OT: Calderon's unselfishness

[ProT]

Nope, no chance the Raptors let Calderon go - especially in light of Ford's injury situation. It's way too risky to go with Ford alone. Now if the Raptors could work a S&T involving Calderon and also land a quality PG either in the draft or through another avenue that would be something to consider.

Raps have said they are bringing Ukic over from Europe. I predict he'll be backing up Calderon and Ford will be shipped out by the start of next season.

[Neapolitan Buck]

Nope, no chance the Raptors let Calderon go - especially in light of Ford's injury situation. It's way too risky to go with Ford alone. Now if the Raptors could work a S&T involving Calderon and also land a quality PG either in the draft or through another avenue that would be something to consider. But I think one of two things happens this summer:

1. Calderon signs for slightly less than what Ford got and the Raptors stick with the Ford/Calderon backcourt which has been quite successful and resulted in plenty of success. If they go that route I think they would figure out ways to get Ford and Calderon on the court together more.

2. Ford is traded.

If I was a betting man at the present time I'd bet on No. 2. I think Ford is the superior player with a vastly higher ceiling but he also comes with considerably more risk. I think the Raptors may need to play it safe and go with Calderon and then try to deal Ford for something they need - like a SF. I could see a Ford to Portland for Outlaw trade being a very good one for both teams.

I totally agree, I know that Jose is going to remain a Raptor, mine was more a dream scenario than a real one.

[Neapolitan Buck]

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Raps have said they are bringing Ukic over from Europe. I predict he'll be backing up Calderon and Ford will be shipped out by the start of next season.

I know well Ukic because he plays in Rome...I agree with your prediction, and I believe Rocco Ukic has the potential to be a solid backup to Jose.

[REDDzone]

Great move by Calderon, the guy seems like all class.

Still don't like him for the Bucks, but good to see a guy without an ego, I'm definitely a fan.

[paulpressey25]

I think Ford is the superior player with a vastly higher ceiling but he also comes with considerably more risk. .

I'm not sure there is a market out there for Ford given his injury risk. Sure, we'd trade Bobby for him but I can't see the Raptors getting anything worthwhile back for him. It would be a salary exchange move, and if you do that, you might as well hang onto TJ since he's a good player.

As for the upside, I'm not sure there is anymore as this point. He's been in Toronto now two-years. He's gotten better with his shooting and is a better player than when he was here. But his body has taken a beating and he is a guy who relies on physical skills.

All that said, I'd send CV/Gadz back to Toronto for Ford.....

[El Duderino]

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I'm not sure there is a market out there for Ford given his injury risk. Sure, we'd trade Bobby for him but I can't see the Raptors getting anything worthwhile back for him. It would be a salary exchange move, and if you do that, you might as well hang onto TJ since he's a good player.

As for the upside, I'm not sure there is anymore as this point. He's been in Toronto now two-years. He's gotten better with his shooting and is a better player than when he was here. But his body has taken a beating and he is a guy who relies on physical skills.

All that said, I'd send CV/Gadz back to Toronto for Ford.....

I don't see both guys being content for years sharing minutes or Ford being content as a backup. Both guys are good enough to start and when you mix in the injury risk of TJ and that the team is 20-12 in games Ford has missed, my guess is the Raptors would prefer to keep Calderon and trade Ford if they can.

It will be interesting to see how that situation shakes out

[europa]

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I'm not sure there is a market out there for Ford given his injury risk. Sure, we'd trade Bobby for him but I can't see the Raptors getting anything worthwhile back for him. It would be a salary exchange move, and if you do that, you might as well hang onto TJ since he's a good player.

As for the upside, I'm not sure there is anymore as this point. He's been in Toronto now two-years. He's gotten better with his shooting and is a better player than when he was here. But his body has taken a beating and he is a guy who relies on physical skills.

All that said, I'd send CV/Gadz back to Toronto for Ford.....

I'm not getting into that in this forum.

