What does this team need to get to the next level? ('Ship)

[yungal07]

Health, the thug enforcer PF/C alluded to by TSW, and a well-rounded competittor at PG. The PG needs to know when to shoot and also needs to be a competent defender as well as a distributor.

Add to that coaching that consistently demands good defense rather than shot jacking.

I agree with this except for point guard. I think Gilbert Arenas, when healthy, is one of the best point guards in the NBA. He indeed needs to improve his defense, but he's pretty good at everything else.

You second statement is 100% on point. I'm not sure EJ demands shotjacking (although sometimes it seems like it) but it definitely seems that he doesn't demand good defense, especially when it comes to the "stars." The Wizards currently have the worst defensive stars in the NBA in my opinion.

[miller31time]

Health, the continued defensive coaching/philosophy of Ayers, and enforcers off the bench at both guard and forward.

[JWizmentality]

Better Gamethreads.

[miller31time]

Better Gamethreads.

Nah, I'm done making them for a while. We'll have to get by with others'.

[TheSecretWeapon]

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Interesting. So do you agree that Jamison (nor any of our other bigs) are NOT that guy?

I agree with you and said just as much in the game thread last night. This team is presently soft in the middle. I think it has to do with the perpetual smallball-ish lineups that EJ plays, and also the fact that we really don't have that type of player on the team.

A healthy team would be nice, but it seems as though when the Wizards are healthy, they still suffer from the same deficiencies.

Don't agree with me so quickly. I think they need the thug big in addition to Jamison and the other bigs on the roster. I'm envisioning a Rick Mahorn type who could come off the bench for 20 minutes a night split between PF and C.

I agree with miller about continuing Ayers' defensive philosophy. Well, at least his teaching of Larry Brown's defensive philosophy.

[nate33]

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I think they need the thug big in addition to Jamison and the other bigs on the roster. I'm envisioning a Rick Mahorn type who could come off the bench for 20 minutes a night split between PF and C.

I'm kind of surprised you said this.

I think the days of having "big thugs" are over in the NBA. How many Dale Davis/Antonio Davis/Brian Grant kind of guys are in the league any more? The way I see it, a team can only get away with one unskilled offensive player on the court. Usually, that's the center. If you want an unskilled PF, he better play alongside a skilled center (like Varajeo with Z, or Chuck Hayes with Yao). We don't have a skilled center, so we can't get away with a thug PF.

I do think having a quality PF/C off the bench is the missing link for our team. I just don't think he needs to be a thug. He needs to be a long, lanky, skilled guy with the height and tenacity to grab boards like a center, but the passing and shooting skills of a PF.

I'm hoping Blatche turns out to be that guy in a year or two. I'm a little concerned about his work ethic though. If we can just transplant Pecherov's work ethic into Blatche's body, we'd be set.

Another option would be to trade Blatche for an ideal PF/C. Somebody like McDyess could work I suppose. Last night, I was entertaining the notion of trading Blatche, Etan and the Memphis pick for Collison and $4M in cap space. Do you think Collison is the right type of player?

Another thought would be to trade Blatche for Noah.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I'm using "thug" as a catch-all term to include getting LOTS of rebounds, playing defense, and generally not taking crap off of anyone. Another way of putting it would be to say they need an increase of frontcourt toughness. Real toughness, not the faux toughness Etan has offered in the past. A guy who would quite happily put Lebron on his behind and then not offer a hand to help him up.

I don't care how he's built, and I'd obviously prefer a guy with skills. But I think the team needs more toughness upfront. They have some of that on the wings in Deshawn and Caron. Now they need it from a big.

My hope is similar to yours -- that Blatche could become that guy. Collison might be okay. Noah? Seems more whiny than tough.

[CrankyTodd]

A remote control hoop iris.

[nate33]

I agree that Noah is kind of a stretch. What he is is a big man with a motor and work ethic. I think he could one day become Brendan Haywood with passing skills (but without the absurd standing reach). I guess he's more of a replacement for Haywood than he would be an ideal PF/C off the bench.

