense. If they leave JR open, he'll kill the opposing team with 3's. If they close out on him (run at him), he'll drive to the rim and put up a good shot or find an open man. I didn't have confidence in him earlier in the season, but in the past month I think he's proven himself capable and trustable.

Also, how many teams in the league, let alone playoffs, have 3 good enough defenders in the starting lineup to cover Iverson, Melo, and Smith. It's a pick your poison situation. Now obviously Smith is not as much of a threat as Melo and Iverson and I don't want to overrate him, but he is a MUCH bigger threat than Carter. With Carter in the lineup, you couldn't even dream of having this scenario.

And that's only offense.

Defensively, Carter is a huge liability defending SG. It worked for the most part in the regular season, but in the playoffs teams will be looking to exploit him. Just think back to the last Lakers game when the game plan was to double down on Kobe because Carter wouldn't be able to handle him. It failed. Horribly. The last thing anyone wants to see is Carter pitted against the likes of Kobe, Tmac, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson/Davis in the playoffs.

JR may not be as smart/savvy of a defender, but that's easily made up by his height and quickness. On top of that JR is a better rebounder and has his moments of great defense. With him in the lineup, the Nuggets would also no longer have to devise a game plan to overcome Carter's inability to guard opposing SG. Overall, JR is the best defender.

And now especially with Nene coming back, JR isn't needed as much to provide scoring off the bench anymore. Bringing in Kleiza and Nene together would be far more sufficient imo. It allows Nene to get more looks when he comes off the bench as opposed to JR coming in with him.

It's also obvious Karl wants Kleiza to get his 15 minutes, so as to not limit JR's minutes on the floor, bring in Carter sparingly as you need him. I think it's obvious to most that he brings the least to the table, so instead of guaranteeing him 16-18 minutes of game time to start the halves, give those to JR and give Carter minutes as needed instead of JR since he's the bigger threat. Bring Carter in situations the team isn't playing under control (ball movement, etc), there's a matchup that favors Carter defensively, or JR/Kleiza aren't playing well.

I think I've covered most of the bases, but another option would be to start the player based on matchups. If you're playing Phoenix in the playoffs, start Carter as Iverson can cover Bell and Carter did an excellent job on Nash the last game. If you're playing Houston, GS, SA, or LA, start JR.

[noone]

Also, I'd go with Diawara over Carter mainly for defensive purposes. There's no explanation needed for that.

Offensively, Diawara is as good a shooter from the 3, and Diawara looks to pass the ball as much as Carter does. Carter has the slight advantage, but not as much as Diawara does on the defensive end, imo.

[el loco]

I am going AC, but only because of how late in the season it is. I don't want the team tinkering with lineup to much right now. It would be ideal if we did it according to matchups, but that would make to much sense.


I was wrong. JR needs Carter's minutes and Carter needs JR's or some of them split up with Atkins.

[elbowthrower]

I like JR coming off the bench but he needs to come in around the 9 or 10 minute mark, especially if the Nugs are struggling.

[noone]

I like JR coming off the bench but he needs to come in around the 9 or 10 minute mark, especially if the Nugs are struggling.

If he's coming in that early, what's the point in bringing him off the bench at all, just start him. And no coach would make his rotations that he has a player coming in after 2-3 minutes of game time. But JR definitely shouldn't be coming in a second after the 6 minute mark. 22+ minutes for Carter is unacceptable. Especially in the playoffs when the rotations shorten.

And I'm surprised that after the last game, people haven't changed their votes to JR.

Edit: In 5 of the last 6 games, Denver has gotten down big in the first quarter. And go figure, the two teams that we weren't able to recover for the win were against Detroit and Philly, both playing great basketball. And guess what kind of teams we'll be seeing in the playoffs. I think it goes without saying that something needs to change.

[corona]

i can understand karl sticking with starting ac...simply to keep jr's head on right. make him keep working hard, continue to reinforce this idea that he has to play well and not force things and play with energy to get minutes...and that he won't be handed anything after a couple months of good/great play. so jr doesn't necessarily have to start in my mind.

but waiting until 2 minutes are left in the 1st quarter and we're down by 8-13 points is just stupid...particularly against good teams, and even more particularly on the road (where its more difficult to come back). jr's clearly been a difference maker in the last 4-7 weeks, and its pretty ridiculous that he's not entering games earlier.

at this point i'm actually pretty excited that atkins returning didn't permanently put jr on the bench. i was sure that as soon as karl got his chance to use atkins/carter/iverson in any sort of rotation pattern, jr's minutes would be over. so george's decision on cutting atkins minutes has been a pleasant surprise to me. now i just wish jr would get at least 30 minutes a night, atkins would get 10-18 depending on if he's stroking his shot or not....and ac would take up the rest as an energy/defensive player.

[noone]

i can understand karl sticking with starting ac...simply to keep jr's head on right. make him keep working hard, continue to reinforce this idea that he has to play well and not force things and play with energy to get minutes...and that he won't be handed anything after a couple months of good/great play. so jr doesn't necessarily have to start in my mind.

I might believe Karl is keeping JR out of the starting lineup to make him keep working hard for his minutes if he ever got extended minutes for playing very well. The only thing that ever happens is he loses minutes when he starts off bad instead of Karl allowing him to try to get into a rhythm.