As far as his trade value, there's no question it's low. The injury issues are simply far too great at this time to ignore. That said, when healthy and starting he has had a major impact on the Raptors. There were many people around the league who believed he was playing at an All-Star level this season prior to his injury (John Hollinger was one who wrote that he was strongly considering Ford as an All-Star performer at that time). His game has continued to improve greatly the past two seasons. I think the upside is clearly there and I'm confident in saying there are a number of teams who still believe strongly in what Ford can do and what he can become should he remain healthy.

But that last part is the key without question. And that's going to put the Raptors in a tough spot. They have been a very good team with Ford starting and Calderon coming off the bench. I'd hazard a guess and say that played a huge role in the decision to re-insert Ford into the starting lineup last night. Colangelo would be a fool to give Ford away. One team has already made the huge mistake of trading Ford for less than proper value and that GM is currently out of a job. I don't see Colangelo making the same mistake.

Like I said, I think the smart move for the Raptors is to go with Calderon and look to trade Ford. Your team isn't potentially as good since Calderon isn't as talented as Ford and lacks Ford's potential. But Calderon is a strong PG and it's a much safer route to take so it's not like your team will stink without Ford. If a team isn't willing to give the Raptors anything of value for Ford, I would be very surprised if Colangelo traded him. As you correctly pointed out, there isn't a strong market for PGs this summer and even though Calderon is talented there may not be a team that can make a strong bid for him - and I don't see the Raptors foolishly outbidding themselves for Calderon the way the Bucks did for Mo when he had a similar market last summer. So the Raptors could still keep both and not face the question of paying their backup more than their starter.

I don't think that happens, though. I think a team like Portland - which badly needs a standout PG - could make a play for Ford and offer up someone like Outlaw or maybe Webster and include the first-round pick (maybe a swap of firsts). Like I said, I think the Blazers would be a great fit for Ford. A Roy-Oden-Ford-Aldridge foundation could make Portland a legitimate contender overnight.

[DH34Phan]

europa loves him some TJ Ford.

[El Duderino]

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But that last part is the key without question. And that's going to put the Raptors in a tough spot. They have been a very good team with Ford starting and Calderon coming off the bench. I'd hazard a guess and say that played a huge role in the decision to re-insert Ford into the starting lineup last night. Colangelo would be a fool to give Ford away.

The whole Ford/Calderon dynamic is is kinda strange with them this year. The Raptors are 20-12 in games Ford missed via injury.

Yet in games where Calderon starts and Ford is healthy, but coming off the bench, their record is much worse than when Ford doesn't play at all. I don't watch the Raptors ever play so maybe TJ hates coming off the bench and thus it affects his play. Maybe it also affects Calderon's play also since the he did so well when he played 35mpg.

This very well could be a situation where you have two guys who both want to start and no matter what, for the good of the team, they have to choose one. Given Calderon doesn't have health issues and the team was 8 games over .500 with just him playing, the choice would seem to have to be more of the Calderon side.

I know if i was Calderon though, no way would i accept a backup role next year given how well he and the team played while Ford has been out. I'd take a one year deal elsewhere and then cash in the following season if nobody had big enough cap room before i'd sign contract to be a backup. When he got starter minutes, he averaged around 14.5/10 assists per game on 55% shooting and just a shade over 2 turnovers per game while the team went 20-12. Then again, i'm not him and maybe he's ok with being a backup so long as the Raptors pay him well.

[Chuck Diesel]

People are starting to think it's trendy to knock Dave Babcock these days, but remember he and Jacito Castillo were responsible for the Bucks being the first NBA team to offer Calderon a contract a few years ago.

[paulpressey25]

europa loves him some TJ Ford.

Yes he does....and I think TJ is damn near untradeable right now for anything of value given that most teams would not want to part with anything of value for an undersized guy who you can't count on and might be out of the league with his next fall. Plus you have to make the cap work since TJ's making $8mm next season and $25mm more in total.

I'm sure a bunch of PG desperate teams would be glad to take a flyer on him......but only if it doesn't cost anything. i.e. you are taking on $25mm of cap hit if he can't play. So you again have to dump a bad contract on the Raptors to make it work. Interestingly enough, the best trade partner is the Gadz/CV deal if you think about it.....or CV/Simmons. And I'd actually do those deals. And could justify them from the perspective of both teams.