If I thought that Blatche was ready to be that ideal PF/C next year, I'd be happy. But I think Blatche is still a few years away. He's just not mentally mature enough. Lately I've been toying with the notion of trading Blatche. If we could find somebody who can do what Blatche does only with more experience and consistency (and presumably, less upside), it might be worth pulling the trigger.

It's hard to find the right guy though.

I think a guy like McDyess wouldn't be enough value in return for Blatche.

Haslem? He isn't big enough to back up the center position.

Kurt Thomas? Too old.

Nenad Krstic? Too injury prone.

Jeff Foster? Not skilled enough to play PF. Probably not enough value for Blatche either.

Varajeo? I don't think he is skilled enough either. I can't picture him alongside Haywood for any length of time.

I'd love Horford, but Atlanta wouldn't trade him for Blatche.

Collison was the best guy I could think of that is conceivably available without being a serious downgrade in talent.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Keep the core together, find or develop (N1 or RM) a deadly, light it up scorer off the bench. Find or develop a combo big man (DMAC?) to deal with opponent's power forwards and... upgrade at coach at the right moment.

EJ has done a terrific job... but, I see him as Doug Collins to Phil Jackson. The Bulls were on the verge, and might have stayed that way, had they not made that risky move.

EJ has done such a solid job establishing professionalism and creating an environment that makes players want to be here, but I'd love to see us make a run at a guy with legit NBA Championship bonafides (The Pat Reilly, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson types), a coach who has won before, who can convince the players that they are aiming for the big trophy, not for the t-shirts.

[JWizmentality]

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Nah, I'm done making them for a while. We'll have to get by with others'.

Who am I gonna snipe at?

[doclinkin]

Aside from the above:

Big Man coach on the level of Randy Ayers/Dave Hopla. Hakeem lessons for Blatche. Basic lowpost skills for Pesh, plus a fully Hoplacized jumper. Strength work for Dmac. Ditto Blatche.

A great offseason for all our young pups. Continued development chemistry and success. Forging a true second-unit shock troop. Reliable.

A tough fierce ugly series with the Traveliers where ultimately timely defense and key hard fouls (Brendan, Brendan, maybe a little Caron; also Blatche) prove the X-factor that solves LeBron. Success reinforces commitment.

More Pete Carill. EDIT -- for Gil especially.

Highpost consultant Big (Sabonis, Bill Walton, Swen Nater).

Chemistry and continuity.

Additions to the roster? Key Championship roleplayers. College, Euro, NBA.

[Ruzious]

There just happens to be a classic thug enforcer in the next draft - the mauler from Memphis - Joey Dorsey. He knows his role and doesn't mess it up by having any real skills - other than rebounding. They say his height is a problem - at 6'9, but his 265 lbs and long arms shut down Hibbert early this season. He's the unsung reason Memphis is the 2nd rated team in the nation. Picture a trim angry Jahidi White with 5 usable fingers per hand.

[yungal07]

Interesting article by Kenny Smith from Yahoo sports. Funny I find this after starting this thread:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

I was fortunate to play on two NBA championship teams, but I

[nate33]

1. Style - Princeton. Check
2. Inside/out - Arenas/Jamison. Questionable
3. Superstar - Arenas, but only when healthy. No
4. Beast - Butler. Check
5. Bench - Daniels, Mason, Songaila, Blatche. Maybe
6. Adversity - Serious injuries. Check
7. Magic Moment - Boston back-to-back wins. Check
8. Chemistry - Check.

We fall short on #2, lack of inside presence. We're kind of iffy on the superstar and the bench too. If Blatche plays like he did in January, then the bench is okay. We don't have a superstar so long as Arenas is only 75%.

Next year, Arenas should be 100% and the bench should be more seasoned. I think we could have 7-1/2 of those 8 criteria. The only remaining question is whether we qualify on the inside presence criterion. We certainly have a defensive inside presence with Haywood. Jamison has been pretty solid on the low block on offense.

The Dallas Mavericks made it to the Finals with no legit inside presence. Detroit won a championship with no legit inside presence. (I don't think Jamison is any worse in the post than Rasheed was.)

[Wiz99]

Guess Kenny Smith doesn't think coaching is important in championship contenders.

[Wiz99]

One of the theories out there is nearly every NBA champion has had at least one all time great player.