Just take a look at the Dallas game. JR was playing out of his mind, yet he was still subbed out at the end of the half for Carter the last 3-4 minutes. Seeing that I thought for sure Karl must want him rested to start the second half and play extended minutes. Did that happen? Not a chance. He saw his first minutes with a couple minutes left in the third. To Karl's credit though, JR did get to finish the game. Oh wait, by then it was garbage time, so Carter had his spot on the bench next to the other all stars and JR got to finish the game.

JR coming off the bench so he can earn his minutes is a nice theory, but that's something I'd expect to hear from Karl supporters. There is absolutely nothing that tells me JR wouldn't come out with the same energy whether he was starting or coming off the bench. The problem with him was always playing under control and playing smart. Starting won't change that.

[corona]

i'm certainly not one to argue against jr and for karl...
and i understand your point. there's little reason for jr to not play significantly more minutes, finish each half, come in earlier...etc.
but at 22 years old with an extensive history...i think there's an argument to be made that starting jr could go to his head and he may start taking things for granted.

apparently over the last 2 years that's been the big problem with jr. he'll have a great week, showing up to practices...doing all the right things, and then he won't show up to practice or will revert to unintelligent/selfish player for a couple games.

karl and/or the assistant coaches (grg, dantley, mosley...etc) have gotten this far developing jr with the tough love approach (you're the first to say his play now is significantly better than any other time....that's due to something), might as well keep going for another month while increasing minutes, as opposed to risking a mental setback.

[noone]

karl and/or the assistant coaches (grg, dantley, mosley...etc) have gotten this far developing jr with the tough love approach (you're the first to say his play now is significantly better than any other time....that's due to something), might as well keep going for another month while increasing minutes, as opposed to risking a mental setback.

And I have also always said that the reason he wasn't getting more play time before was because he was out of control. He was driving the lane with reckless abandon. He would dribble up and take bad shots. Make mental mistakes on defense, mainly due to over aggressiveness (out of control...being aggressive is in his nature). Improving on all that has nothing to do with anything except for letting the game come to him. It's a maturation process. I don't see it changing any more regardless of any circumstances. And JR even said that it all changed when he stopped taking all the 'tough love' to heart, being sensitive about it, and actually doing what they said.

You know what you're going to get from Melo and Iverson. Because the remaining games are all important, I don't know how much game time Nene will get to get back into shape and be productive for 20+ minutes. Martin and Camby are already inconsistent offensively. Without JR getting big minutes and producing, this team is setting itself up for another first round exit. I feel putting JR into the starting lineup is a risk that needs to be taken. I do understand what you're saying though, but I've lost all hope in Karl increasing JR's minutes off the bench (seems like you haven't...that's the biggest difference). You just can't get big minutes off off his bench. Why? Because Karl's rotation is already set and he doesn't seem to want to change it. Like I said in another post, they've gotten down big in the first quarter in 4 of the last 6 games. If it still hasn't changed yet, I don't see how anyone can expect it to in the next 10 games. Each game that goes by gives me less hope. I hope he proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Imo you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[corona]

i don't think i'm setting myself up for disappointment. i've lost a lot of faith in karl in re jr, and i'm not really expecting his minutes to get into the 30's off the bench....i just hope it happens, like i hope he does start at some point soon.

that's more an explanation of why karl might not be too eager to make the switch. he even said on his radio show last week that he's not considering starting smith.

i also wouldn't take what jr says to the bank. in training camp they (rmn) wrote a piece on him and quoted him as saying he had changed after the accident and he was more mature and this and that....and a couple weeks later he was spitting on a girl in a club and tearing her dress. after the memphis game marlowe asked him if he liked starting as opposed to coming off the bench....and he said he preferred coming off the bench.

there's no question he needs more minutes. there's no question he needs to be in the game before the deficit grows to 5-8 points (if any at all). there's no question we need him to play great basketball to have a chance against anyone in the playoffs. i'm not arguing any of that.

hoping jr starts and hoping he gets 30mpg off the bench isn't that much different....because unfortunately, we're both sol.

[noone]

My post may have been repetitive because I forgot to delete a chunk (2nd paragraph) that I had rewritten.

But anyways, I didn't know that Karl had said what he did. Now that I do, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I can only hope that JR's minutes increase off the bench because he apparently has no chance to start.

I just hope that in the playoffs the Nuggets don't lose the first two games on the road because they get down early due to Carter not being able to guard someone, and then Karl never makes the adjustment (home games) because he doesn't want to admit his mistake.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see now.

[el loco]

Like I said in my first post, I don't mind AC starting because I don't really think the team needs to be tinkering with the lineup much, but I don't see why AC has to play 9 minutes or more of every quarter (he isn't Stockton or Nash for crying out loud) before Smith comes in. Let AC start but switch his and JR's minutes around, and we should at least see if Atkins has a hot hand or not, if he does let him play some minutes. I don't remember the game, but one night Atkins and Smith were both hitting 3's at a great clip and it was fun to watch because the ball was moving from side to side and we as a team were hitting the open man with ball movement.

[noone]

Last game Carter was great on Nash. If he doesn't show signs of carrying that over, Karl needs to pull him quicker than usual.

[corona]

for once i really want to see karl force nash to guard somebody.
last year he bailed steve out by using blake a ridiculous amount.
this year he's used carter a whole lot (though he's probably our best p&r defender)...

make nash guard iverson or smith. those two should score at will, or at least get into the paint at will before setting guys up for dunks.