But there is no way Herb and Ron are taking TJ back given his injury and mood issues.

[europa]

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The whole Ford/Calderon dynamic is is kinda strange with them this year. The Raptors are 20-12 in games Ford missed via injury.

Yet in games where Calderon starts and Ford is healthy, but coming off the bench, their record is much worse than when Ford doesn't play at all. I don't watch the Raptors ever play so maybe TJ hates coming off the bench and thus it affects his play. Maybe it also affects Calderon's play also since the he did so well when he played 35mpg.

I've watched the Raptors plenty and there's no question they are a better team with Ford starting and Calderon coming off the bench. Ford's presence and production has been a huge element in their improvement since he arrived. Calderon's improvement has been big as well and he truly has emerged as a legitimate Top 10 NBA PG. I can't recall the last time a team had two quality starting PGs at the same time - maybe Cleveland when they had Price and Brandon? Of course, Price was a perennial All-Star and neither Ford nor Calderon have accomplished that. But what we're seeing with Toronto hasn't happened very often - at least in recent memory.

I also think it's clear Ford didn't adapt well to the bench role. His play was quite poor coming off the bench. But he goes back into the starting lineup and immediately plays extremely well and the Raptors pull off one of their biggest victories of the season. I don't think that's a coincidence. That's why I think it's a safe bet to assume the Raptors internally realized that if they are going to get the best out of Ford (and that's critical if they want to make a run deep into the playoffs) they need him in the starting lineup. Ford starting with Calderon the backup has worked extremely well; Calderon starting with Ford the backup was a failure and the team was playing poorly. It really wasn't a difficult decision when you look at it.

I think you do have two PGs who both deserve to start but only one of them can in Toronto. Like I've been saying, I think the prudent move is to go with Calderon and look to deal Ford even though Ford is the superior talent. But with Ford's value so low due to his injury situation the Raptors may not be able to get quality back for him. If they can't, I think they would be making a huge mistake to just give him away. I don't think Colangelo will make that mistake.

I agree that situation is going to be one of the most interesting to watch in the coming off-season.

And yea DH34Phan, I do like Ford a lot. My favorite position to watch is PG and I love watching talented PGs who make their teams better. Like I said in your thread last night, there's nothing I enjoy watching more as a basketball fan than a PG who really knows how to make his team better.

[WEFFPIM]

Word has it that TJ Ford has been far from a point guard who has made that team better in recent months.

As for the actual point of this thread, you rarely see someone give up their starting job to help out another teammate in any sport nowadays, not just basketball. Good to see.

[El Duderino]

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I think you do have two PGs who both deserve to start but only one of them can in Toronto. Like I've been saying, I think the prudent move is to go with Calderon and look to deal Ford even though Ford is the superior talent. But with Ford's value so low due to his injury situation the Raptors may not be able to get quality back for him. If they can't, I think they would be making a huge mistake to just give him away. I don't think Colangelo will make that mistake.

A lot could ride on Calderon. If he tells Colangelo that he won't come back next year if it's as a backup, then Colangelo has to pick one of the two. If his choice is Calderon, he's going to have to trade Ford even if it's not for the value back in return he hoped for.

With Calderon set to be an unrestricted free agent, Colangelo risks losing Jose for nothing unless he could work a sign and trade.

If i was putting myself in Calderon's shoes, i'd tell Colangelo that i'll resign with Toronto, but only if i'm promised the starting gig. If he tells me yes that i'm his choice of the two PG's, but he comes back and says, hey i'm not getting fair offers for TJ, my response would be that then i'll shop my services elsewhere because i'm not backing up anyone. Trade TJ or i'll find a team who wants me as their starter.

The way i see it, Colangelo likely has to pick which guy he wants to be the PG the next 3-5 years and then do what it takes to make that happen. If it's TJ, then hope/pray nobody can sign Calderon outright and he he can get something decent in return via a sign/trade for Calderon because a wanting team lacks the cap room to pay Jose. If Colangelo prefers Calderon, he'll have to take whatever best offer he gets for TJ or strongly risk losing his first choice in Calderon.