San Antonio, check (Duncan, plus Robinson on earlier 'chips)
Miami, check (Shaq)
Detroit, the one exception
Lakers, check (Shaq AND Kobe most recently, Magic and Kareem in the 80s)
Bulls, check (Jordan)
Houston, check (Olajuwon)
Detroit, check (Isiah - stinks as a coach, a lion as a player)
Celtics, check (Bird)
76ers, check (Moses, Dr. J)

That's all the way back to the 1978-79 season.

Anyone here want to argue Gil has attained the same status as Jordan, Dr. J, Magic?

I could argue we need a bruiser in the frontcourt, need to trade AJ, need other role players, need to change the coach... I'll just argue Gil has to grow into the two-way, truly dominant player for the ages he has the skills to be, but hasn't become yet. Learning how to play tenacious defense would be a good start. Toss out the quirky loner gimmick and take on the mantle of team leader would also be welcome.

Our fortunes rise and fall with Gil.

[hands11]

Better animals. Sorry donk but you are a beast of burden.

We need one of those Geico characters. Not that donkeys aren't interesting asses.

I'd post what we need but I think that has already been done about a million times ( 100,000 of the same posts by me ) in 1000 threads.

No new information will be available till we see what we get from GA when he returns which should be shortly.

Till that happens, we just have to hope EJ plays the best line ups and calls enough inside plays.

[hands11]

One of the theories out there is nearly every NBA champion has had at least one all time great player.

San Antonio, check (Duncan, plus Robinson on earlier 'chips)
Miami, check (Shaq)
Detroit, the one exception
Lakers, check (Shaq AND Kobe most recently, Magic and Kareem in the 80s)
Bulls, check (Jordan)
Houston, check (Olajuwon)
Detroit, check (Isiah - stinks as a coach, a lion as a player)
Celtics, check (Bird)
76ers, check (Moses, Dr. J)

That's all the way back to the 1978-79 season.

Anyone here want to argue Gil has attained the same status as Jordan, Dr. J, Magic?

I could argue we need a bruiser in the frontcourt, need to trade AJ, need other role players, need to change the coach... I'll just argue Gil has to grow into the two-way, truly dominant player for the ages he has the skills to be, but hasn't become yet. Learning how to play tenacious defense would be a good start. Toss out the quirky loner gimmick and take on the mantle of team leader would also be welcome.

Our fortunes rise and fall with Gil.

This stuff used to be in my sig

http://www.nbadraft.net/mcchesney001.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/mcchesney002.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/mcchesney003.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/mcchesney004.asp

Once you read it, things become more clear. Mostly, you just do the best you can and enjoy the team you have. The rest is mostly luck and timing.

[keynote]

One of the theories out there is nearly every NBA champion has had at least one all time great player.

San Antonio, check (Duncan, plus Robinson on earlier 'chips)
Miami, check (Shaq)
Detroit, the one exception
Lakers, check (Shaq AND Kobe most recently, Magic and Kareem in the 80s)
Bulls, check (Jordan)
Houston, check (Olajuwon)
Detroit, check (Isiah - stinks as a coach, a lion as a player)
Celtics, check (Bird)
76ers, check (Moses, Dr. J)

That's all the way back to the 1978-79 season.

Anyone here want to argue Gil has attained the same status as Jordan, Dr. J, Magic?

That's a little too circular. The theory states that virtually every championship team had an all-time great; then the media reserves the upper echelon of "all time greats" for those players who won a ring (with very few exceptions). Without those 4 rings, Duncan's career starts to look more like Patrick Ewing's--only Ewing never played with a supporting cast as strong as Duncan's.

I look at the Miami championship team and, while you've generously listed Shaq as the superstar on that roster, it was Wade who was clearly the MVP of that team. After Wade's playoff performance that year, I'd argue that it became acceptable for Wade to be talked about as a future HOFer. But is Wade truly in the class of MJ, Magic, etc.? No--or at least, certainly not yet.

If the Wizards get hot and healthy and craft a sudden run in the playoffs towards a ring (like the Dream's Rockets, coming from the 6th seed, if memory serves), then Arenas might get "all-time great" status thrust upon him as well. But that tends to happen after the rings are won--not before.